Cincinnati Police/death of Nathaniel Jones

[Diakonos]

I watched the video clip of the Cincinnati police using force to subdue (and eventual kill) Nathaniel Jones. It was very disturbing to say the least. For the most part, it looks as if the media is sympathetic with the police officers. Chief Streicher defended that actions of his officers stating that they “followed procedure.” Various articles have been quick to point out that Jones was the aggressor, and attribute his erratic behavior and demise to his enlarged heart (according to the coroner report) and the traces of PCP and cocaine found in his blood. The fact that is not being highly publicized is that there is a 96-second gap in the police videotape of fatal beating of Nathaniel Jones. The video starts with Mr. Jones not bothering anyone, then there is a gap for 96 seconds. The video conveniently comes back on when Mr. Jones lunges at police? People who witnessed the beating said that the police initiated the attacks, others said that the police started “saying things” to Jones in a harsh or derogatory manner. I’m not saying that the Cincinnati police are completely to blame for Mr. Jones’ death. I simply think we need to look at the whole picture.

 

[Yobi]

I don't know what that Chief is trying to do, he should not flat out defend his men like that. There so be a fair and thorough investigation, the video they showed is also disgusting, they kept replaying it from the moment Jane took a swing at the officier. BUt what happened before that, why are they hiding the footage?

I can't believe anyone can watch that video and just flat out says there's no excessive force involved, all standard procedures, etc. The guy was on the groud at the mercy of these officiers, they ya all need anger management controls.

 

[Force]

While there are some bad police, as a whole they are good and do a hard and underpaid job when they put their lives on the line everyday. I have many police officers and military police in my family including both of my parents. I can testify that they say their heart raced everytime they got out to do a routine traffic check just as much as if it were a chase, because you don't know how people are going to react to authority.

My dads a big guy (6'4 and built) and he is one of the most awesome people ever but I wouldnt mess with him. He always taught us that people under the influence of drugs especially the ones this guy was on can make a guy 10 times stronger than normal etc. Plus this guy was huge on top of that!

From what I saw it was his own fault and he attacked.( I never heard of any gap in the tape or witnesses) And all throughout the tape you hear them screaming instructions he wouldnt follow.

But unless you were actually present and have experience as a law enforcement officer of some kind you cant actually know what they are going through in that situation. I am on the side of the officers with as much as I know.

 

[Ampmonster]

"it looks as if the media is sympathetic with the police officers"
nope. the complete opposite is true are you sure you saw the whole tape?

 

[Michael0701]

A newswire report stated (from the coroners report) that while he showed bruising from the baton blows, none of them were above the waist and none of them damaged any organs. For anyone to not agree that, UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES, the police did in fact show restraint, you are simply ignoring the facts (as presented to date) and believe what you want to believe.

The man killed himself when he shoved the cheeseburgers down his own throat, snorted the cocaine up his own nose and inhaled the pcp into his own lungs. To redirect the blame to law enforcement is absolutely ludicrous.

 

[Ampmonster]

"To redirect the blame to law enforcement is absolutely ludicrous."

but is the specialty of liberal-police-hating media

 

[foolsparade]

A newswire report stated (from the coroners report) that while he showed bruising from the baton blows, none of them were above the waist and none of them damaged any organs. For anyone to not agree that, UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES, the police did in fact show restraint, you are simply ignoring the facts (as presented to date) and believe what you want to believe.

The man killed himself when he shoved the cheeseburgers down his own throat, snorted the cocaine up his own nose and inhaled the pcp into his own lungs. To redirect the blame to law enforcement is absolutely ludicrous.

Looks like you are wrong once again. Coroner ruled his death a Homicide...

 

[Yobi]

Not saying if he didn't take drug or took a swing at the officer. But from what everyone described he is not a violent man, and was not doing anything peculiar nor did anyone report him or anything.

So why was he approached and why such reaction from a nonviolent man who was just going about his own business.

That is why it is odd that they cut the video footage short, and did not show what happened before how it all started.

Lots of officers are good, but you do have to know there's also others that do taunt people, have tendencies to start a fight, etc.

 

[InnerPhyre]

While I think the man's death is certainly unfortunate, I don't think it's fair to place all the blame on the cops here. There can be NO justification for this man's actions. He slugged a cop. Anyone of us who had a 350 pounds man on PCP charging at us would have done the same thing. People have been lawfully shot by police for less. Did the cops have the INTENTION of killing him? Of course not. Did the beatings CAUSE his death? Most likely yes, but sneezing at the man may well have caused his death. He was 350 lbs, had an enlarged heart and had STIMULANTS in his blood stream. If that isn't a recipe for a heart attack, I don't know what is. If he had complied with the police, it would have been a non-issue, but instead he decided to charge and assault them in a flurry of anti-white racial slurs. A man on PCP feels no pain, and therefore exhibits a tremendous amount of strength. It's hard enough to subdue a 150 lb man on PCP, much less someone the size of this guy. Did the cops go overboard? Maybe....maybe not. There is no set formula in this situation. The key is that they clearly didn't mean to kill the guy. I've heard a million arguments sayings "oh they should have shot him in the leg." Great idea.....put a bullet through his femoral artery and he's dead anyway. Tazers and pepper spray may as well be feathers and tap water when used on someone under the influence of those kinds of drugs. In my opinion, a hefty portion of the blame should be plaecd on the paramedics who left the scene early and therefore could not render aid. I just have a hard time not seeing it from the cops point of view. None of them wanted to die that night, and yes....that man could have potentially killed one of them. Just a messed up situation on all fronts. Moral of the story? If the cops say "put your hands behind your back" just listen to them, for everyone's sake.

 

[Lillithspeak]

I'm not a kneejerk defender of the police, I've known too many of them for that, but when a cop tells you to do something, you're suppose to do it. Why did he lunge at the smaller cop and attack him? That's deadly force when you're 350lbs-you can suffocate someone if nothing else. He's on PCP and that's the worst drug of all for violent overreactions to situations and it gives them superhuman strength. The cops are most likely right in what they did. He had an enlarged heart and dangerous stimulants in his system and he started fighting-the additional rush of adrenaline probably was too much for his heart. So this time, they'll have to prove to me that the cops did something wrong.

 

[Ampmonster]

didnt the manager of some resteraunt call the cops?
*not sure

 

[Yobi]

I would like a complete story of why slugged the cop, and the footages that were missing before I can pass any personal judgements.

But from what I saw on the video, there's only one swing he took the rest were just him getting beaten up, over and over, while he was on the ground too. He did not use any weapons against the police, and their back up were there minute after, so the beating was not really required to put the man down, don't tell me 4 guys can't put a man to the floor without using that kind of brutal force.

The results of his death, while very unfortunate, is not what should be investigating. All we need to look at if there's any excessive use of force or not, and rest of the story of how it all started.

 

[Diakonos]

The sight of police officers repeatedly beating Nathaniel Jones with metal night sticks is sickening and appears well outside of the norm for subduing an unarmed suspect.....No one is suggesting that Jones is innocent, but neither are the arresting officers in this instance
Kweisi Mfume, President of the N.A.A.C.P.

On top of that, Cincinatti has a history of police brutallity against African-American males. Let's not forget about the riots that took place a couple a years ago over the killing of Timothy Thomas. Since then, there have been three more killings. None of the officers involved have been disciplined.

 

[burrow_owl]

from what i've seen, it does look the press is being pretty cautious about it by giving the first and last words to the Cincy police about proper procedure and whatnot - I think people are scared Cincy is gonna burn over this one, so no one wants to be the spark in the tinderbox.

 

[foolsparade]

Moral of the story? If the cops say "put your hands behind your back" just listen to them, for everyone's sake.

or they will beat you to death? Thats not the moral of the story. I am not defending the "thug".

I'm not a kneejerk defender of the police, I've known too many of them for that, but when a cop tells you to do something, you're suppose to do it. Why did he lunge at the smaller cop and attack him? That's deadly force when you're 350lbs-you can suffocate someone if nothing else. He's on PCP and that's the worst drug of all for violent overreactions to situations and it gives them superhuman strength. The cops are most likely right in what they did. He had an enlarged heart and dangerous stimulants in his system and he started fighting-the additional rush of adrenaline probably was too much for his heart. So this time, they'll have to prove to me that the cops did something wrong.

Bigger smaller thats not the issue. Niether is his weight. The cops did not know he was on PCP at the time. At this point its a lose, lose situation for everyone. Again I will note that the coroner has ruled his death a homicide.

 

[Force]

I would like a complete story of why slugged the cop, and the footages that were missing before I can pass any personal judgements.

No excuse for it...I dont care if they were making racial comments or your momma looks fat jokes....no words excuse him attacking anyone let alone a cop.

But from what I saw on the video, there's only one swing he took the rest were just him getting beaten up, over and over, while he was on the ground too.

Ok one swing is too many...and key thing here...HE DID NOT FOLLOW DIRECTIONS...someone tells you to stay down or put your hands behind your back..you do it..otherwise your hostile...especially after swinging!!!!

He did not use any weapons against the police, and their back up were there minute after, so the beating was not really required to put the man down, don't tell me 4 guys can't put a man to the floor without using that kind of brutal force.

Not true....my dad has a story when he was working out at the test site, this guy was like 5'8 and on the same drugs as this guy.....and it took 6 guys around my dads size to subdue him and he was crazy. My dad also said he was probably possessed though...Now thats 5'8 imagine this guy...300+ pounds..jeez thats just nuts.

 

[Force]

or they will beat you to death? Thats not the moral of the story. I am not defending the "thug".



Bigger smaller thats not the issue. Niether is his weight. The cops did not know he was on PCP at the time. At this point its a lose, lose situation for everyone. Again I will note that the coroner has ruled his death a homicide.

Hamilton County Coroner Carl Parrott said Nathaniel Jones, 41, suffered from an enlarged heart, obesity and had intoxicating levels of cocaine, PCP and methanol in his blood.

Parrott said the death will be ruled a homicide, but added that such a ruling "should not be interpreted as implying inappropriate behavior or the use of excessive force by police." Homicide rulings are issued when someone dies at the hands of another person.


Jones' death certificate will list a cause of death as an irregular heart beat because of a stress reaction from the violent struggle, Parrott said.

snip.......http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,104721,00.html

 

[Yobi]

No excuse for it...I dont care if they were making racial comments or your momma looks fat jokes....no words excuse him attacking anyone let alone a cop.

Look, I don't care if they are a cop or whatsnot, they just need to stop doing all the cover ups and do a fair investigation and trials. I can't pass judgements on them, I am not there to see what happened, but I do know there are polices who abuses and thinks they can do what they want, and expect their pals to back up the stories.

There were an Irish bar I used to go to, and occasionally out duties will go there to have couple drinks and play some pools. One of the friend there, being Spanish and all, does have an attitude problem, and while those officers usually behave themselves, sometimes they do taunt people and get in trouble.

So one night, they ran into some oral arugment and it got pretty heated. So they decided to go outside and have it out with him. Those dude were big guys, but little do they know, while my friend looks small compare to them, he used to be a boxer. So he was pratically beating the hell out of the officer he was have the arguement against.

Of course we all know what will happen then right, the rest just jump in on him. They showed no mercy there as far as I can tell, just keep beating him, and to make it worse, they were strangling him to near death. If other people in the bar didn't go in and stop the fight, my friend would've die that night. But we all know who's the one that got arrested.

There are other times I seen officers just went straight and smack someone in the face, just because that person were talking trash to them. But hey, it his fault to orally abusing a cop right?

I know majority of officers are nice and all, but under the heat of circumstances, they can really loose their head.

Fine, whatever, I just don't want them to automatically cover each other's up, like how the Chief is doing, just because they are officers doing their duties. Just give a fair investigation.

 

[Firscherscherling]

Uh. When I look at the tapes I see a giant guy freaking out and attacking the cops. I see them having a really hard time subduing him. I see them hitting him with nightsticks, which is unpleasant, but falry understandable considering the situation. Seems to me that what you guys are saying is the cops should allow themselves to be attacked and that they should not try to arrest those who attack them. Why? And I ask this even though I am of the opinion that the majority of cops I've had to deal with were complete jerks.

And it really bothers me that there is legal discrimination against blacks in this country. However, it bothers me just as much that the black community plays the racial discrimination and civil rights card no matter what. This seems to be one of those. We had a TERRIBLE police chief in our city who was rightfully fired. He was black. The black community knows he sucked but they are still making it a black thing. Lawsuits still pending. Mayoral recall ballots still being circulated.

 

[foolsparade]

Since the cause of death of death is attributed to the police action, then we should question what lead up to this encounter. I am not really taking sides on this, perhaps the procedure in encountering a "mental" person should be under review.