Clarence Thomas and the Billionaire

[Whyayeman]

I'm saying....

1. These aren't crimes. There's literally no evidence of any crime or ethical violation presented in these articles.

2. Nobody on the left actually cares about ethics. We have evidence actual crimes....they don't appear to be investigated at all.

Nobody has claimed that Thomas has committed crimes. It is a matter of ethics. Not declaring these massive freebies leaves Thomas open to suspicion of partiality towards his benefactors known political affiliation.

The second statement is patently wrong. 'Nobody on the left'? Impossible to demonstrate and certainly untrue. We are (still) not discussing crimes.

 

[DaisyDay]

Clarence Thomas responds to accusations about undisclosed gifts amid outcry - Washington Examiner

Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas defended not disclosing that he accepted "luxury trips" and other gifts from a Republican megadonor in a statement Friday. The Supreme Court justice said in a joint statement with wife Ginni Thomas, a prominent conservative activist, that he "was advised"...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

Apparently even his colleagues advised him that he wasn't required to disclose these vacations as gifts. He went on some vacations with friends....and his accusers have known about this for 25 years.

Apparently, Thomas himself declares that his colleagues, names and circumstances unrevealed, told him not to disclose lavish vacations, expensive gifts and luxury travel from a political activist. He accepted travel and vacation several times a year, every year, from Mr. Crow. How do you figure that the journalists, Joshua Kaplan, Justin Elliott and Alex Mierjeski, at Pro Publica knew about this for 25 years? As for other "accusers" how would they have known since it was undisclosed?

I'm not sure you'd be able to spot a distraction if it was added to the headline of the article you were reading....
**Warning! This article is meant to distract you from the ongoing failure and constant corruption of the current administration!**
It's weird how the left completely lose track of concepts like "whataboutism". I'm not saying that the crimes others have been engaged in somehow justify the crimes Thomas is being accused of....

Snark - you keep talking about "crimes" but that isn't the issue here as you know but ignore.

I'm saying....
1. These aren't crimes. There's literally no evidence of any crime or ethical violation presented in these articles.

I see what you did there! Yes, these aren't crimes, but no, this could be an ethical violation. How clever to bundle the two distinct issues together as if to talk about one is to talk about the other.

2. Nobody on the left actually cares about ethics.

Sanctimonious crap. Just because you don't care, that doesn't mean that other people don't.

We have evidence actual crimes....they don't appear to be investigated at all.

Let's derail this thread again!

I've been asking for years now what the left supposedly stands for.

I know - that is so dumb because you insist that anyone who considers themself on the left of any issue, or most issues, has to adhere to some defined dogma as if they had sworn fealty. However, you seem to have exempted yourself from political definition.

 

[wing2000]

The complete disregard of ethical violations that don't serve their political narrative.

If someone is going to claim to care about ethics....they have to have a value or principle that they hold regardless of political convenience. I've been asking for years now what the left supposedly stands for. I even asked someone on this thread who insisted that he participates in multiple political forums/boards and it's only the left that's ethical....and he too couldn't come up with a single value or principle.

Yes, for some time you have inserted your self defined narrative of "the left" into various threads....it's quite the straw man. Respond to what people write here....

 

[SimplyMe]

It was rather recent. It doesn't require disclosure to the public. It doesn't even require full disclosure to members of Congress....information can be redacted or withheld if important to the investigation.

The problem is though, that this is essentially, the Biden Administration investigating itself without any disclosure. I read the 12 page summary of the Afghanistan exit. I don't have any confidence in the DOJ or FBI to investigate their boss. I have even less confidence when we know....

1. They're trying to prosecute a former president on similar grounds.
2. Plenty of information about #1 was leaked to left wing media outlets.

You keep having it explained that it isn't the same, yet completely ignore it. The grounds aren't similar, neither are being prosecuted for having classified documents. Both have had Special Prosecutors appointed to oversee their investigations. The key difference being, one was informed to return documents, when they refused a court order was issued -- and they defied the court order. Yes, there may be charges stemming from failure to return the documents in violation of a court order.

As for the Special Prosecutor investigating Biden -- as I previously explained -- he was a Trump appointee to the DoJ who LEFT WHEN TRUMP LEFT OFFICE (forgive me for the shouting but you either didn't notice or "forgot" when I told you this previously). He was working at a private law firm when AG Garland appointed him to oversee the investigation into the keeping and storage of documents by Pres. Biden.

Several details about the general content of several classified docs was leaked to the public.

Again, no. The "details," both text and the picture, were part of a DoJ court filing. The filing was in response to former Pres. Trump's suing to get a Special Master. You can see it here, the photo is Attachment F. It was leaked to the press or the public.

Ok....easy way to settle this....just give me 3 dates. 1. The date Biden’s lawyers found classified docs in an office in whatever the initial university was. 2. The date those docs were turned over to NARA. 3. The date the public was informed.

Nov 2 -- The documents are discovered in Biden's office.
Nov 3 -- The documents are removed by NARA in the morning
Nov 4 -- The DoJ is notified of classified documents being found in Biden's office by NARA's Inspector General, after he reviewed the documents NARA had picked up.
Nov 14 -- A Trump appointee, John R. Lausch, is named to investigate the documents and to, “the possible unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or other records.”
Jan 5 -- Laush briefs Garland and recommends the appointment of a Special Prosecutor.
Jan 9 -- CBS breaks the story (date the public was informed).
Jan 11 -- Classified documents are found at Biden's home (in the garage)
Jan 12 -- Garland announces the appointment of Robert Hur as a Special Prosecutor to investigate Biden and the classified documents. As I've stated above (and previously), Hur is a former DoJ prosecutor that was appointed by Trump and that resigned when Trump left office, he was working in a private practice when appointed by Garland to become a Special Prosecutor.

Did I give you enough dates in the timeline? I think I've shown that plenty occurred, including the documents being immediately being returned.

Oh I'm sure they were. Once classified docs were found....and the public informed....no point in keeping it open anymore. I can understand why you might be willing to stretch the limits of reason to believe that the decision to close the office was completely unrelated to the almost certainly of being investigated after the midterms....

The decision to close the office was unrelated to the midterms. It was because Pres. Biden, as the President, no longer worked at the University of Pennsylvania -- he had no further need of the office.

But I can't possibly imagine how you explain the fact that Biden sent his lawyers to pack up his stuff....but didn't know he had any illegal docs in the office. That's like telling your heart surgeon to act as your chauffeur.

I can think of a few ways. My best guess is that, since they were papers from his time as Vice President, he wanted his lawyers to review them to see what should be made public (likely in his Presidential library) and what was solely personal and that he would not shared (such as some of the private arrangements of his son Beau's funeral.

That is mere speculation but is a valid reason why his lawyers would be "moving them" -- in truth reviewing them so they could tell the movers where the papers should be taken. Regardless, that sounds like a great question for the Special Prosecutor to ask, as well as any Congressional Investigations.

The obvious answer is that he was fully aware of the classified documents and his attorneys provide the excuse of "attorney-client" privilege that would prevent them from disclosing anything "found".

No, that is your biased mind refusing to believe there can be any valid reasons.

Cool cool....how's that going? Any progress? Any updates?

No, much like the Mueller Investigation, it is ongoing and there have been no public updates. I'm guessing when the Special Prosecutor finishes, we'll be able to see his report.

Ok....well those 3 dates ought to clear that up. Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

You have those dates above, hope it is clear for you. While not released to the public, there was in investigation started well before the news became public.

Probably because they didn't care....and preventing Pence from running for office isn't a priority. Again, these aren't even new issues.

Or maybe, "the Left" sees the difference between turning over documents immediately when found as compared to not turning them over even after there is a court order requiring the return of the documents.

I don't recall photos including details of content.

Again, it is Attachment F of the filing, which is linked above.

What exactly is he charged with in the court filing anyway?

Nothing -- again, this was when former Pres. Trump sued to get a Special Master appointed to keep the FBI and DoJ from examining the documents.

Well let's assume for a moment not only do you care about ethics as you've said....but you can also imagine a totally valid reason to pay some very expensive lawyers to act as movers.....and subsequently believe they just happened upon classified docs, then again, then the feds found some, and so on....

If you genuinely believe this guy is that bad at remembering where he put stuff, that 1800+ pages and 400 gigs of data may contain half the nation's secrets. Better check and make sure.

I think it has been shown that your information is wrong.

Right...he wasn't in violation as president. Bringing charges for anything after he was president seems pretty risky considering it's basically the same crime Biden is guilty of.

Again, if Biden was defying a court order requiring him to return the documents, then it would be the same. Since they were found and turned over immediately, it is not the same.

What? Boxed up? You think that's the issue?



Wow....ok. I think I'm starting to get the picture.




No but it's a pretty good guess.

It is? It would likely be a more honest assessment if you could look neutrally at the evidence, and not through partisan colored glasses.

No. It's not. Pence is a career politician. He understands how this works.



Lol you say that with the confidence of someone who has the laptop.

No, I say that because various Republicans have had "the laptop" (at least the information from the laptop) for 4 years now. Giuliani had it, it's been put into the Congressional Record by Matt Gaetz, etc. And that is beyond Trump's DoJ having it, etc. If there were the "bombshells" that right-wing media keep trying to claim, they'd have been plastered on the news by now. Instead, both Fox News and the Wall Street Journal refused to run the story because they claimed there was no story.

I recall Tucker Carlson having Bobulinsky on and getting all the material, that allegedly proved how involved Biden was. Carlson was very excited by the things Bobulinsky told him and looked forward to seeing the documents. The day after Carlson got the documents, the show when he claimed he would lay all the corruption out for everyone to see, Tucker Carlson instead says that he knows Hunter Biden and that he doesn't want to pile on -- they were once neighbors and Hunter is a nice guy but one that has issues and he doesn't want to pile on. I think that alone shows that the "bombshell" isn't there.

Let's just start with the obvious, anything they can get Hunter on...he can be pardoned for. It's a waste of time. He might actually be dumb enough to implicate his father....but most likely, he'll plead the 5th, go to jail, receive pardon....and go home.

Anything worth pursuing would have to be worth impeachment. I don't know if you've noticed, but even when you're able to convince 50% of the nation....it's not a sure thing. Impeachment is difficult.

Personally, I'd rather see it all now. If Biden has broken the law, let's get him out of office. I have no issues with holding him accountable if he is guilty.

I would suggest you wait until election year 2024. Everything they know, and can prove, will be thrown at Biden and the left in general. I don't think that Elon Musk is willing to play defense for the Dems the way the old Twitter execs did. If they manage to get a Republican in....Biden and his son may be in serious trouble.

You don't think Elon Musk would keep the porn pictures of Hunter Biden off Twitter? I think you also need to review the evidence, as the Trump administration also requesting Twitter to remove stories -- such as the claims of a whistleblower -- off of Twitter. Twitter appears to have been relatively equal in terms of the requests they honored, despite Republican claims to the contrary.

Another poster said something similar but the author of that email didn't say he wasn't talking about Biden.

While technically correct, it ignores what the message states. You can make fun of the author for claiming "he wasn't aware" of a role for Joe Biden in the deal, but it does make clear that if he didn't realize Joe was a part of it, then Joe wouldn't be the "Big Guy" he's referring to. Or are you trying to say he got into a deal where a significant money was going to an unnamed "Big Guy"? I think that claim is beyond what any reasonable person would accept being true.

We gave a billion dollars to the Ukraine under Obama.

Yes, we responded with aid to Ukraine after they had Russian troops in their country (in the Donbass with rebel insurgents) and had stolen Crimea. Trump also gave aid to Ukraine once he was President -- and when he did he mocked the aid Obama gave. I think it would be very difficult that Obama gave aid to Ukraine because of Hunter.

Build a hotel?

Yes, build a hotel -- which included negotiations with top Russian officials, with allegedly plans for "giving" Putin an apartment in the top floor.

Look, the claims of the "Big Guy" wouldn't indicate any laws were broken. The two are actually not that different than what you are trying to claim. While both were legal, particularly while running for President, it might indicate how a President might be influenced due to those deals -- and, if Joe is the "Big Guy" -- it would show both lied about it.

I honestly didn't realize how uninformed you are.

Odd, then, that I'm the one that keeps correcting you on the misinformation you have and the things you do not know -- such as the above dates, the fact the "lead" was not a leak but a required court filing, etc.

Apparently, you think that it's normal to send your lawyers to pack up an office like a moving company...and how much per hour do you think those lawyers make? Hundreds? Thousands?

It's a story so obviously false I'd feel insulted if i voted for him and they didn't even have the courtesy to come up with a good lie. The only lie that's worse, is the one about the "staffers" throwing classified docs into boxes excuse I hadn't heard until you started talking about it. I had to look it up. It's like he's some 22yo getting kicked out of his college dorm unexpectedly lol.

Again, I'll agree the question should be asked but I gave you at least one possible scenario as to why his lawyers may have been examining the documents. If you want a second, it is because some of Biden's staffers thought it was reckless of Biden to state on 60 Minutes, about the Trump documents, “How anyone could be that irresponsible?” So the staffers wanted Biden's VP documents examined to be sure there were no Classified documents that would embarrass them, so they sent the lawyers. There are plenty of reasons -- just that when you blinded by your partisan politics you can't think of any.

Here's a hint....

Biden knew allllll the way back in 2012 he was leaving in 2016. The idea that classified docs are just getting chucked into boxes is pure lies. It's nonsense. That's not how they go out the door....that's not why they go out the door. Again, it's a lie so obvious it's insulting.

Tell me, have you worked in any type of executive job -- one where you had a secretary and other staff? You do realize that top executives often don't even clean up their own desk, if they get called away or decide to call it a night, the secretary is often the one that puts documents away at night and cleans up the desk. So, if he was looking at a classified document, it may have accidentally gotten stuck behind another, non-classified, document on the desk. The secretary, not noticing, puts both in the file where the top file belongs -- not realizing he/she stuck the classified document in the unclassified file.

The mistake isn't discovered and, when it is time to move out, staffers pull the information from the files into boxes. They don't examine every document, they go through and the files marked "personal" are boxed and sent to the politician's home. Any files categorized as "work" are sent to NARA. It is very easy for files to be in the wrong spot and sent to the wrong location. It is why NARA initially went to Trump's office and told them they were missing Presidential records and if he would please return them. They eventually even got some of the records from Trump; but they found not all of the requested documents were in the shipment and only then did they contact the DoJ for help in retrieving the documents. It is only after the DoJ was stonewalled that they went to the courts and got an order for the documents to be returned, etc.

Did Trump kill any US citizens without a trial? I'm certain Trump is guilty of something....possibly election tampering. I know he went forward on a couple of raids that went sideways.

Obama killed US citizens without any due process. Am I upset about it? No. Do I think he should be in jail? Nope. I don't have these naive ideas about how our government works. I understand he probably had good evidence and frankly, they were a problem. Trials were a waste of time.

It's very possible but I doubt we'll know anytime soon. We do know that Pres. Trump allowed a foreign country to kill a US Citizen.

Well he did end the war in Afghanistan. I don't know who you think was going to keep them in prison once we left.

Yes, he ended the war in Afghanistan without including the Afghan government in the negotiations and let 5,000 Taliban fighters out immediately, not waiting until we had pulled out. Sounds like a recipe of disaster for the President who pulls the troops out. But that is off topic (as most of this is) so enough said.

 

[SimplyMe]

My response continued from the previous post:

True.





Uh huh.




Who did they go to court against lol?

My fault, the case was actually Judicial Watch V. NARA, to force NARA to retrieve the tapes. The judge ruled that the tapes were, in fact, personal records and not Presidential Records, so NARA had no right to claim them.

Tapes of what?

The were tapes of interviews of Clinton by a historian, for a book to be written after Clinton's presidency ended. As they tapes were no used in running the government, but instead private interviews about what he did and why, it is clearly not "Presidential Records."

The Presidential Records Act gives presidents discretion over which materials they want to turn in.

Yes,and no. Again, former Pres. Trump was free to argue to the court, when the DoJ sought to require him to turn over documents, that they were private documents and not Presidential Records. I think he might have had a hard time making the case on some of the documents, such as letters between him and foreign heads of state. It seems Trump knew, though, that they were actually Presidential Records since he's never actually tried to claim that in court.

Ok.



Indeed.




Well I'm certain of one thing....

That would be dynamite evidence to use against Trump to throw him in jail for the rest of his life. Instead, this administration seems more interested in pursuing statements that probably won't even come close to criminality.....and the ability to convince a jury that despite politicians doing so in the past (and the courts deciding that paying off a mistress isn't a campaign donation) Trump is somehow guilty of filing the wrong forms.

Great, you have the proof of that, right? Yes, it looks bad but -- as you point out -- it was Trump's DoJ. If Trump did order it, why would his DoJ provide evidence (or even preserve any evidence that could connect back to Trump).

You'd have to be able to explain what white supremacy is....on a thread about a black conservative Justice lol.

Why? Are you denying that some self-avowed White Nationalists that are Republican actually aren't? I'm just not trying to claim they actually represent "The Right" -- by contrast to you taking extreme individuals/groups who claim to be Democrats as being representative of everyone on "The Left." As I said, it is little more than a straw man tactic.

My point was that you don't really care about ethics.

Not sure how you can claim that, not knowing who I am or what I believe. I do happen to know you are wrong.

You mean the speculation of his ethical violations. I'm not aware of any evidence provided that he either profited from the sale of property or that his yacht ride must be accounted for.

The rules are pretty clear, Thomas did violate them. Now, you can claim he got bad advice from the unnamed individuals who he claimed told him he didn't need to but it doesn't mean the rules weren't violated.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Nobody has claimed that Thomas has committed crimes.

Oh good.

It is a matter of ethics.

I'll pretend this is true for a moment.

Not declaring these massive freebies leaves Thomas open to suspicion of partiality towards his benefactors known political affiliation.

According to the ethical obligations of the SCOTUS, these aren't things he's required to report.

The second statement is patently wrong. 'Nobody on the left'?

As far as I can tell.

Impossible to demonstrate and certainly untrue. We are (still) not discussing crimes.

I've been asking anyone on the left for a value or principle from which they can derive an ethical statement....that they wouldn't immediately abandon should the need arise.

 

[DaisyDay]

Here's a hint....

Biden knew allllll the way back in 2012 he was leaving in 2016.

No, he didn't. In 2012, he was planning on succeeding Obama, but then, in 2015, his oldest son tragically died and he didn't have the heart right then to run.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yes, for some time you have inserted your self defined narrative of "the left" into various threads....it's quite the straw man. Respond to what people write here....

That was written here.

 

[Ana the Ist]

You keep having it explained that it isn't the same, yet completely ignore it.

That's because they literally committed the same crime. Mishandling classified information.

The grounds aren't similar, neither are being prosecuted for having classified documents. Both have had Special Prosecutors appointed to oversee their investigations. The key difference being, one was informed to return documents, when they refused a court order was issued -- and they defied the court order.

One was informed...Biden wasn't. Odd despite all those years passing by that NARA didn't notice documents missing.

Yes, there may be charges stemming from failure to return the documents in violation of a court order.

As for the Special Prosecutor investigating Biden -- as I previously explained -- he was a Trump appointee to the DoJ who LEFT WHEN TRUMP LEFT OFFICE (forgive me for the shouting but you either didn't notice or "forgot" when I told you this previously). He was working at a private law firm when AG Garland appointed him to oversee the investigation into the keeping and storage of documents by Pres. Biden.

I got that detail....I don't know why you think it matters.

Again, no. The "details," both text and the picture, were part of a DoJ court filing. The filing was in response to former Pres. Trump's suing to get a Special Master. You can see it here, the photo is Attachment F. It was leaked to the press or the public.



Nov 2 -- The documents are discovered in Biden's office.
Nov 3 -- The documents are removed by NARA in the morning
Nov 4 -- The DoJ is notified of classified documents being found in Biden's office by NARA's Inspector General, after he reviewed the documents NARA had picked up.
Nov 14 -- A Trump appointee, John R. Lausch, is named to investigate the documents and to, “the possible unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or other records.”
Jan 5 -- Laush briefs Garland and recommends the appointment of a Special Prosecutor.
Jan 9 -- CBS breaks the story (date the public was informed).
Jan 11 -- Classified documents are found at Biden's home (in the garage)
Jan 12 -- Garland announces the appointment of Robert Hur as a Special Prosecutor to investigate Biden and the classified documents. As I've stated above (and previously), Hur is a former DoJ prosecutor that was appointed by Trump and that resigned when Trump left office, he was working in a private practice when appointed by Garland to become a Special Prosecutor.

Did I give you enough dates in the timeline? I think I've shown that plenty occurred, including the documents being immediately being returned.

Yes, you did.

National Archives says it retrieved nine boxes of Biden records from ex-personal attorney's Boston office

The acting archivist of the U.S. told two GOP senators that the nine boxes were retrieved in early November.

www.cbsnews.com

"Debra Steidel Wall, acting archivist of the U.S., revealed that the Archives was informed that Mr. Biden's personal attorneys began their review of materials stored at the Penn Biden Center in October, which is earlier than was previously known. Archives staff picked up the nine boxes of Mr. Biden's vice presidential records from Moore's office on Nov. 9, at the request of the Justice Department, Wall said."





That's October. His lawyers began going through his classified docs in October. They moved 9 boxes of who knows what to his lawyer's office....we don't know how long they went through them...

Then they contacted the DOJ. Then turned over 9 boxes (not a few documents)....from the lawyer's office.

The decision to close the office was unrelated to the midterms. It was because Pres. Biden, as the President, no longer worked at the University of Pennsylvania -- he had no further need of the office.

Yeah...he had been president for 2 years, right? You honestly believe that? Do you honestly believe that his lawyer just happened to be packing up Biden's office....stumbled across a classified doc....and immediately called the DOJ? Or do you think he was in there a month earlier, pulled out 9 boxes of Biden’s stuff, then later NARA stops by to pick up everything?

Those are wildly different stories.

In one, Joe's cooperating immediately over the discovery of maybe a couple dozen or so docs. In the other story, the one NARA gives to Republican investigators....Joe's lawyer us cleaning up his dirt, and the DOJ and NARA don't seem to care that he had 9 boxes of docs at this location....

I can certainly understand why you might believe the first story....this second one doesn't even highlight the fact that the first story is a complete lie.

There's no real investigation of Biden happening....and not because he complied immediately nor is it because he forgot where he kept all his secrets.

I can think of a few ways. My best guess is that, since they were papers from his time as Vice President,

Well he either forgot what was there or he didn't.

he wanted his lawyers to review them to see what should be made public (likely in his Presidential library) and what was solely personal and that he would not shared (such as some of the private arrangements of his son Beau's funeral.

That is mere speculation but is a valid reason why his lawyers would be "moving them" -- in truth reviewing them so they could tell the movers where the papers should be taken. Regardless, that sounds like a great question for the Special Prosecutor to ask, as well as any Congressional Investigations.

Lol because that's what he expected to see at his private "think tank" ....private funeral arrangements, documents relating to his duties as a VP, etc.

No, that is your biased mind refusing to believe there can be any valid reasons.

You're kidding yourself here...not me.

No, much like the Mueller Investigation, it is ongoing and there have been no public updates. I'm guessing when the Special Prosecutor finishes, we'll be able to see his report.

I wouldn't hold your breath.

You have those dates above, hope it is clear for you. While not released to the public, there was in investigation started well before the news became public.

Those dates and the initial picture given to the public is completely different from the one given by NARA.

Or maybe, "the Left" sees the difference between turning over documents immediately when found as compared to not turning them over even after there is a court order requiring the return of the documents.

NARA didn't notice documents missing for at least 6 years. Yet, when Trump left, they begin requesting them in less than 6 months.

Again, it is Attachment F of the filing, which is linked above.

I'll take a peek.

Nothing -- again, this was when former Pres. Trump sued to get a Special Master appointed to keep the FBI and DoJ from examining the documents.



I think it has been shown that your information is wrong.

Lol certainly one of us has the wrong info.

Again, if Biden was defying a court order requiring him to return the documents, then it would be the same. Since they were found and turned over immediately, it is not the same.

Why would there be a court order? They apparently didn't know 9 boxes of docs were missing for 6 years. Either that's a big oopsie or NARA was just another attempt to get something on Trump.

It is? It would likely be a more honest assessment if you could look neutrally at the evidence, and not through partisan colored glasses.

Well let's see...

1. You were lied to. You believe that Biden lawyers immediately contacted when in reality, it appears the lawyer collected any docs, went through them, told DOJ....who didn't care....and said to turn them over to NARA. Any half-hearted attempt at a real investigation was made later.

2. For all your accusations of partisanship you failed to realize I've never disagreed that Trump possessed classified documents. Oddly, you don't seem to consider it possible Trump wanted to sort through his documents to separate the personal from the classified. It's not as if he had 6 years.

No, I say that because various Republicans have had "the laptop" (at least the information from the laptop) for 4 years now.

3 years really but who's counting?

Giuliani had it, it's been put into the Congressional Record by Matt Gaetz, etc. And that is beyond Trump's DoJ having it, etc.

You say this as if they were working for Trump. He told the FBI to investigate. The fact that they quietly sat on it and squashed the story for a year says that perhaps his DOJ wasn't working for him.

If there were the "bombshells" that right-wing media keep trying to claim, they'd have been plastered on the news by now.

Why? What could be done with them?

Instead, both Fox News and the Wall Street Journal refused to run the story because they claimed there was no story.

Refused to run what story?

I recall Tucker Carlson having Bobulinsky on and getting all the material, that allegedly proved how involved Biden was. Carlson was very excited by the things Bobulinsky told him and looked forward to seeing the documents. The day after Carlson got the documents, the show when he claimed he would lay all the corruption out for everyone to see, Tucker Carlson instead says that he knows Hunter Biden and that he doesn't want to pile on -- they were once neighbors and Hunter is a nice guy but one that has issues and he doesn't want to pile on. I think that alone shows that the "bombshell" isn't there.

It's either something they'll wait until election time to drop....or not at all.

Personally, I'd rather see it all now. If Biden has broken the law, let's get him out of office.

I don't see that happening. I don't think anyone wants Kamala in his place even if it could happen.

I have no issues with holding him accountable if he is guilty.



You don't think Elon Musk would keep the inappropriate content pictures of Hunter Biden off Twitter? I think you also need to review the evidence, as the Trump administration also requesting Twitter to remove stories -- such as the claims of a whistleblower -- off of Twitter. Twitter appears to have been relatively equal in terms of the requests they honored, despite Republican claims to the contrary.

Why would the FBI suggest that the New York Post story was Russian misinformation if they already had Hunter's laptop and knew it wasn't?

While technically correct, it ignores what the message states.

Technically correct is the point of the message. You can read whatever you want into it....he doesn't deny or confirm anything.

Yes, we responded with aid to Ukraine after they had Russian troops in their country (in the Donbass with rebel insurgents) and had stolen Crimea. Trump also gave aid to Ukraine once he was President -- and when he did he mocked the aid Obama gave. I think it would be very difficult that Obama gave aid to Ukraine because of Hunter.

Hard to say for certain.

Yes, build a hotel -- which included negotiations with top Russian officials, with allegedly plans for "giving" Putin an apartment in the top floor.

Shocking.

Look, the claims of the "Big Guy" wouldn't indicate any laws were broken. The two are actually not that different than what you are trying to claim. While both were legal, particularly while running for President, it might indicate how a President might be influenced due to those deals -- and, if Joe is the "Big Guy" -- it would show both lied about it.

You happen to know the date on those emails?

Odd, then, that I'm the one that keeps correcting you on the misinformation you have and the things you do not know -- such as the above dates, the fact the "lead" was not a leak but a required court filing, etc.

Yeah....I'm mistaken lol.

Again, I'll agree the question should be asked but I gave you at least one possible scenario as to why his lawyers may have been examining the documents. If you want a second, it is because some of Biden's staffers thought it was reckless of Biden to state on 60 Minutes, about the Trump documents, “How anyone could be that irresponsible?” So the staffers wanted Biden's VP documents examined to be sure there were no Classified documents that would embarrass them, so they sent the lawyers. There are plenty of reasons -- just that when you blinded by your partisan politics you can't think of any.

That's gotta be it....lol nothing to do with Republicans being able to order investigations.

Tell me, have you worked in any type of executive job

Nope...just work in the federal government. Do tell me how it works...

-- one where you had a secretary and other staff? You do realize that top executives often don't even clean up their own desk, if they get called away or decide to call it a night, the secretary is often the one that puts documents away at night and cleans up the desk. So, if he was looking at a classified document, it may have accidentally gotten stuck behind another, non-classified, document on the desk. The secretary, not noticing, puts both in the file where the top file belongs -- not realizing he/she stuck the classified document in the unclassified file.

The mistake isn't discovered and, when it is time to move out, staffers pull the information from the files into boxes. They don't examine every document, they go through and the files marked "personal" are boxed and sent to the politician's home. Any files categorized as "work" are sent to NARA. It is very easy for files to be in the wrong spot and sent to the wrong location. It is why NARA initially went to Trump's office and told them they were missing Presidential records and if he would please return them. They eventually even got some of the records from Trump; but they found not all of the requested documents were in the shipment and only then did they contact the DoJ for help in retrieving the documents. It is only after the DoJ was stonewalled that they went to the courts and got an order for the documents to be returned, etc.

That's a wild imagination you have.

It's very possible but I doubt we'll know anytime soon. We do know that Pres. Trump allowed a foreign country to kill a US Citizen.

Who is that? Kashoggi?

Yes, he ended the war in Afghanistan without including the Afghan government

What Afghan government?

in the negotiations and let 5,000 Taliban fighters out immediately, not waiting until we had pulled out.

You have no idea what happened there, do you?

Sounds like a recipe of disaster for the President who pulls the troops out. But that is off topic (as most of this is) so enough said.

Sounds like a common theme...Biden fails, Trump's fault.

Let me ask you something....

If NARA doesn't even notice Biden's docs are missing for 6 years....is it really about compliance?

If Biden's lawyer calls the DOJ, and tells them he has 9 boxes of docs...including classified materials he doesn't have a clearance for....and the DOJ says "just call up NARA and schedule a time to turn them over"....is it really about national security?

This DOJ seemed awfully uninterested in any real investigation until the story broke. If Joe can't recall where he keeps anything....why wouldn't they go through all his stuff immediately?

You don't have to have partisan glasses to see this clearly. That timeline was the one the administration gave....but it's a lie.

 

[SimplyMe]

That's because they literally committed the same crime. Mishandling classified information.

No, there is no evidence of Biden committing obstruction, or defying a court order.

One was informed...Biden wasn't. Odd despite all those years passing by that NARA didn't notice documents missing.





I got that detail....I don't know why you think it matters.

No, you didn't, because you kept trying to claim that he hadn't quit the DoJ and stating that he must not have been very loyal to Trump -- or something along that line.

Yes, you did.

National Archives says it retrieved nine boxes of Biden records from ex-personal attorney's Boston office

The acting archivist of the U.S. told two GOP senators that the nine boxes were retrieved in early November.

www.cbsnews.com

"Debra Steidel Wall, acting archivist of the U.S., revealed that the Archives was informed that Mr. Biden's personal attorneys began their review of materials stored at the Penn Biden Center in October, which is earlier than was previously known. Archives staff picked up the nine boxes of Mr. Biden's vice presidential records from Moore's office on Nov. 9, at the request of the Justice Department, Wall said."

That's nice but appears to be talking of a different factor. First -- and this is per your linked article -- there were 10 classified documents. Not 9 boxes, 10 documents. If you put the two stories together, the 10 documents were returned on Nov. 3. In fact, your article even states, "the Archives first learned that Mr. Biden's records were transported to Boston on Nov. 3." Notice it specifically says "Mr. Biden's records" and nothing about Classified documents (which would not be "Mr. Biden's records").

That's October. His lawyers began going through his classified docs in October. They moved 9 boxes of who knows what to his lawyer's office....we don't know how long they went through them...

Then they contacted the DOJ. Then turned over 9 boxes (not a few documents)....from the lawyer's office. Then, it appears, NARA wanted the boxes the documents were contained in -- which no longer had any classified documents -- and those were picked up on Nov. 9. I'm not seeing a discrepancy here, it is something you are trying to find.

Great, they started going through the boxes in October. Yet there is nothing there that claims they found the 10 classified documents prior to Nov. 2. And, yes, nine boxes (not 10 Classified documents) were picked up on Nov. 9.

Yeah...he had been president for 2 years, right? You honestly believe that? Do you honestly believe that his lawyer just happened to be packing up Biden's office....stumbled across a classified doc....and immediately called the DOJ? Or do you think he was in there a month earlier, pulled out 9 boxes of Biden’s stuff, then later NARA stops by to pick up everything?

Those are wildly different stories.

Again, I think the most accurate account is what I posted above -- since even your article states there were only 10 Classified documents. I'd suspect that NARA got the Classified Documents and decided they wanted to see what documents the Classified documents were mixed in with, so they requested the boxes; but that is speculation on my part. Again, I'm interested to hear exactly why they had taken to boxes and what took them at least a couple of weeks to examine. I'm sure that will come out eventually.

In one, Joe's cooperating immediately over the discovery of maybe a couple dozen or so docs. In the other story, the one NARA gives to Republican investigators....Joe's lawyer us cleaning up his dirt, and the DOJ and NARA don't seem to care that he had 9 boxes of docs at this location....

I can certainly understand why you might believe the first story....this second one doesn't even highlight the fact that the first story is a complete lie.

There's no real investigation of Biden happening....and not because he complied immediately nor is it because he forgot where he kept all his secrets.

I don't necessarily believe either story -- that is just the facts we currently have to work with. If we get updated information, I'll work with that. But, again, nine boxes is not 10 Classified documents -- and we have reports of them picking up the Classified documents on Nov 3, and nine boxes of Mr. Biden's records on Nov. 9. I'll be interested to see what further information comes out.

Well he either forgot what was there or he didn't.





Lol because that's what he expected to see at his private "think tank" ....private funeral arrangements, documents relating to his duties as a VP, etc.



You're kidding yourself here...not me.

No, I'm just not making "worst case" assumptions or trying to paint Biden in the worst light possible. Maybe you're right but, for the moment, what is known does not match your version of events -- not even per your own articles.

I wouldn't hold your breath.



Those dates and the initial picture given to the public is completely different from the one given by NARA.

Again, they're not. I didn't say anything about nine boxes, mine was purely focused on the 10 Classified documents. Again, what makes the most sense, based on the timelines, is that the documents were picked up on the 3rd and the boxes on the 9th.

NARA didn't notice documents missing for at least 6 years. Yet, when Trump left, they begin requesting them in less than 6 months.

Biden wasn't the President. My personal guess, though I don't know, is that Biden had copies specifically made for the VP, not the originals from the President. As I mention above, NARA may have just wanted to ensure, given that Classified documents were mixed in with the documents in the boxes, to ensure they don't need copies of those documents, as well.

Of course, in Trump's case, the documents they are specifically searching for are "high profile" documents that Trump had talked about. You know, the letters between Pres. Trump and Kim Jong-Un and the infamous Sharpie weather map. If they were documents that talked of the serving of ice cream at a state dinner, NARA likely would have wanted them but not realized they were missing.

I'll take a peek.




Lol certainly one of us has the wrong info.

Again, not necessarily. Again, it would appear 10 documents were taken on Nov. 3 and nine boxes (which were not classified) were taken on Nov. 9.

Why would there be a court order? They apparently didn't know 9 boxes of docs were missing for 6 years. Either that's a big oopsie or NARA was just another attempt to get something on Trump.

Because both NARA and the DoJ kept telling Trump to turn over the requested documents and Trump never did? And, again, NARA may well have had the documents already, that these were copies either made by Biden or by the President's office for the VP. We just don't know.

Well let's see...

1. You were lied to. You believe that Biden lawyers immediately contacted when in reality, it appears the lawyer collected any docs, went through them, told DOJ....who didn't care....and said to turn them over to NARA. Any half-hearted attempt at a real investigation was made later.

Let's see your evidence that they didn't. All your article states is that they started looking at the boxes in October. You have yet to show any of the dates were wrong. And if you work in government, you know it is perfectly understandable that they'd take the Classified documents immediately and get the 9 boxes, without any Classified documents, a week later. They'd want the Classified documents as soon as possible when it was at a lawyer's office who had no clearance.

2. For all your accusations of partisanship you failed to realize I've never disagreed that Trump possessed classified documents. Oddly, you don't seem to consider it possible Trump wanted to sort through his documents to separate the personal from the classified. It's not as if he had 6 years.

He's not given 6 years -- they are due on the date he leaves office. The sorting is supposed to be completed when he leaves office. If you go back and look at articles from the end of Pres. Obama's term, they started turning the documents over to NARA in May of 2015 -- over six months before he left office, with any remaining documents, that hadn't yet been sent, moved to NARA on Inauguration Day.

3 years really but who's counting?

I was going on the fact that the FBI got the laptop in 2019 -- but yes, it was at the end of the year.

You say this as if they were working for Trump. He told the FBI to investigate. The fact that they quietly sat on it and squashed the story for a year says that perhaps his DOJ wasn't working for him.

LOL... Giuliani was working directly for Pres. Trump, he was Trump's personal lawyer. You don't think he would have told Trump what he found, and Trump wouldn't have put pressure on Barr to expedite the case? And there is zero evidence that they "sat on it and squashed the story for a year." Yes, I've seen the claims by right wing media but the issue is that the claims they make are false, they were invented.

And it still doesn't explain why we aren't hearing it shouted from the rooftops from MTG, Matt Gaetz, and other Republicans who have had full copies for at least 6 months, if not over a year?

Why? What could be done with them?

Impeach Biden, at a minimum -- if the claims you appear to believe are actually true.

Refused to run what story?

The story of the Hunter Biden laptop; they did not find any convincing evidence of wrongdoing by Joe Biden.

It's either something they'll wait until election time to drop....or not at all.

Oh, so Tucker didn't do it just prior to last election (when he interviewed Bobulinski) because he wanted Trump to lose? In which case, why would he do it in 2024? Your argument makes zero sense.

I don't see that happening. I don't think anyone wants Kamala in his place even if it could happen.

So you are saying that the Republican leadership cares more about power than corruption? You make them sound as bad, or worse, than Biden.

Why would the FBI suggest that the New York Post story was Russian misinformation if they already had Hunter's laptop and knew it wasn't?

I don't recall the FBI making that comment. The comment I recall was by 50 former Intelligence officers (no one currently working in government). In fact, in response, from the Director of National Intelligence stated, “Let me be clear: The intelligence community doesn’t believe that, because there is no intelligence that supports that. And we shared no intelligence with Chairman Schiff or any other member of Congress that Hunter Biden’s laptop is part of some Russian disinformation campaign.”

Again, the FBI didn't suggest that and, to the best of my knowledge, neither did anyone else in government.

Technically correct is the point of the message. You can read whatever you want into it....he doesn't deny or confirm anything.

LOL, you are really straining gnats, aren't you. He had no knowledge of Joe Biden being part of the deal, so why would he reference the "Big Guy" if, as you claim, that refers to Biden?

Hard to say for certain.

Only hard because it doesn't fit your preconceived narrative.

Shocking.



You happen to know the date on those emails?

Gilliar's email is from 2017, and it is the one that Boublinsky claims is referring to Biden.

Yeah....I'm mistaken lol.

Yes, you have been, more than once.

That's gotta be it....lol nothing to do with Republicans being able to order investigations.

You are in "conspiracy theory" territory now. As you point out, NARA had no knowledge of any records being missing, much less Classified documents. The Republican Congress has no ability to order searches, the most they can do is order testimony. Even if they could order searches, it would require "probably cause," which they don't have. Just what did Biden have to fear, even if he realized there were Classified documents there, of a Republican investigation? This doesn't even make sense -- particularly based on Biden's comments on "60 Minutes."

Oh, I forgot, Republicans keep trying to claim that Biden is both completely senile, not able to remember from one moment to the next, and at the same time one of the greatest criminal masterminds, at the top of his game, that the world has ever seen.

Nope...just work in the federal government. Do tell me how it works...



That's a wild imagination you have.

Not imagination at all.

Who is that? Kashoggi?



What Afghan government?

You know, the Afghan government that had, led by Pres. Ashraf Ghani? Typically if you negotiate a peace agreement in a country, you include the leadership of that country.

You have no idea what happened there, do you?

I know what happened there and am not happy about it, there is plenty of blame to be spread around, including both Trump and Biden.

Sounds like a common theme...Biden fails, Trump's fault.

Let me ask you something....

If NARA doesn't even notice Biden's docs are missing for 6 years....is it really about compliance?

If Biden's lawyer calls the DOJ, and tells them he has 9 boxes of docs...including classified materials he doesn't have a clearance for....and the DOJ says "just call up NARA and schedule a time to turn them over"....is it really about national security?

Again, the 10 classified documents had been picked up, so there was no rush on the 9 boxes. Kind of like the DoJ told Trump he could keep his boxes of documents locked up until NARA came to pick them up -- though they found out Trump wasn't keeping them locked up and that they contained more Classified information, at which point they got the search warrant.

This DOJ seemed awfully uninterested in any real investigation until the story broke. If Joe can't recall where he keeps anything....why wouldn't they go through all his stuff immediately?

You don't have to have partisan glasses to see this clearly. That timeline was the one the administration gave....but it's a lie.

See, just like I mentioned above, Biden is so smart he has his lawyers "find" the documents before Republicans take over. But he's so senile, he can't remember where he kept anything (or likely that he even has it). Which is it?

And, again, you haven't shown the timeline is wrong -- it is a second timeline in your article for the nine boxes of documents, the 10 classified documents found are only mentioned in passing. You are so dead set to believe Biden is guilty of everything and anything, that you don't look at information critically, you just accept what your preconceived notions tell you, let them determine what must be "true," and throw out the rest.

And the DoJ set a Trump-appointed prosecutor to investigate in November -- see the timeline above. He, the Trump appointed prosecutor, in January, recommended a Special Prosecutor be appointed and one was. I'm not sue what more you think the DoJ should have done between November and January? The known facts don't support that the DoJ "seemed awfully uninterested until the story broke."

 

[Pommer]

No, there is no evidence of Biden committing obstruction, or defying a court order.

Besides, Biden was only Vice-President and not subjected to the Presidential Records Act.

 

[Ana the Ist]

No, there is no evidence of Biden committing obstruction, or defying a court order.

Is that what you think mishandling of classified documents is?

No, you didn't, because you kept trying to claim that he hadn't quit the DoJ and stating that he must not have been very loyal to Trump -- or something along that line.

I'm pretty sure I never said any such thing.

That's nice but appears to be talking of a different factor. First -- and this is per your linked article -- there were 10 classified documents. Not 9 boxes, 10 documents. If you put the two stories together, the 10 documents were returned on Nov. 3. In fact, your article even states, "the Archives first learned that Mr. Biden's records were transported to Boston on Nov. 3." Notice it specifically says "Mr. Biden's records" and nothing about Classified documents (which would not be "Mr. Biden's records").

October. The lawyer had access to the docs in October. I don't just take this administration's word on anything. I can't imagine why you think they only collected 10 classified docs....they already lied about how this all went down.

Great, they started going through the boxes in October.

Who is "they"? The article mentions 1 lawyer.

Again, I think the most accurate account is what I posted above -- since even your article states there were only 10 Classified documents. I'd suspect that NARA got the Classified Documents and decided they wanted to see what documents the Classified documents were mixed in with, so they requested the boxes; but that is speculation on my part. Again, I'm interested to hear exactly why they had taken to boxes and what took them at least a couple of weeks to examine. I'm sure that will come out eventually.

We'll see.

I don't necessarily believe either story -- that is just the facts we currently have to work with. If we get updated information, I'll work with that. But, again, nine boxes is not 10 Classified documents -- and we have reports of them picking up the Classified documents on Nov 3, and nine boxes of Mr. Biden's records on Nov. 9. I'll be interested to see what further information comes out.

Mhm...we'll see.

No, I'm just not making "worst case" assumptions or trying to paint Biden in the worst light possible. Maybe you're right but, for the moment, what is known does not match your version of events -- not even per your own articles.

What is known???

See....this is the problem right here.

You think you're reading "what is known".

Again, they're not. I didn't say anything about nine boxes, mine was purely focused on the 10 Classified documents.

U sure it's just 10?

Joe's a forgetful guy....

Again, what makes the most sense, based on the timelines, is that the documents were picked up on the 3rd and the boxes on the 9th.

Uh huh.

Biden wasn't the President. My personal guess, though I don't know, is that Biden had copies specifically made for the VP, not the originals from the President. As I mention above, NARA may have just wanted to ensure, given that Classified documents were mixed in with the documents in the boxes, to ensure they don't need copies of those documents, as well.

Yeah that's probably it. They figured wow....it's been 6 years....we'd look like idiots if we were only keeping track of Trump’s docs.

Of course, in Trump's case, the documents they are specifically searching for are "high profile" documents that Trump had talked about. You know, the letters between Pres. Trump and Kim Jong-Un and the infamous Sharpie weather map.

Ok.

If they were documents that talked of the serving of ice cream at a state dinner, NARA likely would have wanted them but not realized they were missing.

Sure sure.

Again, not necessarily. Again, it would appear 10 documents were taken on Nov. 3 and nine boxes (which were not classified) were taken on Nov. 9.

Well you know about 10...

Because both NARA and the DoJ kept telling Trump to turn over the requested documents and Trump never did?

Perhaps his staffers just threw them into a box during the hustle and bustle.

And, again, NARA may well have had the documents already, that these were copies either made by Biden or by the President's office for the VP. We just don't know.

Well either way....once he's no longer VP, he can't legally possess classified documents.

Let's see your evidence that they didn't. All your article states is that they started looking at the boxes in October.

Again, who is they?

You have yet to show any of the dates were wrong. And if you work in government, you know it is perfectly understandable that they'd take the Classified documents immediately and get the 9 boxes, without any Classified documents, a week later. They'd want the Classified documents as soon as possible when it was at a lawyer's office who had no clearance.

The timeline of events surrounding the discovery of documents at Biden's former office and residence

Here is a look at some of the key events surrounding the discovery of government documents in Mr. Biden's possession.

www.google.com

Is that timeline accurate in your mind?

And no....those lawyers would know they shouldn't even touch those docs and call the administration immediately.

You wouldn't take them back to your office.

He's not given 6 years -- they are due on the date he leaves office.

So 4 years under Trump...he takes office, and about 2 years later they find the docs.

6 years. NARA didn't care if Biden turned in his docs at all.

The sorting is supposed to be completed when he leaves office.

Uh huh.

If you go back and look at articles from the end of Pres. Obama's term, they started turning the documents over to NARA in May of 2015 -- over six months before he left office, with any remaining documents, that hadn't yet been sent, moved to NARA on Inauguration Day.

Right, I think Obama set these protocols.

I was going on the fact that the FBI got the laptop in 2019 -- but yes, it was at the end of the year.

Either way....hard to imagine why they were running around trying to squash a true story as Russian disinformation.

LOL... Giuliani was working directly for Pres. Trump, he was Trump's personal lawyer. You don't think he would have told Trump what he found, and Trump wouldn't have put pressure on Barr to expedite the case?

I don't think Giuliani can use a computer.

And there is zero evidence that they "sat on it and squashed the story for a year."

Zuckerberg and Twitter execs were basically told by FBI within a day or two before the story, that there was going to be a Russian disinformation hoax.

And it still doesn't explain why we aren't hearing it shouted from the rooftops from MTG, Matt Gaetz, and other Republicans who have had full copies for at least 6 months, if not over a year?

What do you think they can do? They only started to get the ability to investigate late in 2022....

If you want a specific date....it's a couple of days after Biden’s lawyer found his classified docs.

Impeach Biden, at a minimum -- if the claims you appear to believe are actually true.

Not enough votes. Democrats won't vote to impeach.

The story of the Hunter Biden laptop; they did not find any convincing evidence of wrongdoing by Joe Biden.

I'm sure that's why the investigation is closed....

Oh wait....

Oh, so Tucker didn't do it just prior to last election (when he interviewed Bobulinski) because he wanted Trump to lose? In which case, why would he do it in 2024? Your argument makes zero sense.

You're all focused on this Bobulinski stuff.

So you are saying that the Republican leadership cares more about power than corruption? You make them sound as bad, or worse, than Biden.

You seem to have this wild idea where the Democrats are going to vote with the Republicans to oust their own president.

I don't recall the FBI making that comment. The comment I recall was by 50 former Intelligence officers (no one currently working in government). In fact, in response, from the Director of National Intelligence stated, “Let me be clear: The intelligence community doesn’t believe that, because there is no intelligence that supports that. And we shared no intelligence with Chairman Schiff or any other member of Congress that Hunter Biden’s laptop is part of some Russian disinformation campaign.”

The social media execs seem to disagree.

Again, the FBI didn't suggest that and, to the best of my knowledge, neither did anyone else in government.

What was this supposed Russian misinformation dump that didn't occur then?

LOL, you are really straining gnats, aren't you. He had no knowledge of Joe Biden being part of the deal, so why would he reference the "Big Guy" if, as you claim, that refers to Biden?

Why do you think Hunter got the job?

Only hard because it doesn't fit your preconceived narrative.

Reality. It doesn't fit reality.

Gilliar's email is from 2017, and it is the one that Boublinsky claims is referring to Biden.

Would that be around the time Biden was storing classified documents at home?

Yes, you have been, more than once.


You are in "conspiracy theory" territory now. As you point out, NARA had no knowledge of any records being missing, much less Classified documents.

You sure? I mean....it's either that, or they're just corrupt and going after Trump under orders.

The Republican Congress has no ability to order searches, the most they can do is order testimony.

They can initiate investigations.

Even if they could order searches, it would require "probably cause," which they don't have.

Probable cause. In the case of Mr Biden, they're already aware he had classified documents that he shouldn't have possessed. If his excuse is "I forgot about them" then they should definitely search any other possible location.

Just what did Biden have to fear, even if he realized there were Classified documents there, of a Republican investigation? This doesn't even make sense -- particularly based on Biden's comments on "60 Minutes."

I didn't watch that. I'm not exactly sure what you're asking here.

Oh, I forgot, Republicans keep trying to claim that Biden is both completely senile, not able to remember from one moment to the next, and at the same time one of the greatest criminal masterminds, at the top of his game, that the world has ever seen.

I don't believe he forgot about the documents at his think tank. If he did, it was because a handler of his remembered he did business there.

Not imagination at all.

You know, the Afghan government that had, led by Pres. Ashraf Ghani? Typically if you negotiate a peace agreement in a country, you include the leadership of that country.

Which one was he? I remember the first few running off with our funds to non-extradition nations.

I know what happened there and am not happy about it, there is plenty of blame to be spread around, including both Trump and Biden.

Then why bring up the 5000 prisoners?

Again, the 10 classified documents had been picked up, so there was no rush on the 9 boxes.

Sure....why go through 9 boxes when you can take a lawyer's word for it?

Kind of like the DoJ told Trump he could keep his boxes of documents locked up until NARA came to pick them up -- though they found out Trump wasn't keeping them locked up and that they contained more Classified information, at which point they got the search warrant.

Yeah ok....don't sweat those classified docs as long as they're locked up lol. That's how it works lol.

See, just like I mentioned above, Biden is so smart he has his lawyers "find" the documents before Republicans take over. But he's so senile, he can't remember where he kept anything (or likely that he even has it). Which is it?

How do you explain it? He forgot? He just got lucky on the timing?

You know why there was a big investigation into January 6th? Sure....they didn't find much....and they appear to have wanted to reveal less than they found.....but do you know why Congress had that investigation?

And, again, you haven't shown the timeline is wrong -- it is a second timeline in your article for the nine boxes of documents, the 10 classified documents found are only mentioned in passing.

Well it contradicts the idea that these things were turned over immediately. Is this a 10 room office? Does he have some Scrooge McDuck style document vault?

He started searching in October. I don't think he somehow missed the classified documents on day 1.

You are so dead set to believe Biden is guilty of everything and anything, that you don't look at information critically, you just accept what your preconceived notions tell you, let them determine what must be "true," and throw out the rest.

Well I understand that Biden would lose his legal clearance to those docs when he left office. So for 6 years he illegally possessed classified documents.

Well, at least 4 of those years anyway.

And the DoJ set a Trump-appointed prosecutor to investigate in November -- see the timeline above.

Again...not sure what you think this means.

He, the Trump appointed prosecutor, in January, recommended a Special Prosecutor be appointed and one was. I'm not sue what more you think the DoJ should have done between November and January?

Raid Biden's office, home, and any other places he might have forgotten about leaving documents.

If they believed he forgot them....they should have done this immediately.

The known facts don't support that the DoJ "seemed awfully uninterested until the story broke."

See above.

Wanna see the post I had in one of the first threads about the Trump raid where I said they all keep classified docs?

 

[SimplyMe]

Is that what you think mishandling of classified documents is?

Where have either Trump or Biden be charged with this? For that matter, what about Pence, who also found Classified documents?

I'm pretty sure I never said any such thing.



October. The lawyer had access to the docs in October.

Did he? You are talking about one lawyer and nine boxes of documents. Even assuming he is doing this full time, that he doesn't have other clients he's helping, it is going to take a lawyer time to go through nine boxes. I guess you can argue he technically had "access" but what evidence do you have that he found them prior to Nov. 2?

I don't just take this administration's word on anything. I can't imagine why you think they only collected 10 classified docs....they already lied about how this all went down.

And this appears to be your issue, you don't "believe" what is being reported so make up your own narratives.

Who is "they"? The article mentions 1 lawyer.



We'll see.



Mhm...we'll see.




What is known???

See....this is the problem right here.

You think you're reading "what is known".



U sure it's just 10?

That is what your article said it was, and every other article I've seen. Of course, another 6 were found in the garage, but in his Penn office only 10. If you have evidence to the contrary you should let us know.

Joe's a forgetful guy....





Uh huh.



Yeah that's probably it. They figured wow....it's been 6 years....we'd look like idiots if we were only keeping track of Trump’s docs.



Ok.




Sure sure.





Well you know about 10...



Perhaps his staffers just threw them into a box during the hustle and bustle.



Well either way....once he's no longer VP, he can't legally possess classified documents.

Again, who is they?

The timeline of events surrounding the discovery of documents at Biden's former office and residence

Here is a look at some of the key events surrounding the discovery of government documents in Mr. Biden's possession.

www.google.com

Is that timeline accurate in your mind?

And no....those lawyers would know they shouldn't even touch those docs and call the administration immediately.

You wouldn't take them back to your office.

The boxes were already at their office, at least in DC. Apparently the movers from the Penn office moved them to the lawyer's office to DC. And, it appears you agree that the Classified documents were picked up by NARA on Nov 3, prior to the remaining nine boxes of documents being shipped to Boston.

So 4 years under Trump...he takes office, and about 2 years later they find the docs.

6 years. NARA didn't care if Biden turned in his docs at all.

That they took 9 boxes of documents would indicate that isn't true. Again, Trump's documents were "high profile" documents that they knew they were missing, documents Trump had talked about publicly (again, Kim Jong-Un letters, the Sharpie weather map, etc). NARA didn't request all the boxes worth of documents returned from Mar-A-Lago. Instead, they had a list of maybe 100 total documents they knew were missing and specifically requested, and knew they didn't have them, even after Trump shipped them the documents that he claimed to have.

Uh huh.




Right, I think Obama set these protocols.

No, again, the protocols go back to 1978 as they are outlined by the Presidential Records Act.

Either way....hard to imagine why they were running around trying to squash a true story as Russian disinformation.




I don't think Giuliani can use a computer.

I see you are making up your own facts again. Talking about unqualified people, makes you wonder how Giuliani set up and ran his own cybersecurity business? Or why Trump, "I hire the best people," used Giuliani as his cybersecurity expert?

Zuckerberg and Twitter execs were basically told by FBI within a day or two before the story, that there was going to be a Russian disinformation hoax.

From what has been reported, that was a coincidence. Yes, again you don't believe it so think it can't be true -- the fact remains, we know Russia has interfered and continues to interfere, so the FBI and intelligence agencies frequently issue warnings. This is particularly true in the lead up to elections.

What do you think they can do? They only started to get the ability to investigate late in 2022....

I thought all the evidence was on the laptop -- you have been claiming that there is plenty of evidence. So which is it, the laptop proves nothing, that much more investigation is needed or that the laptop doesn't prove anything and they have to get a full investigation to know what crimes have been committed?

If you want a specific date....it's a couple of days after Biden’s lawyer found his classified docs.






Not enough votes. Democrats won't vote to impeach.




I'm sure that's why the investigation is closed....

Oh wait....



You're all focused on this Bobulinski stuff.




You seem to have this wild idea where the Democrats are going to vote with the Republicans to oust their own president.




The social media execs seem to disagree.




What was this supposed Russian misinformation dump that didn't occur then?






Why do you think Hunter got the job?

Hunter got what job, since you are talking about China? How he co-founded an investment company that was putting together investment deals with money from various countries, to include China? I think he got that job by founding the company with a couple of people he knew.

Of course, you are likely talking about Burisma. Despite your claim, he was qualified -- he had been on the board of other companies and had worked in the legal profession and had a law degree. Burisma hired Hunter to oversee (at a board member level) their legal department. For that job he was qualified and had experience. This canard about "he had no oil and gas experience" is a red herring; go look at the Board of Directors of Exxon, the world's largest oil company, and see that many of their board members also have no oil and gas experience.

Oh, and how Biden got the job with Burisma is due to Devon Archer. Burisma selected Archer for their board but still was looking for more foreign board members, Archer then lobbied to get Hunter the job.

Now, I will fully agree it looked bad and we should have ethical rules that limit what family members of high level officials can do, to prevent this type of apparent conflict of interest.

Reality. It doesn't fit reality.

Interesting opinion you have there. Of course, you have evidence for it, right?

Would that be around the time Biden was storing classified documents at home?



You sure? I mean....it's either that, or they're just corrupt and going after Trump under orders.





They can initiate investigations.




Probable cause. In the case of Mr Biden, they're already aware he had classified documents that he shouldn't have possessed. If his excuse is "I forgot about them" then they should definitely search any other possible location.



I didn't watch that. I'm not exactly sure what you're asking here.




I don't believe he forgot about the documents at his think tank. If he did, it was because a handler of his remembered he did business there.





Which one was he? I remember the first few running off with our funds to non-extradition nations.





Then why bring up the 5000 prisoners?




Sure....why go through 9 boxes when you can take a lawyer's word for it?





Yeah ok....don't sweat those classified docs as long as they're locked up lol. That's how it works lol.




How do you explain it? He forgot? He just got lucky on the timing?

You know why there was a big investigation into January 6th? Sure....they didn't find much....and they appear to have wanted to reveal less than they found.....but do you know why Congress had that investigation?




Well it contradicts the idea that these things were turned over immediately. Is this a 10 room office? Does he have some Scrooge McDuck style document vault?

He started searching in October. I don't think he somehow missed the classified documents on day 1.



Well I understand that Biden would lose his legal clearance to those docs when he left office. So for 6 years he illegally possessed classified documents.

Well, at least 4 of those years anyway.




Again...not sure what you think this means.




Raid Biden's office, home, and any other places he might have forgotten about leaving documents.

If they believed he forgot them....they should have done this immediately.






See above.

Wanna see the post I had in one of the first threads about the Trump raid where I said they all keep classified docs?

I see lots of speculation but light on any type of actual evidence. Yes, you want to believe the worst so it doesn't correspond to "reality" -- but you can't offer any reality, only speculation, since there is no actual evidence supporting your claims. The best you can do is claim that everyone is "out to get you" -- or at least out to get Trump.

 

[SimplyMe]

Besides, Biden was only Vice-President and not subjected to the Presidential Records Act.

The Vice President's documents are included in the Presidential Records Act.

 

[Pommer]

The Vice President's documents are included in the Presidential Records Act.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[DaisyDay]

Well either way....once he's no longer VP, he can't legally possess classified documents.

Basic Laws and Authorities

Source: The provisions of Executive Order 12958, as amended by Executive Order 13292, can be found at 68 Federal Register 15315 (March 28, 2003).

www.archives.gov

Sec. 4.4. a. 3.

I remember Trump took great delight in removing James Clapper's security clearance.

One of the reasons NARA noticed Trump retained government papers, photos, gifts, etc. is that he took such high profile items like the Sharpie-gate hurricane map - that is not a classified item, but it is of historical interest.

 

[DaisyDay]

And, back on topic:

Judicial record undermines Clarence Thomas defence in luxury gifts scandal

Republican mega-donor Harlan Crow was linked to a conservative group that had court business while Thomas was on the bench

www.theguardian.com

But a close look at Thomas’s judicial activities from the time he became friends with Crow, in the mid-1990s, suggests that the statement might fall short of the full picture. It reveals that a conservative organization affiliated with Crow did have business before the supreme court while Thomas was on the bench.

In addition, Crow has been connected to several groups that over the years have lobbied the supreme court through so-called “amicus briefs” that provide legal arguments supporting a plaintiff or defendant.​

 

[Ana the Ist]

Where have either Trump or Biden be charged with this? For that matter, what about Pence, who also found Classified documents?

They haven't, in fact, I doubt they will. Despite getting Democratic hopes up...that case is dead in the water.

Did he? You are talking about one lawyer and nine boxes of documents.

Mhm.

Even assuming he is doing this full time, that he doesn't have other clients he's helping, it is going to take a lawyer time to go through nine boxes.

That's why he's getting paid the big bucks.

I guess you can argue he technically had "access" but what evidence do you have that he found them prior to Nov. 2?

Well he had been looking since October.

And this appears to be your issue, you don't "believe" what is being reported so make up your own narratives.

Yeah...I pull the facts out of the story, and put them together in a way that makes sense.

This is what everyone should have been doing for at least the last 5 years.

The media lies....not sure if you've heard.

That is what your article said it was, and every other article I've seen. Of course, another 6 were found in the garage, but in his Penn office only 10. If you have evidence to the contrary you should let us know.

I think the article speculated 25-30 but who's counting?

The boxes were already at their office, at least in DC.

Ok.

Apparently the movers from the Penn office moved them to the lawyer's office to OK.

Movers?

And, it appears you agree that the Classified documents were picked up by NARA on Nov 3, prior to the remaining nine boxes of documents being shipped to Boston.

I have no idea what happened between the finding of those documents and their report months later.

That they took 9 boxes of documents would indicate that isn't true. Again, Trump's documents were "high profile" documents that they knew they were missing, documents Trump had talked about publicly (again, Kim Jong-Un letters, the Sharpie weather map, etc).

Again....it doesn't really matter what the documents were. Both had top secret docs in their possession.

NARA didn't request all the boxes worth of documents returned from Mar-A-Lago. Instead, they had a list of maybe 100 total documents they knew were missing and specifically requested, and knew they didn't have them, even after Trump shipped them the documents that he claimed to have.

Ok.

No, again, the protocols go back to 1978 as they are outlined by the Presidential Records Act.

Which allows the president to choose to make a record of what he wants.

I see you are making up your own facts again. Talking about unqualified people, makes you wonder how Giuliani set up and ran his own cybersecurity business? Or why Trump, "I hire the best people," used Giuliani as his cybersecurity expert?

I think Giuliani probably has someone do that for him.

From what has been reported, that was a coincidence.

A lot of those lately, huh?

Yes, again you don't believe it so think it can't be true -- the fact remains, we know Russia has interfered and continues to interfere, so the FBI and intelligence agencies frequently issue warnings. This is particularly true in the lead up to elections.

Right....so what was the Russian interference they were expecting?

I thought all the evidence was on the laptop -- you have been claiming that there is plenty of evidence.

I don't know what is on the laptop. I only know if it had nothing....Wray would have closed the investigation by now.

So which is it, the laptop proves nothing, that much more investigation is needed or that the laptop doesn't prove anything and they have to get a full investigation to know what crimes have been committed?

He's the sitting President. Which one of his lackies do you think would arrest him for a crime?

Hunter got what job, since you are talking about China?

Burisma

How he co-founded an investment company that was putting together investment deals with money from various countries, to include China? I think he got that job by founding the company with a couple of people he knew.

Are we talking about the fraudulent company?

Of course, you are likely talking about Burisma. Despite your claim, he was qualified

Was he?

-- he had been on the board of other companies and had worked in the legal profession and had a law degree.

What kind of law degree?

Burisma hired Hunter to oversee (at a board member level) their legal department. For that job he was qualified and had experience.

Expert on Ukrainian law lol? He picked it up between stints in rehab?

This canard about "he had no oil and gas experience" is a red herring; go look at the Board of Directors of Exxon, the world's largest oil company, and see that many of their board members also have no oil and gas experience.

Uh....the first guy I looked up is a multi-billionare and former CEO of one of the largest media groups in the world.

So yeah....I guess he doesn't have oil experience lol.

Oh, and how Biden got the job with Burisma is due to Devon Archer. Burisma selected Archer for their board but still was looking for more foreign board members, Archer then lobbied to get Hunter the job.

I wonder why.

Now, I will fully agree it looked bad and we should have ethical rules that limit what family members of high level officials can do, to prevent this type of apparent conflict of interest.

It looked worse when Biden threatened to withhold a billion dollars to the Ukraine unless they fired the prosecutor building a case against the biggest shareholder of Burisma....for corruption.

Interesting opinion you have there. Of course, you have evidence for it, right?

Would Biden's own words suffice?

I see lots of speculation but light on any type of actual evidence. Yes, you want to believe the worst so it doesn't correspond to "reality" -- but you can't offer any reality, only speculation, since there is no actual evidence supporting your claims. The best you can do is claim that everyone is "out to get you" -- or at least out to get Trump.

Never said either of those things.

And you still didn't answer....because I went back and looked it up. I told you that these guys walk out the door with classified documents all the time. Wayyyy...way back before Biden was caught. Remember?

 

[wing2000]

@SimplyMe & Ana the lst....there are other threads addressing classified documents.
Unless USSC Justices are taking home classified documents, I fail to see the relevance in this thread.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Basic Laws and Authorities

Source: The provisions of Executive Order 12958, as amended by Executive Order 13292, can be found at 68 Federal Register 15315 (March 28, 2003).

www.archives.gov

Sec. 4.4. a. 3.

I'm not sure what you think that says...but it says the VP can seek a waiver to retain said documents.

I remember Trump took great delight in removing James Clapper's security clearance.

One of the reasons NARA noticed Trump retained government papers, photos, gifts, etc. is that he took such high profile items like the Sharpie-gate hurricane map - that is not a classified item, but it is of historical interest.

Cool story.