Circumcision

[Aradia]

Loss of sexual sensitivity

Sex isn't pleasurable for you?

feeling wronged by those who were supposed to protect me

Why? Do you think they were being spiteful?

feeling less than whole

Is this a physiology thing, or a male insecurity thing?

increased difficulty in masturbation

It's difficult to touch? Really?

large visual scar reminder

But is the scar itself negative, or is it simply a reminder?

people in other countries commenting asking why it isn't "natural," just to name some.

Do you really care what other people think?

 

[Woden84]

I'm curious -- for those men who are angry and/or upset about having been circumcised as a baby, what negative effects have you suffered?

The effect of having a part of my body chopped off for no good reason without my consent isn't negative enough?

 

[selfinflikted]

Loss of sexual sensitivity, feeling wronged by those who were supposed to protect me, feeling less than whole, increased difficulty in masturbation, large visual scar reminder, people in other countries commenting asking why it isn't "natural," just to name some.

Not to mention a choice that should've been solely mine, was made for me.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

I'm going to alter my argument slightly: lets' imagine just as an example that it's perfectly natural for some men to be born without foreskins. It's not a deformity, it's just someone you either have or you don't (like having either brown or blue eyes). Would we consider not having a foreskin to be a major disadvantage? Would we demand surgery for these unfortunate people? I doubt it.

I don't intent to sound cruel but I get the feeling that a lot of the people here arguing against circumcision do so because it wasn't their choice, not because having a foreskin is so important.

 

[Veritas]

The US is not a developing country, so why would infant circumcision be necessary there? You have good hygiene overall, as far as I know.

As for aesthetics, most non-American women are satisfied with intact foreskins.

Not according to surveys. 95% of all prostitutes in the UK prefer men cut. I would assume they have a lot of experience in the matter.

I've got some reasoning. Given the choice I want my foreskin back, but thats impossible.
Man, it's a good thing all those babies having sex are not giving each other STDs.

Babies grow up.

The difference between being forced to go to church as a child and being circumcised as a child is that you can choose to stop going to church as an adult (and probably even as a teenager), but you can't get your foreskin back.

You don't need it back.

So why don't you apply this to female circumcision? Sure, they lose out on sexual pleasures, but life isn't fair! It's not like they can't lead normal lives otherwise. The parent just made the decision for them and if they resent or disagree then too bad.

Are you serious? Please do some research on female genital mutilation. In no way does it even come close to male circumcision. And lack of pleasure is the least of it. Google it, dude and develope a little compassion for what females in many parts of the world a subject to. The reason's for it are also completely different.

 

[selfinflikted]

I don't intent to sound cruel but I get the feeling that a lot of the people here arguing against circumcision do so because it wasn't their choice, not because having a foreskin is so important.

This, exactly. I don't understand why it's so hard for people to understand this. No, the world isn't ending because I don't have foreskin anymore. No, it doesn't negatively affect me sexually, because I don't have any other frame of reference for comparison. No, my parents didn't slight me, they weren't malicious, nor spiteful. It's MY PENIS(!!) and I should make decisions about a part of my body I place a great deal of value in, myself.

 

[OGM]

Why remove a perfectly functional piece of tissue if has not been found to be diseased or defective? Fortunately, most technologically advanced countries do not engage in this practice. In countries where it is more of a choice; very few men actually have it done when they are old enough to make the decision.

If foreskins were so problematic, you would think elective adult circumsions would be much more prevalent. But they are not... Why do you suppose that is?

 

[Aradia]

The effect of having a part of my body chopped off for no good reason without my consent isn't negative enough?

No, it isn't. What real damage has it caused to your life? Did your parents tell you they did it for no good reason?

 

[Aradia]

This, exactly. I don't understand why it's so hard for people to understand this. No, the world isn't ending because I don't have foreskin anymore. No, it doesn't negatively affect me sexually, because I don't have any other frame of reference for comparison. No, my parents didn't slight me, they weren't malicious, nor spiteful. It's MY PENIS(!!) and I should make decisions about a part of my body I place a great deal of value in, myself.

And yet it happened, and it's nothing you can change. Which is why, to me, it seems like nothing more than pointless whining.

 

[selfinflikted]

No, it isn't. What real damage has it caused to your life? Did your parents tell you they did it for no good reason?

Mine did it for religious reasons. And to me, that's not a good reason at all.

Incidently, are you playing devil's advocate on this issue? I've seen a few of your posts in other threads, and this line of postings don't match up to other posts I've read. Just curious.

 

[yasic]

Sex isn't pleasurable for you?

I have a female friend who was raped, and has since then told me sex is a lot less pleasurable for her and she does not choose to engage in it as often as she did in the past. She still does get pleasure from it to the point of still doing it.

Would the argument "Sex is still pleasurable for you, so what?" be a good one on her? If not why do you feel it works here?

It's difficult to touch? Really?

Having a foreskin myself, I honestly cannot see how I could go about masturbating without one. For one, without a foreskin masturbation would require a tissue or sock (or whatever, not really sure what other guys use?) whereas with a foreskin this is never an issue.

 

[selfinflikted]

And yet it happened, and it's nothing you can change. Which is why, to me, it seems like nothing more than pointless whining.

It's all about the choice that was taken from me and made for me. And in reference to this thread, I think discussion about it is valid. What if there's a pregnant woman lurking in this thread, who changes her mind about having her soon-to-be-born son circumcised because of all the male dissent here? I think it's a good thing.

And, if you think this is whining, you ain't heard nothin' yet.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

This, exactly. I don't understand why it's so hard for people to understand this. No, the world isn't ending because I don't have foreskin anymore. No, it doesn't negatively affect me sexually, because I don't have any other frame of reference for comparison. No, my paren't didn't slight me, they weren't malicious, nor spiteful. It's MY PENIS(!!) and I should make decisions about a part of my body I place a great deal of value in, myself.

Fair enough - so the debate on the benefits / disadvantages of cut vs. uncut is a bit moot, since there aren't that many differences anyway. It's about choice.

To alter my argument yet again, would we apply this argument to anything other than circumcision? There are many cases where parents choose surgery for their children to remove unsightly birth marks or additional finger or toes (polydactylism). As far as I know there are very few debates on whether this is right or wrong, it's the parent's choice.

 

[yasic]

I'm going to alter my argument slightly: lets' imagine just as an example that it's perfectly natural for some men to be born without foreskins. It's not a deformity, it's just someone you either have or you don't (like having either brown or blue eyes). Would we consider not having a foreskin to be a major disadvantage? Would we demand surgery for these unfortunate people? I doubt it.

I don't intent to sound cruel but I get the feeling that a lot of the people here arguing against circumcision do so because it wasn't their choice, not because having a foreskin is so important.

Yes, I would consider not having a foreskin to be a major disadvantage.

If I lost my foreskin through some accident, I would pay upwards of $2,000 to get it back if I could (for instance if a doctor could immediately re-attach it) just for the tangible benefits.

As I said before, masturbation (both single and mutual) would be much more difficult for me without the foreskin.

 

[selfinflikted]

Having a foreskin myself, I honestly cannot see how I could go about masturbating without one. For one, without a foreskin masturbation would require a tissue or sock (or whatever, not really sure what other guys use?) whereas with a foreskin this is never an issue.

Umm, no. COPIOUS amounts of lubrication, maybe. But never anything scratchy, like a sock. OUCH!

 

[Veritas]

So does the vagina. So should those routinely be removed? And please define "much more likely" and provide data to back that up. I've certainly read that they are more likely, it's that "much" qualifier that I question. Especially in developed nations, where it could be controlled by personal hygiene, which is harmless, as opposed to minor surgery, which is oftentimes not.

I hate to be graphic, but a healthy woman's vagina is naturally very clean. Because this is the birth canal, it was designed by nature to be so. In fact, overwashing is a common reason for bacterial infections since it also eliminates "good" bacteria which keeps the bad in check. Besides, you can't really "remove" it, you can sew it up which is what they due as part of female genital mutiliation. All they leave is a small hole for urine and blood to pass through. BTW, I already provided links which I'm guessing you're not interested in.

I really don't get the STI angle either. If you're circumcised, are you seriously going to say "Welp I don't have to use condoms because my penis is without a foreskin and therefore impervious to disease!"

Please educate yourself before making absurd statement like that.

It's that much different because it's MY PENIS. I was dragged to church as a kid, much like you were. The damage (to my psyche) was not irreparable. The damage (for lack of a better term) done to MY PENIS(!!) is irreparable.

Are you saying there is something wrong with your penis? That it doesn't "work"?

Well, it's not the end of the world, for sure. I just believe that this is a personal choice that should be made for oneself, and not by anyone else

Do you feel the same way about vaccines? What about other medical treatment for which the parents feel is best for their child?

Would you support parents having the right to tattoo their children?

Would you support a parents right to breastfeed, homeschool, vaccinate or not, get ears pierced for their children?

 

[selfinflikted]

Fair enough - so the debate on the benefits / disadvantages of cut vs. uncut is a bit moot, since there aren't that many differences anyway. It's about choice.

80% of my argument is about the choice, yes.

To alter my argument yet again, would we apply this argument to anything other than circumcision? There are many cases where parents choose surgery for their children to remove unsightly birth marks or additional finger or toes (polydactylism). As far as I know there are very few debates on whether this is right or wrong, it's the parent's choice.

I think it should be up to the child. Case in point: While my parents didn't bother to wait until I was old enough to ask me if I'd want to be circumcised, they DID however, ask me if I wanted braces for my teeth when I was mature enough to make that decision. I turned down the offer for braces. Why couldn't they have applied this same courtesy that they afforded my teeth to me penis? Penis > teeth, imo. (just being funny there. Or maybe not)

 

[yasic]

Umm, no. COPIOUS amounts of lubrication, maybe. But never anything scratchy, like a sock. OUCH!

But what do you do with the excrete? What do you hold it in?

 

[selfinflikted]

Are you saying there is something wrong with your penis? That it doesn't "work"?

No, I never said that, and I don't see how you could've inferred it either.

Do you feel the same way about vaccines? What about other medical treatment for which the parents feel is best for their child?

No, I don't feel the same about vaccines. Vaccines are not removing an otherwise healthy part of one's body. Apples to oranges.

 

[selfinflikted]

But what do you do with the excrete? What do you hold it in?

The same as folks with a foreskin? Tissue, napkin, etc.