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ChurchHopping.com

New_Wineskin

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TheAJKMan said:
New Wineskin, I think he was trying to say that too many folks just "hop" from one church to another without settling down or putting down any roots. At least that is my impression. :)

TheAJKMan

Ok . What's wrong with that , then ? :)
 
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RepairerOfTheBreach

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Christianity is all about love and commitment, when you cant root anywhere long enough to love, or be commited you will struggle being commited to the cause of Christ... Remember that a little yeast works through all the dough... Follow principles in life and the little things wont get out of hand, be committed in the little areas of your life, and it will play true in everything you do.
 
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New_Wineskin

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RepairerOfTheBreach said:
Christianity is all about love and commitment, when you cant root anywhere long enough to love, or be commited you will struggle being commited to the cause of Christ... Remember that a little yeast works through all the dough... Follow principles in life and the little things wont get out of hand, be committed in the little areas of your life, and it will play true in everything you do.

That is an interesting idea . But , I find it hard to fathom how one can be serious about the need for committment and love to a group when that shows a lack of love and committment to those in other groups . Also , the groups show a contrary position of committment and love to each other by seperating themselves into different groups . The very idea that one cannot be with other Christians but stick to a particular group shows to me that a lack of committment is being suggested . In that sense , the yeast is in the groups and a committment to them would be to put one's self in a position to become infected by that yeast . I would rather be committed to Jesus and have fellowship with others - any and all others - not to one specific organization .

I continually hear about the lack of unity of Christians . But , when some attempt to fellowship with many of them , people refer to them in negative terms .
 
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Everglaze

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Church hopping is necessary in order for one to find the right church. How else would a person know what church is suited for them? If a person hops two churches and both lack in the fellowship that that person needs, what good is it for a person to go and never grow spiritually? If needs aren't met, the church is of no use to the person.
 
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GK

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Visiting more than one church while looking for a place to settle and "church hopping" are not the same thing. The latter is a euphemism for the behavior of those who don't really want to be part of a church, but just want their needs met. It's the couple who stay at a church as long as they are "getting" something out of it and leave as soon as the preacher says something that offends them. It's a real problem in the US. I'm not saying the site is a bad idea, but the name does come with a rather negative connotation.
 
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Z

zhilan

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I don't think the point of the website is to endorse church-hopping. If you go to the site and look, it's to help people be able to find a good community for them -without- church hopping. The name is supposed to be cute I think, not a serious endorsement of chuchhopping. It just allows people to tell you about about their church so if you are either, looking for a new church, new to town, or visiting a town and want to visit a church you can find one that suits you.
 
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Rick Otto

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:cool:
But NewWineskin is pointing at the problem of sectarianism obviated by the idiom "go to church".
Without divisive nicolaitane hierarchy, issues would still be wrestled with and truth would be the sole authority.
Heresies would be no more problem than they already are, which is about as bad as I ever could imagine.
We're not anti-group, but we recognize groups exist for goals, and mission creep too often incorporates self-preservation at the expense of spiritual fruit.
Ggood help is hard to find. Some hopping is probably healthy if you're determined to swim in instituutional (often incorporated!) waters.
 
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TheAJKMan

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Rick has a good point NewWineskin. The church seems to have lost it's way with regardsto what church actually is/should be. Instead we have the same set services at the same time with maybe some slight variation to allow for seasonal changes. So some folk try to find a "hoe" and end up "hopping."

TheAJKMan
 
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New_Wineskin

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TheAJKMan said:
Rick has a good point NewWineskin. The church seems to have lost it's way with regardsto what church actually is/should be. Instead we have the same set services at the same time with maybe some slight variation to allow for seasonal changes. So some folk try to find a "hoe" and end up "hopping."

TheAJKMan

Yes , Rick made a good point .

Even so , I see no reason to declare one group or another as a "home" . We are all brothers and sisters . Why should I decide to spend time with some while spending no time with everyone else ?
 
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charlesray

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Christianity is all about love and commitment, when you cant root anywhere long enough to love, or be commited you will struggle being commited to the cause of Christ... Remember that a little yeast works through all the dough... Follow principles in life and the little things wont get out of hand, be committed in the little areas of your life, and it will play true in everything you do.

Why do people think they have to be in the same room with their brothers and sisters in Christ to love them?

Jesus didn't go to the same place every week to worship, He went where He was needed. He said that the Son of man had no home.

You can be very commited to the Lord and not be commited to a building. We are the Church, not the building.

Your brother in Christ,
Chuck
 
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Rick Otto

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Sorry for the wait...
Nicolaitane:
"From nikao, "to conquer," & laos, "the people," or "laity". There is no ancient authority for a sect of the Nicolaitanes.* If the word is symbolic it refers to the earliest form of a notion of a priestly order, or "clergy," which later divided an equal brotherhood (Matt 23:8) into "priests" & "laity." What in Ephesus was "deeds" (Rev 2:6) had become in Pergamos a "doctrine." (Rev 2:15) "
from the Scofield Study Bible

And Count gave is this from Watcman Nee over in the "End Of The Church Age" thread:
But this you have, that you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate" (v. 6). Nicolaitans cannot be found in church history. Since Revelation is a book of prophecy, we must look into the meaning of the word. Nicolait in Greek is composed of two words. Nikao means "conquer" or "above others." Laos means "common people," "secular people," or "laity." So nicolait means "conquering the common people," "climbing above the laity." Nicolaitans, then, refers to a group of people who esteem themselves higher than the common believers. The Lord is above; the common believers are below. The Nicolaitans are below the Lord yet above the common believers. The Lord hates the behavior of the Nicolaitans. The conduct of climbing over and above the common believers as a mediatorial class is what the Lord detests; it is something to be hated. But at that time there was only the behavior; it had not yet become a teaching.
In the New Testament there is a fundamental principle: All of the children of God are priests of God. In Exodus 19:5-6 God called unto the people of Israel, saying, "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: and ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation." God ordained in the beginning that the whole nation be priests, but the incident of worshipping the golden calf occurred not long after. Moses broke the tables of law and said, "Who is on the Lord's side? let him come unto me...And slay every man his brother" (32:26-27). At that time the Levites came to stand on the Lord's side, and as a result, three thousand Israelites were slain on that day (v. 28). Henceforth, only the Levites could be priests; the kingdom of priests became a tribe of priests. The rest of the people of Israel could not be priests, and they had to depend on the Levites to be the priests on their behalf. The priestly class in the Old Testament was a mediatorial class. However, in the New Testament, Peter said, "But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people acquired for a possession" (1 Pet. 2:9). We, the whole church, are priests; this goes back to the condition in the beginning. Revelation 1:5-6 says that as many as are washed in the blood are priests. The priests are in charge of God's business; every believer is in charge of God's business. There should not be a mediatorial class in the church. The church has only one High Priest, the Lord Jesus.

Before a change took place in the church, all the believers took care of the Lord's business. But after the apostles, this condition began to change; men began to lose interest in the matter of serving the Lord. When the Roman Catholic Church began (in the time of Pergamos), there were few who were saved but many who were baptized; thus, unbelievers filled the church. Then there appeared a group of "clergy." Since there were members who were not spiritual, what could they do? Asking them to put down the account books and pick up the Bible to preach would not be fitting. So a group of people was sought out to take special care of spiritual affairs while the rest did secular work. Thus, the "clergy" was produced contrary to God's desire. God desires that all who do secular work should also take care of spiritual affairs.
In the Roman Catholic Church, the dispensing of the bread, the laying on of hands, baptizing, etc., are all performed by the Catholic priests; even weddings and funerals must be undertaken by the "clergy." In the Protestant church there are pastors. For illness, call the doctor; for lawsuits, call the lawyer; for spiritual affairs, call the pastor. What about us? We can devote ourselves to secular work without distraction. But please remember, in Taoism the Taoist priests chant the liturgy for people; in Judaism the priests manage the things of God for men. However, in the church, there should not be any mediatorial class, because we ourselves are all priests.
It is for this reason that we have been crying out concerning the "universal priesthood" for twenty years. Abel could offer a sacrifice; so could Noah. In the beginning the people of Israel could all offer sacrifices; but later, because of the incident of the golden calf, they could not offer sacrifices themselves. God says that every believer can come directly to God. But now there are the mediatorial people in the church. Today there are Nicolaitans in the church; therefore, Christianity has become Judaism.
The Lord is pleased with those who reject the mediatorial class. If you have been washed by the blood, you have a direct share in spiritual affairs. The church can only be founded on this ground; otherwise, it is Judaism. Therefore, we are not just fighting the matter of sects, but we are fighting for the privilege of the blood. Today there are three main categories of churches in the world: one is the world church, that is, the Roman Catholic Church; one is the state church, such as the Anglican Church and the Lutheran Church; and one is the independent church, such as the Methodist Church, the Presbyterian Church, etc. In the Roman Catholic Church there is the (Catholic) priestly system, in the Anglican Church there is the clerical system, and in the independent churches there is the pastoral system. All we see is a mediatorial class which undertakes spiritual affairs. But the church God wants to establish is one in which He can place the whole gospel without the mediatorial class. If there is anything present that does not conform to the whole gospel, then that is not the church.
"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches" (Rev. 2:7a). The Lord speaks in this same way to all the seven churches, showing that not only the church at Ephesus should hear, but all the churches must hear.
"To him who overcomes, to him I will give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of God" (v. 7b). God's original intention for man was that he eat of the fruit of the tree of life. Now God says that we can come directly to Him and do according to His original intention. The question is not what the tree of life is; rather, the question is whether we are willing to follow God's initial intention to eat of the fruit of the tree of life in the garden of God. Only the overcomers can eat. Whoever returns to the original intention and demand of God is an overcomer.

 
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