• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Claiming to be Christian while saying "If God exists"

TexasSky

Senior Veteran
Mar 6, 2006
7,265
1,014
Texas
✟12,139.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Tonight I was talking to someone who often brags about being a Christian and talks about how they want to become a Christian author, teach Sunday School, etc., but they made remarks that just.. stun me.

Things they said that made me feel like I was dealing with a demon more than a Christian included things like:

"If God exists, why doesn't He make Himself known."
"Man saw that we needed a savior so we got God to send a savior."
"God isn't active today. He leaves it up to us."
"If God loved the world so much, why doesn't he send a message in the sky that says, "I'm here! Worship me so you don't die."
"Sure you get miracles when you pray for health, so do the Buddhists."
"Man was created like a baby, but we've grown up, God is like a parent and we're kids. He's not active because we don't need him."
"Satan isn't around anymore. If he was he'd kick our *ss because God isn't acting anymore."

I am sure my reaction was wrong. (It was, "You're not a Christian. I don't know what you are, but you are not a Christian." )

But how SHOULD you react to this kind of ... blasphemous stuff coming from a person who makes a habit of loudly proclaiming they are a Christian to anyone who listens?

I meet this kind of thing on smaller scales fairly often now days. People proclaiming Christ while at the same time saying things like, "Well, He didn't really rise from the grave," or "He doesn't love us."

How do you respond???
 

TexasKitKat

Member
Jun 25, 2006
22
2
Texas
✟22,657.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Perhaps instead of saying they aren't a Christian, ask them if they consider themselves to have a personal relationship with the Lord. How can they say these things if they do?

Christianity is not a set of beliefs. That is religion. Many people mistake having religion as being a Christian. If they KNOW the Lord, have a living loving relationship with him, THEN they are a "Christian".
 
Upvote 0

wonderwaleye

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2005
4,779
161
81
MISSISSIPPI
✟5,952.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Dear Texassky


Your friend knows what she wants but needs answers. This is her way of asking questions without sounding dumb.


She may well be trying to take a short cut rather than read GOD'S WORD.


Consider these statements as a door opener for you to come in and bring the GOOD NEWS.


You ought to be pleased she picked you to witness.


SHOW HER HOW TO REMEMBER:






X Even though you can't see him, GOD is there!!! O
( click on the x and drag to the O ) ( then see who is with you ) steven
 
Upvote 0

TexasSky

Senior Veteran
Mar 6, 2006
7,265
1,014
Texas
✟12,139.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Thank you both. I actually tried both of those things before I got frustrated enough to throw up my hands and tell him, "I don't know what you are."

I asked about a personal relationship three times. I was told that I didn't understand God and was just "spouting off the rhetoric of preachers."

I said, "No, it isn't rhetoric. Its truth. Once you have a personal relationship with God you understand that every promise in the bible is correct."

I was told you can't have a personal relationship with God "because He doesn't work that way any more."

I thought, at first, given how much this person brags that they are a wonderful Christian wittness, and can't wait to tell others about Christ, that he'd been hurt, and was going through a period of anger with God. I gently tried to turn the conversation that way. I was told if I think God still answers prayer I'm just giving God credit for what humans do.

I pointed to a miraculous healing in my sister's life and another in my own life, he said, "Even Buddhists get healed with their prayers."

The person claims to believe in the Bible. In fact, at one point, the person said the bible saves people. I gently pointed out that the bible teaches that Christ is salvation, and that Christ came in love. He came back with, "If God loved us why would we need a savior."

I asked him, point blank, if he was trying to play devil's advocate. He said no, that he truly believes what he is saying.

He basically thinks he is a Christian, but that everything the churches of the world teach about Christ iswrong, and that he has figured it all out.

He believes mankind outgrew a need for a God that interacts with us on a daily basis, and that the larger miracles of the bible like the parting of the Red Sea only happened so God could prove to man that God has power. I asked him why God would need to "prove" anything to man?

I see no difference in what this man was saying and in what Satan himself said in Eden. "We don't need God." "God knows you can become like him."

I've been a Christian for over 40 years. I've witnessed to people who were hostile atheists, former Satanists, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist - I've never heard any of them speak so horribly about Christ, and yet this person was loudly proclaiming that he is a Christian and he knows better than all the other people. I've wittnessed to Christians going through difficult times who are angry at God - this wasn't what was going on.

This conversation went on for hours. This person is 100% convinced he is a Christian and that he is saved.
But he believes he is saved because he "figured it out" and "does what I'm supposed to do."

I said, "You've read the scripture. You know that the bible teaches we're saved through faith, not of works, lest any man should boast, but you tell me "if God exists," I don't see how those two are compatible."

He said, "He exists, he just doesn't interact with us anymore. We grew up. He doesn't need to bother us. Its like a parent with grown children. He's done raising us so we have to do it on our own now."

When I tried to give the plan of salvation to him, he cut me off. Told me that was "just preacher drivel".

This man is divorced, and for 2 weekends a month, and most of the summer, he is teaching two young girls his version of Christianity.

He is also now bragging about how he is witenssing to people on line.

It went from stunning me, to worrying me, to flat out frightening me.
 
Upvote 0

Dragnog

Junior Member
Jul 10, 2006
259
11
✟22,966.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
This kind of retoric reminds me so much of my brother. You are not the only one who has run into this kind of thing. There is a significant movement in the liberal church with ideas like this. I really don't know what the answer is to this. It reminds me of the C.S. Lewis' book "The Last Battle" where there is a group of creature who still believe they are in the shed and Aslan's roar is being made by a machine. I would ask this person what his answer to the questions that he asked. Also and most importantly I would pray for them, like I pray for my brother every night.:prayer:
 
Upvote 0

BoranJarami

Regular Member
Apr 12, 2006
483
30
41
✟23,290.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
As I see it, this man has three basic problems of thought. First he thinks that God is no longer active in this world. This most likely comes from an issue that he had over the seeming lack of the pressence of God in the modern world. It could also have to deal with hearing repots of other faith groups haveing prayers answered. To make sence of these things, he came up wit the idea that we grew up and don't need God anymore.

As such, there are two parts to this situation. Showing him that his explaination falls short and giveing him an explaination for his percieved problems. I would first start out by asking him what makes him think that God does not work in the world anymore, and why he thinks other faiths have their prayers aswered as well. And also ask him what brought him to the conclusion that we had grown up.
 
Upvote 0

wayfaring man

Veteran
Jan 25, 2004
7,761
1,173
✟20,615.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Greetings all ,

Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. <-----> 2nd Timothy 2:19

Lord help me to be concise ...

1. Satan is bringing chaos and confusion to the world regarding the nature of true worship + genuine religion , not so much by refuting the genuine followers of Christ ; but by inundating the world with hypocritical posturers.

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. <-----> 2nd Peter 2:1

2. The critical matter is not so much that there are such among us ... The critical matter is that we become not as one of them ourself .

For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. <-----> 1st Corinthians 11:19

3. We shouldn't feel threatened by those who feign to be something they're not .

Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known. <-----> Matthew 10:26

4. Our care , our concern , is in keeping our focus , our minds , towards all people ( those appealing and unappealing alike ) as those for whom Christ died . Did He not die for the sins of the whole world ? And doesn't that mean , ( since we're saved " according to His mercy + grace ) , that there's hope for every living soul ? It is a diabolical , carnal temptation to put " those for whom Christ died " , into subcategories ; where their image can easily become prematurely celebrated or villified . Think of Saul , before he became Paul , as an example .

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
<-----> 1st Timothy 1:15+16

5. When Jesus told his followers not to judge - this is what He meant . He didn't mean don't judge between what is right , and what is wrong . He meant don't judge who is His , and who is not His. For we can't see , in great detail , what the future holds ; and if we assume we know already who is going to be blessed forever and who is going to be cursed forever , we go beyond what is fitting of our present estate , and become a hypocritical posturer ourself .

Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God. <-----> 1st Corinthians 4:5

* The word " nothing " above , comes from two Greek words which are defined " any person " + " qualified negation ".

Meaning that , in the Light of Christ , and The Cleansing Power of His Shed Blood , we should hold hope in our hearts for every living person , and by treating them accordingly , we are kept in line with Jesus' commandment to love our enemies , and as such we become , as The Apostle Paul was inspired to write -

... blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world. <-----> Philippians 2:15

This is the true nature of genuine Christianity . And it is blessed by God , so that , it's steadfast witness does tear down satan's strongholds ; whereas all the wrath and indignation of man against his fellow man does only add to the devil's designs upon bloodshed , carnage , and desolation .

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
<-----> Isaiah 14:12-20

In summarization - When others are apparently going against us ; the real temptation is not the " defiant carrot " , dangling in front of us , or the " daring line " drawn in the sand before us ; but rather , the true temptation is within ; which is to prematurely judge , in such a way as to close ourselves off , ( by negating emotions / attitudes ) , so that , God's Love and Christ's Forgiveness cannot shine through and be seen in us . And it is those Divinely Wrought Virtues which do mightily convict and convince unto leading us to repentance .

Once we clearly recognize what we're really called to fight against , ( the inner , not the outer ) , then we can experience the True Victory available to us in Christ . But if we keep struggling against " paper dragons " and fighting over " red herrings " , our victories are at best , superficial and hollow ; also , as such , the nature of our defeat is extremely grave and potentially extraordinarily far reaching .

This is what is heard regarding these things .

May we learn them well , Lord Jesus , according to that which brings you Honor , Praise , and Glory . Amen .

wm
 
  • Like
Reactions: TexasSky
Upvote 0

salida

Veteran
Jun 14, 2006
4,305
278
✟6,243.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
TexasSky said:
Tonight I was talking to someone who often brags about being a Christian and talks about how they want to become a Christian author, teach Sunday School, etc., but they made remarks that just.. stun me.

Things they said that made me feel like I was dealing with a demon more than a Christian included things like:

"If God exists, why doesn't He make Himself known."
"Man saw that we needed a savior so we got God to send a savior."
"God isn't active today. He leaves it up to us."
"If God loved the world so much, why doesn't he send a message in the sky that says, "I'm here! Worship me so you don't die."
"Sure you get miracles when you pray for health, so do the Buddhists."
"Man was created like a baby, but we've grown up, God is like a parent and we're kids. He's not active because we don't need him."
"Satan isn't around anymore. If he was he'd kick our *ss because God isn't acting anymore."

I am sure my reaction was wrong. (It was, "You're not a Christian. I don't know what you are, but you are not a Christian." )

But how SHOULD you react to this kind of ... blasphemous stuff coming from a person who makes a habit of loudly proclaiming they are a Christian to anyone who listens?

I meet this kind of thing on smaller scales fairly often now days. People proclaiming Christ while at the same time saying things like, "Well, He didn't really rise from the grave," or "He doesn't love us."

How do you respond???
Well, I'm not their judge - but ask them if they have a personal relationship with Christ? The term christian is thrown around like its a hairstyle.
 
Upvote 0

wtopneuma

Active Member
Jun 27, 2006
229
11
✟15,405.00
Faith
Baptist
TexasSky said:
Thank you both. I actually tried both of those things before I got frustrated enough to throw up my hands and tell him, "I don't know what you are."

I asked about a personal relationship three times. I was told that I didn't understand God and was just "spouting off the rhetoric of preachers."

I said, "No, it isn't rhetoric. Its truth. Once you have a personal relationship with God you understand that every promise in the bible is correct."

I was told you can't have a personal relationship with God "because He doesn't work that way any more."

I thought, at first, given how much this person brags that they are a wonderful Christian wittness, and can't wait to tell others about Christ, that he'd been hurt, and was going through a period of anger with God. I gently tried to turn the conversation that way. I was told if I think God still answers prayer I'm just giving God credit for what humans do.

I pointed to a miraculous healing in my sister's life and another in my own life, he said, "Even Buddhists get healed with their prayers."

The person claims to believe in the Bible. In fact, at one point, the person said the bible saves people. I gently pointed out that the bible teaches that Christ is salvation, and that Christ came in love. He came back with, "If God loved us why would we need a savior."

I asked him, point blank, if he was trying to play devil's advocate. He said no, that he truly believes what he is saying.

He basically thinks he is a Christian, but that everything the churches of the world teach about Christ iswrong, and that he has figured it all out.

He believes mankind outgrew a need for a God that interacts with us on a daily basis, and that the larger miracles of the bible like the parting of the Red Sea only happened so God could prove to man that God has power. I asked him why God would need to "prove" anything to man?

I see no difference in what this man was saying and in what Satan himself said in Eden. "We don't need God." "God knows you can become like him."

I've been a Christian for over 40 years. I've witnessed to people who were hostile atheists, former Satanists, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist - I've never heard any of them speak so horribly about Christ, and yet this person was loudly proclaiming that he is a Christian and he knows better than all the other people. I've wittnessed to Christians going through difficult times who are angry at God - this wasn't what was going on.

This conversation went on for hours. This person is 100% convinced he is a Christian and that he is saved.
But he believes he is saved because he "figured it out" and "does what I'm supposed to do."

I said, "You've read the scripture. You know that the bible teaches we're saved through faith, not of works, lest any man should boast, but you tell me "if God exists," I don't see how those two are compatible."

He said, "He exists, he just doesn't interact with us anymore. We grew up. He doesn't need to bother us. Its like a parent with grown children. He's done raising us so we have to do it on our own now."

When I tried to give the plan of salvation to him, he cut me off. Told me that was "just preacher drivel".

This man is divorced, and for 2 weekends a month, and most of the summer, he is teaching two young girls his version of Christianity.

He is also now bragging about how he is witenssing to people on line.

It went from stunning me, to worrying me, to flat out frightening me.
You ask him this question? If you were to die today and go before heaven's throne and were asked: "Why should I let you into heaven?" What would you say? His answer will tell you if he is a Christian. If he gives any other answer other then by the grace of or through the cross of Jesus Christ, such as works, doing more good then bad, etc. you can tell him with certainty that he is not a Christian. Then go through a witnessing procedure with him if he is open.
 
Upvote 0

AvgJoe

Member since 2005
Site Supporter
Feb 5, 2005
2,749
1,099
Texas
✟377,816.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Private
TexasSky said:
Thank you both. I actually tried both of those things before I got frustrated enough to throw up my hands and tell him, "I don't know what you are."

I asked about a personal relationship three times. I was told that I didn't understand God and was just "spouting off the rhetoric of preachers."

I said, "No, it isn't rhetoric. Its truth. Once you have a personal relationship with God you understand that every promise in the bible is correct."

I was told you can't have a personal relationship with God "because He doesn't work that way any more."

I thought, at first, given how much this person brags that they are a wonderful Christian wittness, and can't wait to tell others about Christ, that he'd been hurt, and was going through a period of anger with God. I gently tried to turn the conversation that way. I was told if I think God still answers prayer I'm just giving God credit for what humans do.

I pointed to a miraculous healing in my sister's life and another in my own life, he said, "Even Buddhists get healed with their prayers."

The person claims to believe in the Bible. In fact, at one point, the person said the bible saves people. I gently pointed out that the bible teaches that Christ is salvation, and that Christ came in love. He came back with, "If God loved us why would we need a savior."

I asked him, point blank, if he was trying to play devil's advocate. He said no, that he truly believes what he is saying.

He basically thinks he is a Christian, but that everything the churches of the world teach about Christ iswrong, and that he has figured it all out.

He believes mankind outgrew a need for a God that interacts with us on a daily basis, and that the larger miracles of the bible like the parting of the Red Sea only happened so God could prove to man that God has power. I asked him why God would need to "prove" anything to man?

I see no difference in what this man was saying and in what Satan himself said in Eden. "We don't need God." "God knows you can become like him."

I've been a Christian for over 40 years. I've witnessed to people who were hostile atheists, former Satanists, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist - I've never heard any of them speak so horribly about Christ, and yet this person was loudly proclaiming that he is a Christian and he knows better than all the other people. I've wittnessed to Christians going through difficult times who are angry at God - this wasn't what was going on.

This conversation went on for hours. This person is 100% convinced he is a Christian and that he is saved.
But he believes he is saved because he "figured it out" and "does what I'm supposed to do."

I said, "You've read the scripture. You know that the bible teaches we're saved through faith, not of works, lest any man should boast, but you tell me "if God exists," I don't see how those two are compatible."

He said, "He exists, he just doesn't interact with us anymore. We grew up. He doesn't need to bother us. Its like a parent with grown children. He's done raising us so we have to do it on our own now."

When I tried to give the plan of salvation to him, he cut me off. Told me that was "just preacher drivel".

This man is divorced, and for 2 weekends a month, and most of the summer, he is teaching two young girls his version of Christianity.

He is also now bragging about how he is witenssing to people on line.

It went from stunning me, to worrying me, to flat out frightening me.

The best suggestion I can think of is to pray, pray and pray some more. I don't usually know what to pray when praying for someone to find Jesus. God knows what situation, or chain of events, will bring each unbeliever to the cross of Christ. That is what I pray for, that God will make that situation, or chain of events, a reality in that person's life.
 
Upvote 0

Mskedi

Senior Veteran
Dec 13, 2005
4,165
518
47
✟29,300.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Green
I think your friend has some valid questions and is trying to figure out how to reconcile what is said in the Bible and church with what he experiences daily. Pat responses like "do you have a relationship with Christ?" aren't going to answer those questions, and it's possible you won't be able to answer them to his satisfaction, either. What you can do is continue to hold firm to your beliefs while you talk to him.

TexasSky said:
I pointed to a miraculous healing in my sister's life and another in my own life, he said, "Even Buddhists get healed with their prayers."
This is a tough one. Other religions do see results from their prayers, so, when faced with this first hand (as I have been), you start to wonder -- are all my answered prayers coincidences? Does God answer the prayers of people of all faiths? It's not an easy thing to work through, and could be at the heart of some of the other things he's saying.

"If God loved us why would we need a savior."
This question has been around forever, and likely will continue to be. Apologists try to answer it frequently. Perhaps you could mention some of the writers he may find answers from, though I'll admit, the answer are nubilous at best.

I asked him, point blank, if he was trying to play devil's advocate. He said no, that he truly believes what he is saying.
[/quote]
 
Upvote 0