Circumcision

[Skaloop]

Is it moral and/or ethical to circumcise male newborns? The procedure is painful and unnecessary and results in a permanent disfigurement. I adamantly oppose the performing of circumcisions.

The only legitimate argument in favour of circumcision is to do it for religious reasons. In that case, shouldn't the choice be up to the individual when he chooses to follow the rites and traditions of his religion?

The other primary arguments in favour of circumcision are health and appearance. These arguments are inadequate.

The health risks of non-circumcision are minimal at worst and easily preventable. Arguing for circumcision to prevent disease is like arguing for tooth extraction to prevent cavities or full mastectomies to prevent breast cancer.

The argument about appearance, that a circumcised penis looks better than an uncircumcised penis, is a non-starter; aesthetics are hardly a good reason for performing surgery on an infant.

 

[flicka]

I don't know. There have been all kinds of things in the new about this the last couple of weeks linking it to reduced infection, particularly AIDS. I'm not an expert and haven't really been following it but a quick Google turned up tons of info you might want to read. Apparently there are some benefits. And to be honest non of the circumcised men I know would want it any other way.

 

[Trinityness]

Circumcision is in the Bible, so therefore it is right.

However we do not need to worry about reduced STD infections from circumcision if everyone remains abstinent.

 

[Mrs.Sidhe]

Most of the infections you'll avoid are UTI's...

If you teach a child to clean himself I don't think there is a need for this kinda of procedure. These infections can be avoided by simple cleaning and pretty much making sure you are taking care of yourself.

 

[united4Peace]

I believe its the choice of the parents.
I had mine circumsized.
I have a few friends however who never, they dont critize me for my choice and I dont for their choice.
However one friend ended up having her son circumsized by the time he was 2. Her husband and the rest of her family did the "I told you so" song and dance which I thought was rude of them.
I also know grown men who ended up having to be circumsized and from what I hear its quite painful.
Now not all men need circumsized, infact it is rare, though it does happen. I just didnt want my sons to chance that.
When I had them done at about a week old, they never had any pain killers, and they did not cry either for the circumcision itself, they did cry though because of being restrained.
Neither had any infections either, so everything turned out fine

To add, I didnt do it because of a religious reason, the doctors here gives the parents the pros and cons and lets the parents decide for themselves.

 

[R0D]

Is it moral and/or ethical to circumcise male newborns? The procedure is painful and unnecessary and results in a permanent disfigurement. I adamantly oppose the performing of circumcisions.

The only legitimate argument in favour of circumcision is to do it for religious reasons. In that case, shouldn't the choice be up to the individual when he chooses to follow the rites and traditions of his religion?

The other primary arguments in favour of circumcision are health and appearance. These arguments are inadequate.

The health risks of non-circumcision are minimal at worst and easily preventable. Arguing for circumcision to prevent disease is like arguing for tooth extraction to prevent cavities or full mastectomies to prevent breast cancer.

The argument about appearance, that a circumcised penis looks better than an uncircumcised penis, is a non-starter; aesthetics are hardly a good reason for performing surgery on an infant.

That's nice that you have an opinion on what is a legitimate reason and what isn't, but you really don't have a say in the matter when it comes to my kids.

 

[Q2004]

I would vote that Forcing elective surgery on a newborn is immoral. I feel it's akin to performing plastic surgery on the kid.

 

[Skaloop]

I also know grown men who ended up having to be circumsized and from what I hear its quite painful.
Now not all men need circumsized, infact it is rare, though it does happen. I just didnt want my sons to chance that.

The reason non-circumcised men occasionally need circumcision later in life is usually due to improper cleaning of the foreskin by the parents in early life. Pulling back the foreskin of a baby too vigourously or too far can lead to small abrasions of the foreskin, which scar over and lose elasticity, resulting in an adult foreskin that cannot be stretched and must be removed. This is a fault in parental care, not the lack of circumcision.

 

[Skaloop]

I don't know. There have been all kinds of things in the new about this the last couple of weeks linking it to reduced infection, particularly AIDS. I'm not an expert and haven't really been following it but a quick Google turned up tons of info you might want to read. Apparently there are some benefits. And to be honest non of the circumcised men I know would want it any other way.

The AIDS risk is pretty much a red-herring. Does non-circumcision make it easier to contract HIV? Possibly. But circumcision doesn't prevent it, and so either way there is a significant risk. Again, this is easily managed through safe sex practices. The slight decrease in HIV transmission is hardly enough to offset the cruelty of the procedure.

There are also benefits of not circumcising such as increased sensitivity in the head of the penis, and therefore greater pleasure suring sexual activity.

Oh, and none of the uncircumcised men I know want it any other way, either.

 

[united4Peace]

The reason non-circumcised men occasionally need circumcision later in life is usually due to improper cleaning of the foreskin by the parents in early life. Pulling back the foreskin of a baby too vigourously or too far can lead to small abrasions of the foreskin, which scar over and lose elasticity, resulting in an adult foreskin that cannot be stretched and must be removed. This is a fault in parental care, not the lack of circumcision.

So why then in a family, one boy will end up needing a circumcision at a later age and another may never need one?
The one that had to have her son done was told by the doctor that it is rare, therefore if she had another boy she would not get him circumcised as chances are it would not happen again.
Her son had devoloped a urinary infection...it happens, again rare. Myself I just wasnt taking chances.
But that is me and only me. Each to their own.

 

[Skaloop]

So why then in a family, one boy will end up needing a circumcision at a later age and another may never need one?
The one that had to have her son done was told by the doctor that it is rare, therefore if she had another boy she would not get him circumcised as chances are it would not happen again.
Her son had devoloped a urinary infection...it happens, again rare. Myself I just wasnt taking chances.
But that is me and only me. Each to their own.

I dunno. Same reason one kid'll end up as a criminal and the other won't. Different kids turn out different.

 

[flicka]

Unless circumcised men rise up and protest this isn't really an issue.

 

[Mrs.Sidhe]

I think it could be seen as an issue because the parents are deciding for the child rather than let the child make their own decisions for this surgery. A lot of parents do it just because the father is or for aesthetic reasons. I don't think that's honestly a reason for doing what could be considered mild cosmetic surgery on an infant.

So in that regard it would be a moral or ethical issue--whether the parents should be deciding for a child who cannot speak for itself what parts it wants nicked.

 

[flicka]

I think it could be seen as an issue because the parents are deciding for the child rather than let the child make their own decisions for this surgery.

Yeah but I decide things for my kids all the time, and make decisions (including medical ones) on their behalf. It's part of the job. If I want to have their tonsils removed I will make it happen and not wait until they are older and can decide for themselves. If I want to give them vaccinations I will. My own parents had an extra toe I had removed when I was an infant. It wasn't hurting anything but I'm sure not going to argue with their decision. I don't really see the difference. I don't see this kind of power being abused in todays society...ie: parents getting to do all kinds of horrible medical things to their kids for no reason at all, etc. so I don't see a problem.

I have heard that circumcision is becoming less and less popular with new parents, so circ opponents need only wait another couple of generations and it may just go away on it's own.

 

[united4Peace]

Yeah but I decide things for my kids all the time, and make decisions (including medical ones) on their behalf. It's part of the job. If I want to have their tonsils removed I will make it happen and not wait until they are older and can decide for themselves. If I want to give them vaccinations I will. My own parents had an extra toe I had removed when I was an infant. It wasn't hurting anything but I'm sure not going to argue with their decision. I don't really see the difference. I don't see this kind of power being abused in todays society...ie: parents getting to do all kinds of horrible medical things to their kids for no reason at all, etc. so I don't see a problem.

I have heard that circumcision is becoming less and less popular with new parents, so circ opponents need only wait another couple of generations and it may just go away on it's own.

This is true.
I had my son's tongue cut as he was tongue tied so that he was able to have movement.
Others have left their childs tongue alone.
I also had tubes put in his ear.
So yes Ive made decisions on thier part.
Whether right or wrong, it's something we as parents have to just hope that we are doing the right things for.
I went over the pro's and con's and decided on what I decided.
I can see why others chose not too and I think that is great for them. This was my choice though.

 

[Mrs.Sidhe]

Yeah but I decide things for my kids all the time, and make decisions (including medical ones) on their behalf. It's part of the job. If I want to have their tonsils removed I will make it happen and not wait until they are older and can decide for themselves. If I want to give them vaccinations I will. My own parents had an extra toe I had removed when I was an infant. It wasn't hurting anything but I'm sure not going to argue with their decision. I don't really see the difference. I don't see this kind of power being abused in todays society...ie: parents getting to do all kinds of horrible medical things to their kids for no reason at all, etc. so I don't see a problem.

I have heard that circumcision is becoming less and less popular with new parents, so circ opponents need only wait another couple of generations and it may just go away on it's own.

Well I would not compare tonsils being taken out and vaccinations being given to a child as those are medically necessary. Circumcison is not and this is stated by the American Academy of Pediatrics. Most doctors I have talked to say it is simply a personal choice, one that I wasn't bashing anyone on here for making so I see no reason for the irritation and jumping to defend one's decision in some of the posts I've read in this topic.

 

[Lynden1000]

I don't think it should be covered by insurance, since it's not medically necessary. If the parent wants to pay to have it done, then i guess that's their business, just like parents who have their children's ears pierced.

 

[JGG]

My son's circumsized. I didn't think much of it until the day of (when I freaked out), but found out later it was optional in the Jewish faith.

 

[united4Peace]

The way I figure...my kids are going to sue me for something, so why not start from birth LOL

Going back to the Bible, I hope that no one circumcised their child based on the Bible. If they did well...oh my. If your planning on doing so, dont circumcise at all!!

For those about to have babies, please do lots of reading (medical Pros and Cons), and then make your own choice, based on your own knowledge...

Okay, now Im outta this topic.

 

[fuzzymel]

I still think the person should be able to choose. As a baby you cannot choose. Plus I heard that they dont even give the poor thing pain killers. If thats true what horrific pain the poor thing has to go through.