Church leadership problem?

[Waterhouse]

I'm wondering if any of you can lend some advice.

My church has been around for over 20 years now to a congregation of around 300 members. The thing is, that it's been like that for about the past 7-8 years. Most of the congregation is made up of those and their families from near the beginning of the church's inception. There is no new growth. In the past year, I can count the number of new salvations on one hand. We have lost a 'generation' of members ie: there are the elders, older parents, a GAP, young adults and youth. Mentoring is lacking and unless something changes real soon, the talented youth and young adults of the church will leave.

My church has grown complacent. They do what they have always done, and are very comfortable with what they have. Don't get me wrong, everyone is happy. The fellowship amongst members is fantastic and close knit. However, the only people in our community who would miss us if the church closed down, would be the members themselves.

As part of the youth and young adults group, we stand at somewhat of a crossroad. There is an entrenched eldership that is holding on to the 'control' of the church. They have been there from the start, and have blocked anything 'new' or 'contemporary' that has been brought before them. They are well loved by all, and have good intentions, but I fear that my church will end with a lot of old men and women with their children.

So do we remain faithful to the eldership of the church? I understand submission to authority. The elders of the church are not bad men. Perhaps their only fault is that they are complacent. Too comfortable with the way things are and resistant to change, or handing over 'power' as they see it to the next generation. Those who would have followed them have left, and the young adults are... too young as they see it.

Or is this a time to start something afresh on our own. There is a lot of potential in the youth and younger generation. A desire to be effective in God's Kingdom. A desire to do something, rather than just congregate every week and be happy with that.

 

[AmericanTenor]

Waterhouse,

Your not alone. I would have to say, there are 80 to 90% of churches going thru the same delima.

But do you give "control" to the younger generation to make drastic changes and drive away the core of the congregation?

or do you let them keep control and let them dictate and control, and drive away the younger ones.

In my 24 years of evangelistic experience I've found that churches are more concerned with symbolism than with the substance of ministry. Many times an invitation is given and folks who you might think are "OK", are not "OK".

We need to strive to reach out not only to the people outside the walls, but those inside as well. Music styles and ways of worship should be far down on the list of priorities. However, it's been my experience that we're focused on the little things and should be focusing on the people who need help.

Blessings

AT

 

[faith177]

Pray for them God put them in leadership for a reason. There is a really good tape on this subject I will find it a post it later.

 

[pmarquette]

We all know ephesians 4.11 , the 5 fold ministry . But do you know what ephesians 4.12 says ? He has called some [ ministers ] to teach the rest of us to go and do the work of the church ..... a whole flock effort ...

Some will provide seed , that others will sow , still others will water , that God might bring the increase ...

We started a prayer group within our church 9 years ago . We meet for 45 minutes before each service and pray for all phases of the church , ministers , and ministry .

There is a tape and video by John Maxwell Ministries , called " Pastor's Most Valuable Player " .. prayer partner ... which is a good place to start : pick up the video and book , watch yourself , share with pastor , pray that he / she receives and examines it . Ask permission to come early and pray each week , see what happens ....
www.injoy.com

 

[Waterhouse]

Waterhouse,

Your not alone. I would have to say, there are 80 to 90% of churches going thru the same delima.

But do you give "control" to the younger generation to make drastic changes and drive away the core of the congregation?

or do you let them keep control and let them dictate and control, and drive away the younger ones.

In my 24 years of evangelistic experience I've found that churches are more concerned with symbolism than with the substance of ministry. Many times an invitation is given and folks who you might think are "OK", are not "OK".

We need to strive to reach out not only to the people outside the walls, but those inside as well. Music styles and ways of worship should be far down on the list of priorities. However, it's been my experience that we're focused on the little things and should be focusing on the people who need help.

Blessings

AT

Thanks AT. Though from your post, I'm not sure who would you cater for? The seniors, or the youth? Those inside, or those outside? The current situation in my church is catering for the senior congregation, with a very 'inside the walls' focus, with the youth/young adults doing most of the work. We are looking at having a second service to cater for a more 'contemporary' style of worship and teaching. Would you think that a better option?

 

[Waterhouse]

Pray for them God put them in leadership for a reason. There is a really good tape on this subject I will find it a post it later.

Yes Faith. As I said, the eldership are well loved in my church. However their view is "We've always done things this way, so that's the way we'll do it" It was such a huge struggle (years) to change from manual overhead transparencies to getting an overhead projector with a computer. The feeling amongst the younger congregation is that we need to move with the times. To be more relevant to the community of today.

 

[Waterhouse]

We all know ephesians 4.11 , the 5 fold ministry . But do you know what ephesians 4.12 says ? He has called some [ ministers ] to teach the rest of us to go and do the work of the church ..... a whole flock effort ...

Some will provide seed , that others will sow , still others will water , that God might bring the increase ...

We started a prayer group within our church 9 years ago . We meet for 45 minutes before each service and pray for all phases of the church , ministers , and ministry .

There is a tape and video by John Maxwell Ministries , called " Pastor's Most Valuable Player " .. prayer partner ... which is a good place to start : pick up the video and book , watch yourself , share with pastor , pray that he / she receives and examines it . Ask permission to come early and pray each week , see what happens ....
www.injoy.com

There is a weekly prayer meeting during the week, and in addition a prayer meeting before the Sunday service. Perhaps what is lacking is a 'passion' for what the Church is doing. Though our most recent Senior Pastor instilled a 'vision' few, even the eldership have caught onto it, reverting to how things have always been.

 

[Watcher-for-your-soul]

The posts above are all very good and worth considering, especially the ones about prayer. Getting together with people who are of like mind and zeal for going forward and praying daily is the first key. Not just the regular weekly prayer meetings.

Aside from that, as you pray there needs to be a strategy which will ultimately have to come from a change of heart with the leadership (the main reason for the ongoing prayer meetings.) However, you need to be sure that what you are praying for is feasible in the area where your church is. What do you want? What do you believe the will of God is for your church? Greater evangelistic effort and growth? More ministry to the poor? Outreach to a specific area or population segment?

For example, a church in suburban Chicago could reasonably pray for effective outreach to the poor or to gang infested areas and the means to implement that. That would be feasible because the demographic is large enough and defineable enough to target. The same goal in Colorado Springs would not be feasible because the demographic is not there like it is in Chicago. A few years ago we regularly had around 120 teenagers attending our church weekly. Several years ago, upon opening a new Youth Center, the attendance immediately went to around 250 and on to over 300 young people. But, in our area, even though there are 200 churches in a city of 82,000 with oinly 35% of the people in the area attending church, no youth center like this one existed. Plus we knew we had the demographic age range to attend and grow it.

Study (the area), pray for what is needed, strategize to meet the need, implement the strategy.

Before going any further, are you in an area with a large enough population of teenagers and young adults to attempt a significant change in your church? If you manage to influence the church leadership to make some changes in that direction, can you demonstrate that it will be beneficial to the church and to the community? The reason I'm asking is, that when any change is made, you will loose people who will not like it. If there is any chance of changing the heart of the leadership, it will be first by covering the situation with intense prayer, then presenting to them an intelligent, beneficial plan that will demonstrate a means of growth and effectiveness in your community. In other words, can you demonstrate to the leadership of your church that there is a significant population of young adults that would come to your church if you moved in a more "contemporary" direction?

Questions for you at this point:
*(Forget the attitude of the leadership for the moment) If you were free to move in any direction(s) with your church, what would it be?
*What would it produce?
*How do you know?
*Are you willing to pay the price in prayer to achieve it?

If you can clearly define and post those answers here where we can understand them, you probably have your answer, plan, strategy and what to pray for with the leadership.

 

[Mavrick]

Hi Waterhouse.

I have several questions to ask you, all of which I will send in a PM.

As for the immediate advice, I know the frustrations of dealing with a "rutted" leadership. It took some time to get past this, and I finally hit on something that worked for us. Now, keep in mind I am a F/T Youth Pastor, so I may some advantage with being able it implement this.

The first thing I did was get the teens in the YG (Youth Group) to do a biblical study and research on why we should move on, not staying in the ruts we were in. They attacked it like a school of hungry piranha going after a nice juicy bull.

Three weeks, meeting twice a week, and they…. Not me, not the leadership of the YG, they teens and some of the preteens, had a presentation ready. THey practiced it, looked for arguments that would be brought up, and made sure they had an airtight case. And then I arranged for a meeting with the elders, privately, to make this presentation.
Two hours later we were done. There had been several questions asked, a couple we did not think about, but they were able to handle with ease. In the end we were allowed to make some changes. It was a start, and the changes were well worth the effort.

There are three keys if you make this kind of presentation:

1. Be respectful of the elders in the presentation. We started off with a statement that we believe the Word of God to be relevant for today, and asked if they agreed. Of course they said yes. Then we said that using the Word, we would like to make a presentation about why some things needed to be changed.
2. When prepareing the presentation, pray. I know…. You already know this. What can I say? It’s a force of habit.
3. The "kids" must make the presentation. This shows the elders that they have a desire to know the word of God, to grow in faith, and have a desire to see the church body grow.

I’ll send you a PM shortly, but for now, this is the best thing I can say.

Rutters…… drive me NUTS!!!!



Mav.

 

[flyfishing]

Pray them out!! Pray for a move of the Holy Ghost so strong that man either bends thier will to GOD or they leave. Be bold in your prayers, if GOD does not change them he will in some ay change the situation for you... Praise be to his name!! I know it works, have seen GOD remove bad deacons...

 

[Heartman]

Time to hit the knees Waterhouse. It is God's will to win every soul in your city for the Lord. It is God's will for everone in your church to have a burning all consuming love for Him. It is God's will for your church to be a beacon for all those He died for.

So you do not have to ask if it's God's will for action to begin. I suggest asking God what is standing in the way. Perhaps their is a lot of sin in the church, divorce and remarriage, materialism, pride of place, choking traditions, compromised theology, sinful lifestyles, or simply confession without repentance, "claiming being born again" without conversion to new life. God will not work through dirty hands and disobedient servants. Pray for the Holy Spirit to convict those in the church of sin the camp. We have lost the ability to win the world for christ when lack of integrity robs of the Power of God's Word.

 

[Mustaphile]

I am not involved in ministry myself, but I have been contemplating something that is relevant to contemporary society.

The coming pressure on the social security as the Baby Boomers start retiring is leading many governments around the world to begin to crack down on social security spending. This is leaving a situation where many will be without support from the government. We can cry out against the system or we can take practical action. In this context it seems all the more important for churches to reach out to those in need and create strong community bonds, so that we are able to support each other. The context for this would be in the immediate local vicinity. Not somewhere that someone needs to drive to, as I think cars are not something the needy have great access too. It needs to happening in our direct neighbourhood. By forming bonds in a local proximity and small geographic area we can strengthen community support. This would not necessarily have to take the form of overtly seeking to preach to those in need, but to actually show that the church is actively seeking to promote practical methods of people who live in close proximity to each other to support and assist each other in need. The by-product of this would be a community that feels a warmth towards the church and a more receptive attitude to receiving the teachings of the church in more informal settings.

Perhaps this is as it should have been all along. The churches looking for need in the community and taking practical measures to address those needs. Bringing local communities together, teaching people simple life skills etc. The ways that one could take action are myriad.

The believers are able to become involved in projects that offer real assistance to the local community. This charitable spirit brings familiarity between the members of the church and the local community, familiarity brings trust, trust brings communication, communication brings converts. I have seen expressed on this forum a statement in which we should be approaching the problem not by telling the community what they need, but asking them what they need. To the best of our abilities we should try to provide those needs in a local context.

I have also contemplated some of the resistance that might be found amongst believers to this. This type of local community action is going to bring people into contact that have widely differing views and lifestyles. Views and lifestlyes that may not fit well into the context of a church that has built walls around itself to protect itself from the 'outside world'.

Are we going to be comfortable with the poor, homeless raggity man sitting in the church pews on Sunday?

What attitude are we going to take to the alchoholic who swears profusely and can sometimes turn violent?

It is going to take a change in mindset for 'fortress mentality'christianity to step outside the walls and fight the battle against poverty and need in the community.

Firstly I think the spirit of judgment needs to be cast out of the church and replaced with God's love, mercy and forgiveness. It's too easy for us to sit in the church and be happy and complacent that we are surrounded by like-minded people. The real challenge will be when the church comes face to face with the unsaved world.

Some of the types of programmes that I have contemplated are things that are not specifically related to religious issues. These give the church and the community a neutral space to come together. By forming projects that migth involve handicraft or art for instance. A class in basket-weaving, cross-stitching, painting, pottery, do it yourself classes of all kinds, cooking, growing your own food, how to budget effectively, poetry and writers circles. Anything that brings people together or offers help to those in need. These offer skills that that are practical to the community and can be shared by both the believer and unbeliever. Perhaps a letter box drop inviting people in a group of streets all in close proximity to a local recreation area to participate in a 'sausage sizzle' or whatever they call these things in your part of the world. These are just some ideas off the top of my head, but I am sure that with some creative leadership more neutral grounds for bringing people in the community together could be developed. Some of these projects might be self funding, others might need some fundraising or support from the church. The emphasis would be on building local communities and reaching those who are in need and bringing them into contact with the rest of the community so that we can all support each other. Start with one project and work up from there.

Modern life has left many people fractured and isolated in the community. People can walk out there door and jump in the car and go to work, passing hundreds of people in their community, but never interacting with them. Then at the end of the work day, they hop back in the car, drive past those same people and walk into the peace and security of their home. In times of crisis the most accesible help are our family, friends, neighbours and if we work at it , our local community as well. We need to build these social safety nets and put them in place. Who better to do the job than God's people.

 

[george0361]

You may want to encourage them to take some Free Christian Leadership Training at: freechristianleadertraining.org