Circumcision, help please?

Leanna · Jun 25, 2006

~Mrs.A2J~ said:
I've read the complete opposite. On my September 2006 birth board the topic of circumcision has come up a lot lately as we're getting closer to our due dates. Many of the women who have been with cut and uncut men have noticed a difference and prefer uncircumcised. I have also read many stories of men who did say they suffered a loss of sexual pleasure.

There are a lot of nerve endings in the foreskin I guess, I forget how many but I could find out if you want.

OreGal said:
No, that's okay...just seems like there was a bit of an 'agenda' here and this wasn't just about the OP learning about circumcision But thank you for the ever so kind invitation not to reply.

Well it only "seems" that way. I wanted to give the circ side a whirl to see if I was getting bad information from the anti-circ board. If you want to call that an agenda, so be it. Right now you are not helping the conversation, however, because all that is going on is emotions and no information. I am looking for information not "feelings." Here's the deal, I was already called a sexual abuser on the other board because David is circumsized. I didn't agree with them, but I read their information anyway and their links. Now I am looking to hear the other side and I am getting *more* emotion and its getting kind of old. Can we just stick with the information?

And you know the last time I checked, males don't have the edge on information. They would just have MORE feelings on both sides. Since I am NOT looking for feelings, as EXPRESSLY stated in the OP I do not care to discuss this with males but with anyone, male or female, who has information. I'm glad we cleared that up.

katelyn · Jun 25, 2006

Katydid said:
One in ~400-900 uncircumcised men will get cancer of the penis. A quarter of these will die from it and the rest will require at least partial penile amputation as a result. (In contrast, invasive penile cancer never occurs or is infinitesimally rare in men circumcised at birth.) (Data from studies in the USA, Denmark and Australia, which are not to be confused with the often quoted, but misleading, annual incidence figures of 1 in 100,000).

This was the most concerning statistic to me, but it sounds like with proper hygiene, the risk for uncircumcised males is not any greater.

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/c...are_the_risk_factors_for_penile_cancer_35.asp

I guess the main question I have is especially for families with no prior experience with uncircumcised males, how do we make sure our boys keep up with their hygiene?

HeKnowsMyName · Jun 25, 2006

Leanna said:
Yes, why?

Someone told me the other day that 80% of the worlds males are uncircumsized. I don't know if its true though.

I was just curiouse since you already have a son. I'm assuming you're asking about this now because you are expecting again?

Leanna · Jun 25, 2006

katelyn said:
This was the most concerning statistic to me, but it sounds like with proper hygiene, the risk for uncircumcised males is not any greater.

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_4_2X_What_are_the_risk_factors_for_penile_cancer_35.asp

I guess the main question I have is especially for families with no prior experience with uncircumcised males, how do we make sure our boys keep up with their hygiene?

That was a good article. I wish they would link to these studies so I can see the number of people involved and stuff.

Leanna · Jun 25, 2006

Prissanna said:
I was just curiouse since you already have a son. I'm assuming you're asking about this now because you are expecting again?

It just happened to come up.... and so I decided to find out what I could. Since we do want 4-5 children, I figure its likely we will have another boy at some point. We hope.

HeKnowsMyName · Jun 25, 2006

I just realized I can't spell curious.

Leanna · Jun 25, 2006

~Mrs. A2J~ said:
Here's a great Position Paper from the American Academy Family Physicians Care & Research.

I found this post on the first page, I missed it

Male infants account for 75% of urinary tract infections (UTIs) among infants less than 3 months of age, and comprise 11% of UTIs in infants between 3 to 8 months of age. (11) One study found that of 62 male infants with a confirmed UTI, 95% were uncircumcised. (11) Another study reviewed a 5-year period of U.S. military hospital records and found that 0.14% of 80,274 circumcised infants and 1.4% of 27,319 uncircumcised infants developed a UTI.(12) Although an uncircumcised infant has been estimated to have 3 to 20 times the risk of developing a UTI compared to a circumcised infant, the absolute risk increase is about 1%.

If your boy gets a UTI, how do you take care of one? Are there any serious risks with one?

Penile carcinoma is a rare disease in the United States with an estimated 750 to 1,000 cases diagnosed each year. There is a large variation in the incidence of penile cancer among countries where most men are uncircumcised. For example, Denmark has an annual incidence of 0.8 cases per 100,000 men compared to India which has an annual incidence of 10.5. (4) As with UTIs, the relative risk for uncircumcised men is a moderate 3.2, but the annual absolute risk increase is extremely small at 0.31 cases per 100,000 men per year, which would correspond to a NNT of over 300,000 to prevent one case of penile cancer per year. (20,4) However, one study estimates that 600 circumcisions are needed to prevent one lifetime case of penile cancer, and another study presents a NNT of 900. (21,3) Based on these NNTs, the absolute risk reduction for preventing one case of penile cancer per lifetime is less than 0.2%. In general, careful hygiene is believed to be important in preventing penile cancer. (5)

So there's another one katlyn...

The effect of circumcision on penile sensation or sexual satisfaction is unknown. Because the epithelium of a circumcised glans becomes cornified, and because some feel nerve over-stimulation leads to desensitization, many believe that the glans of a circumcised penis is less sensitive. Opinions differ about how this decreased sensitivity, which may result in prolonged time to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], affects sexual satisfaction. An investigation of the exteroceptive and light tactile discrimination of the glans of circumcised and uncircumcised men found no difference on comparison. (24) No valid evidence to date, however, supports the notion that being circumcised affects sexual sensation or satisfaction.

Overall that was the most helpful article to me and I don't know how I missed it. It cited a lot of studies and was completely unbiased.

~Mrs. A2J~ · Jun 25, 2006

Leanna said:
If your boy gets a UTI, how do you take care of one? Are there any serious risks with one?

You treat it just like you would any other person with a UTI. Sometimes drinking more fluids will take care of it. Other times antibiotics need to be prescribed. They are very easily treated. On a side note if you are breastfeeding that will help prevent UTIs in infant boys. Untreated UTIs in anybody can lead to kidney problems.

Linnis · Jun 25, 2006

Jeremy had a little bit of burning when he peed once, I upped his water intake and he got to have cran-grape juice. If that hadn't worked or if he was too little, we'd have went to the doc for antibiotics like I do when I get them. Just like Mrs. A2J said if you leave it, like in anyone it will get worse.

Athene · Jun 26, 2006

katelyn said:
I guess the main question I have is especially for families with no prior experience with uncircumcised males, how do we make sure our boys keep up with their hygiene?

You tell them that as soon as they can retract their foreskin they should wash underneath it. My husband and I had a discussion with my son about this not so long ago and we demonstrated how it should be done with a balloon and a tube. And then when he's in the shower or having a bath I just remind him to wash under his foreskin, simple.

NothingButTheBlood · Jun 26, 2006

I am amazed at how judgement some Christian women are being about this to their sisters. Anyway, we found no medical, spiritual or cleaning issues with or without the circumcission. It became at that point a matter of preference. I told my husband to make the final call and he chose circumcission. Mostly so he will look like dad and most other kids he'll encounter. Which makes us horrible mutilators to some women here.

Manna · Jun 26, 2006

I have a question -- What about the military? I have found absolutely no medical reasons to circ, but I understand that if a man enters the military, it's required for him to be cut. Is this true, or just a myth?

Mling · Jun 26, 2006

My understanding, like many other people have said, is that the health problems can be prevented with basic hygene. If I end up getting this choice (I plan to adopt, so I might not) I plan not to circumcise because I see it as uncecessary surgery. That's surgery that can go wrong...pain that does not need to be inflicted, and the loss of nerves that don't need to be lost. If, for whatever reason, an uncircumsized boy needs to be circumsized, fine. But a cut kid can't go back.

~Nikki~ · Jun 26, 2006

Mling said:
My understanding, like many other people have said, is that the health problems can be prevented with basic hygene. If I end up getting this choice (I plan to adopt, so I might not) I plan not to circumcise because I see it as uncecessary surgery. That's surgery that can go wrong...pain that does not need to be inflicted, and the loss of nerves that don't need to be lost. If, for whatever reason, an uncircumsized boy needs to be circumsized, fine. But a cut kid can't go back.

I think that's pretty much the way dh and I see things at the moment. We're open to change if we're convicted by God that it's the right thing for *us* to do, but right now we're not convicted of that, and I think we probably won't circumcise unless medically necessary.

NothingButTheBlood said:
Mostly so he will look like dad and most other kids he'll encounter. Which makes us horrible mutilators to some women here.

Who said that???
If you're referring to my first post I said that the *doctors* in this country, well, in my local town anyway, say that's it's barbaric...wasn't saying that from my own point of view...

Just wanted to clear that up in case you were referring to my post...

Leanna · Jun 26, 2006

NothingButTheBlood said:
Which makes us horrible mutilators to some women here.

I didn't see anyone say that.

Marie D · Jun 26, 2006

Well I don't have children (though we're trying for one!) and dh and I live in a country where routine circumcision isn't heard of, but he's circumcised, because he had a problem with his foreskin as a young man. The doctor told him that this is very commonplace and something like 1 in 8 have to have the op before the age of 25 due to foreskin problems (he has several friends who needed it).

If we have a son, or sons, we'll definitely get them circumcised because it avoids foreskin problems in later life and reduces risk of a number of diseases as others have posted here. Plus, like someone else wrote, although as Christians we don't *have to* follow the covenant that Jews do, God wouldn't have asked Abraham's people to do it unless it was beneficial.

Some people have written that circumcision makes a man less sensitive you-know-where. I've read that some men climax too early, causing frustration for their wives. My dh and I don't have this problem, and I wonder if his circumcision may be helping, in which case I count it as another blessing from the Lord.

Leanna · Jun 26, 2006

Marie D said:
Well I don't have children (though we're trying for one!) and dh and I live in a country where routine circumcision isn't heard of, but he's circumcised, because he had a problem with his foreskin as a young man. The doctor told him that this is very commonplace and something like 1 in 8 have to have the op before the age of 25 due to foreskin problems (he has several friends who needed it).

Do you know where a solid source says this? This would be of great interest to me. Thanks.

~Nikki~ · Jun 26, 2006

Well I don't have children (though we're trying for one!) and dh and I live in a country where routine circumcision isn't heard of, but he's circumcised, because he had a problem with his foreskin as a young man. The doctor told him that this is very commonplace and something like 1 in 8 have to have the op before the age of 25 due to foreskin problems (he has several friends who needed it).

Do you know where a solid source says this? This would be of great interest to me. Thanks.

I know Marie stated that it was people under the age of 25 who had the op due to foreskin problems, but maybe (just speculating) they could have been done at a young age, possibly be due to ill informed parents trying to retract the foreskin while it's not actually retractable.

This happened to someone I know...the mother panicked thinking the foreskin was too tight, tried to force it to retract in order to wash underneath, caused all sorts of inflammation and soreness, took him to the doctor who said he had to be circumcised, when if he'd not been 'meddled with ' in the first place, everything would probably have been ok. But the forced pulling back of the foreskin with the kid crying because it hurt so much, did enough damage that circumcision then became necessary. All because people have been left ill-educated in this regard...

lin1235 · Jun 27, 2006

I do believe that it was beneficial to the Jews - in the sense that they didn't have soap and hot water on tap so it must have been much harder to keep basic hygiene going. But I also believe God included the foreskin in His design of the male penis for a reason! It's not like He made a design fault and therefore had the Israelites reverse it.

In South Africa, almost no babies are circumcised except for religious reasons. In most black cultures here, the males are circumcised when they reach adulthood as part of a big ceremony and so to circumcise them as babies would mean they miss out on that.

My husband is not circumcised, he says it is uber-easy to keep everything clean and healthy and he'll teach our kids how if we do have any sons. I'm not too excited about the concept of unnecessary surgery, no matter how minor.

Mling · Jun 27, 2006

This happened to someone I know...the mother panicked thinking the foreskin was too tight, tried to force it to retract in order to wash underneath, caused all sorts of inflammation and soreness, took him to the doctor who said he had to be circumcised, when if he'd not been 'meddled with ' in the first place, everything would probably have been ok. But the forced pulling back of the foreskin with the kid crying because it hurt so much, did enough damage that circumcision then became necessary. All because people have been left ill-educated in this regard...

I think this board needs a "smilie" that's completely freaking out. I'm actually shaking over here. Gah! How...why...GAAHH!!

Circumcision, help please?

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