churches that believe universalism

[kayanne]

Are there specific Christian denominations that believe in universalism? I googled to try to find this info, but I only found unitarian (which, from my reading, don't adhere to basics of Christianity like the deity of Christ).

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

The Stream we came out of is fairly Universal, although to be fair as members we allhave varying beliefs and lifestyles. No doctrinal concensus beyond "love God,love each other,love others". Pioneer.

http://www.pioneer.org.uk/

 

[Im_A]

Are there specific Christian denominations that believe in universalism? I googled to try to find this info, but I only found unitarian (which, from my reading, don't adhere to basics of Christianity like the deity of Christ).

i would like to believe there are churches that believe in universalism. i have printed out 2 sermons currently of a Reverend defending universalism. and it was only back in the 1800's.

 

[ottaia]

I encounted universalism in seminary. So at least one of the major theologians of the ELCA was teaching universalism.

 

[stumpjumper]

I encounted universalism in seminary. So at least one of the major theologians of the ELCA was teaching universalism.

I knew I liked you for a reason I didn't know you were a Lutheran Pastor. I attend a church that is a member of ELCA and my Pastor seems to lean towards universalism even though she has never openly stated it but in conversations with her that seems to be her belief.

Other than UU though I can't think of a denomination that has universalism as part of their doctrine.

 

[kayanne]

Other than UU though I can't think of a denomination that has universalism as part of their doctrine.

Oh, that's disappointing to hear. I've been in a rather calvinistic church for the past 12 years or so (although I was never in full agreement with some of the calvinistic theology).

So, if I want to find a church that doesn't strictly teach salvation only for those who are "born again" or "accept Christ as Savior" or however different churches word it....where do I look? There must be churches that aren't fundamentalist but still think Jesus is the Savior. Are you saying that all of the denominations you know of teach Jesus as Savior of only some?

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Nope. But I said that already.

 

[Fish and Bread]

Are there specific Christian denominations that believe in universalism? I googled to try to find this info, but I only found unitarian (which, from my reading, don't adhere to basics of Christianity like the deity of Christ).

The Polish National Catholic Church has as a formal tennant of it's beliefs that all people will eventually be saved, though they think that some will go through a lengthy purification process first. To my knowledge they affirm all the basics of Christianity and have many practices that are similar to Roman Catholics (Though the PNCC's belief system is obviously a tad bit more liberal! ).

John

 

[stumpjumper]

Oh, that's disappointing to hear. I've been in a rather calvinistic church for the past 12 years or so (although I was never in full agreement with some of the calvinistic theology).

So, if I want to find a church that doesn't strictly teach salvation only for those who are "born again" or "accept Christ as Savior" or however different churches word it....where do I look? There must be churches that aren't fundamentalist but still think Jesus is the Savior. Are you saying that all of the denominations you know of teach Jesus as Savior of only some?

Well there is at the least a huge difference between Arminians and Calvinists. Some 90% of the world's Christians are Arminian in that they believe God will offer salvation to everyone even though it might not be part of their doctrine that all will accept salvation and be saved.

This is from ELCA's website http://www.elca.org/questions/Results.asp?recid=21:

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Carl Braaten says, "The Christian hope for salvation, whether for the believing few or the unbelieving many, is grounded in the person and meaning of Christ alone, not in the potential of the world’s religions to save, nor in the moral seriousness of humanists and people of good will, not even in the good works of pious Christians and church people. ... There is a universalist thrust in the New Testament, particularly in Paul’s theology. How else can we read passages such as 'for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ' (1 Cor 15:22)?" (See also Colossians 1:15-20, Ephesians 1:9-10, 1 Corinthians 15:28.)[/font]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]The universal scope of salvation in Christ[/font]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]ELCA Lutherans will say with Braaten, "Salvation in the New Testament is what God has done to death in the resurrection of Jesus. Salvation is what God has in store for you and me and the whole world in spite of death, solely on account of the living risen Christ. ... The universal scope of salvation in Christ includes the destiny of our bodies together with the whole earth and the whole of creation. This cosmic hope is based on the promise of eternal life sealed by the resurrection of Jesus from the dead. Through raising Jesus from the dead, God put death to death, overcoming the deadliest enemy of life at loose in the world. This hope for the final salvation of humanity and the eternal universal restitution of all things in heaven and on earth ... is drawn from the unlimited promise of the Gospel and the magnitude of God’s grace made known to the world through Christ."

[/font]

Sounds close to universalist to me even though it might not be a doctrinal statement of universal salvation. It is certainly a much more universal view than the Calvinists

 

[ottaia]

Gotta love the ELCA!

It is just transferring the vision into reality.

 

[Waiting for the Verdict]

Oh, that's disappointing to hear. I've been in a rather calvinistic church for the past 12 years or so (although I was never in full agreement with some of the calvinistic theology).

So, if I want to find a church that doesn't strictly teach salvation only for those who are "born again" or "accept Christ as Savior" or however different churches word it....where do I look? There must be churches that aren't fundamentalist but still think Jesus is the Savior. Are you saying that all of the denominations you know of teach Jesus as Savior of only some?

Have you noticed how Calvinism pushes people into universalism, even when one doesn't believe in it?

There is no denomination that universally preaches universalism, except Unitarianism and the Polish Catholic Church (unless there are some denominations I don't know about). But a lot of mainline (liberal) Christians believe in universalism and sometimes even their individual churchs do. Mainline denominations include certain branchs of Lutheranism, the Congregationalists, Quakers, some. . . though not all. . . Mennonites, the Presbyterian church USA, and the United Methodist church. Since you come from a more conservative background, I would start with the United Methodist Church, or possibly the Presbyterian USA, and then work your way left from there if you don't like those denominations. Just remember, not every church in those denominations will be liberal. Some UMC churches, for instance, are still conservative, though most are not.

The best way to learn about universalism though, is online. Also, remember that many liberal churches are suffering from a youth drain, so depending on how old you are and how old the congregation is, you may find yourself 30 or 40 years younger than the next youngest parishoner (That is the case in my home town). But again, that doesn't apply to every liberal church.

 

[Waiting for the Verdict]

Are there specific Christian denominations that believe in universalism? I googled to try to find this info, but I only found unitarian (which, from my reading, don't adhere to basics of Christianity like the deity of Christ).

If you are looking for an evangelical-type who believed in universalism, try getting George Macdonald's book Robert Falconer. It's a Victorian novel, but if you can handle the Victorian language it gives a pretty persuasive argument for a conservative form of evangelical universalism.

Don't know if you're interested. Just thought you'd like to know.

 

[PastorJason]

Are there specific Christian denominations that believe in universalism? I googled to try to find this info, but I only found unitarian (which, from my reading, don't adhere to basics of Christianity like the deity of Christ).

But yes, at the heart of the matter, sort of. I'm a pastor of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), and the tricky thing about our denomination is that we hold no creedal statements or dogmatics to be tests of faith or fellowship, outside of "I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God, and that he is the Lord and Savior of the world." Where you go with that statement after that is up to you.

That being said, from our denominational website (www.disciples.org/discover/saved.htm) one finds the view that both personal and universal salvation are present in scripture and tradition, but that ultimately only God knows:

"In the Bible and classical Christian theology, salvation is sometimes pictured in a restrictive sense, belonging only to those who respond in faith (e.g. Matthew 25:31-46; John 3:16). Such pictures portray the importance of human responsibility. Salvation is also pictured in universally inclusive ways in which God is the Redeemer of the whole creation, including all human beings (e.g. Philippians 2:5-11; Colossians 1:15-20; Revelation 5:13). Such pictures portray the sovereignty of God, whose ability to say "yes" is finally stronger than human ability to say "no." Both pictures are in the Bible and in Christian tradition. Both pictures, limited salvation and universal salvation, have something important to say. Disciples have traditionally been reluctant to say how it "really" is. The matter is in God's hands, and mercifully so. We bear witness to the importance of human decision and responsibility; we bear witness to the unconditional grace of God. We trust in the mercy and faithfulness of God revealed in Jesus Christ."

So, in answer to your OP - yes. And no. Sort of. Also, with our denominational model of congregationalism, the theology you'll find depends heavily on which church you attend, although you personally are given the freedom of theological movement, without threat of being "disfellowshipped" or "excommunicated," not that we practice those anyway.

 

[Crazy Liz]

There actually are quite a few closet universalists in Evangelical churches. I was quite surprised when I took the Perspectives missions course at my church to find a reading on universalism. It made no argument against universalism at all. It merely argued that Christians who are universalists should keep quiet about it because it would tend to discourage many people from evangelism. I think this, and the belief of some Evangelicals that universalism is heretical, keeps most universalists pretty quiet about it in these circles, but there are plenty.

Have you noticed how Calvinism pushes people into universalism, even when one doesn't believe in it?

Definitely. It is the only way to reconcile the Calvinist definition of sovereignty with God's love for all.

 

[Waiting for the Verdict]

Well there is at the least a huge difference between Arminians and Calvinists. Some 90% of the world's Christians are Arminian in that they believe God will offer salvation to everyone even though it might not be part of their doctrine that all will accept salvation and be saved.

This is from ELCA's website http://www.elca.org/questions/Results.asp?recid=21:

[/font]

Sounds close to universalist to me even though it might not be a doctrinal statement of universal salvation. It is certainly a much more universal view than the Calvinists

I agree with everything you say, but in America Calvinism often seems to push people into universalism unintentionally. It did so to me, even though I didn't believe it. So, I guess, despite its seeming barbarity, it serves a very constructive purpose!

 

[Waiting for the Verdict]

There actually are quite a few closet universalists in Evangelical churches. I was quite surprised when I took the Perspectives missions course at my church to find a reading on universalism. It made no argument against universalism at all. It merely argued that Christians who are universalists should keep quiet about it because it would tend to discourage many people from evangelism. I think this, and the belief of some Evangelicals that universalism is heretical, keeps most universalists pretty quiet about it in these circles, but there are plenty.



Definitely. It is the only way to reconcile the Calvinist definition of sovereignty with God's love for all.

Agreed! I'm one of those evangelicals, though I don't particularly closet my beliefs. . . many others do, however. But for evangelical universalists there is often no where to go. We don't fit into liberalism or evangelicalism.

So sad.

 

[Im_A]

Agreed! I'm one of those evangelicals, though I don't particularly closet my beliefs. . . many others do, however. But for evangelical universalists there is often no where to go. We don't fit into liberalism or evangelicalism.

So sad.

yes it is. i would love to see the reaction of me walking in, seeing my Christian tattoos, sit at some conservative Bible study and talk about my convictions in Universalism. anymore, there is nothing to hide. if people don't like it, they can deal with it on their own for all i care anymore. if they want to ask about what i think about evangelism even though i believe in universalism, then they need to ask instead of assuming and feel discouraged because of their lack of ability to speak up and talk. we feel like a rock between a hard place. people bring up about not making a brother stumble, but if we keep quiet, we are liars and fakers, or people that hide thing. so damned if you and damned if you don't. i take the latter road of not being a liar, or someone that fakes, or someone that hides anything. why? because if people descide to feel discouraged, then that shows their faith was on the change there, and you played a pivatol role/seed to actually get them to be honest with themselves, and think, i don't agree with everything like i thought, and stop playing the game. and if not, then hopefully just good discussion comes in, friendly debate comes, and at the end of the night, wipe the dust from our feet. no more playing the game, or hiding ourselves in some church closet because we're afraid to freak people out, or get called a heretic anymore, that's for sure.

 

[kayanne]

.... It merely argued that Christians who are universalists should keep quiet about it because it would tend to discourage many people from evangelism.

Hmmm, I certainly hadn't thought of it that way. I think that the notions of "predestination" and "the elect" would be much more likely to discourage evangelism.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Hmmm, I certainly hadn't thought of it that way. I think that the notions of "predestination" and "the elect" would be much more likely to discourage evangelism.

I would think so, too, since it seems like preaching to the reprobate only brings them greater punishment. But...

The vast majority of Christians in the world believe in some form of free will that affects salvation and condemnation.

 

[kayanne]

But yes, at the heart of the matter, sort of. I'm a pastor of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), and the tricky thing about our denomination is that we hold no creedal statements or dogmatics to be tests of faith or fellowship, outside of "I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God, and that he is the Lord and Savior of the world." Where you go with that statement after that is up to you.

That being said, from our denominational website (www.disciples.org/discover/saved.htm) one finds the view that both personal and universal salvation are present in scripture and tradition, but that ultimately only God knows:

"In the Bible and classical Christian theology, salvation is sometimes pictured in a restrictive sense, belonging only to those who respond in faith (e.g. Matthew 25:31-46; John 3:16). Such pictures portray the importance of human responsibility. Salvation is also pictured in universally inclusive ways in which God is the Redeemer of the whole creation, including all human beings (e.g. Philippians 2:5-11; Colossians 1:15-20; Revelation 5:13). Such pictures portray the sovereignty of God, whose ability to say "yes" is finally stronger than human ability to say "no." Both pictures are in the Bible and in Christian tradition. Both pictures, limited salvation and universal salvation, have something important to say. Disciples have traditionally been reluctant to say how it "really" is. The matter is in God's hands, and mercifully so. We bear witness to the importance of human decision and responsibility; we bear witness to the unconditional grace of God. We trust in the mercy and faithfulness of God revealed in Jesus Christ."

So, in answer to your OP - yes. And no. Sort of. Also, with our denominational model of congregationalism, the theology you'll find depends heavily on which church you attend, although you personally are given the freedom of theological movement, without threat of being "disfellowshipped" or "excommunicated," not that we practice those anyway.

Wow, thanks Pastor Jason! I have been thinking for quite some time that I wish I could find a church that reveres the Bible, yet admits that some things are difficult to determine. I have been in a church that has a stance on everything, which at one time was very appealing to me. But eventually I just had to admit that no single church could be right about *everything.* Yet our church seems so negative toward other churches with different doctrines ("heresies"), and a common phrase at my church is "right doctrine leads to right thinking, and right thinking leads to right living." Another phrase is "churches that focus on unity and love never seem to think that right doctrine is important."

Believing the "right things" (translated: our church's interpretations) was the most important thing. But I realized that other churches have a reasonable Scriptural basis for their beliefs, even if those beliefs are different. The one absolutely clear Biblical teaching was LOVE. Jesus never said we have to figure out the whole Bible and believe all of the right interpretations. He just said to LOVE.

Jason, on the website you linked, it talked about early disciples having 6 steps for salvation (repentance, baptism, etc). I thought that Christian Churches (Disciples of Christ) still strongly emphasized those human actions in order to be saved (that's true of DoC people I know personally). But the paragraph you quoted says otherwise. I really like what that paragraph has to say.