Church History: An Introduction?

[Macarius]

That's good feedback - iconoclasm doesn't have its own line. Its there implicitly because the two major iconoclastic emperors and the iconoclast council are on there, as is the Orthodox response (Nicaea II, Irene, the Synodikon, Theodore, John of Damascus). But yeah, the other major heresies get a more direct treatment. I'll add it to the list.

 

[gracefullamb]

Ok - so there's an interest. The next thing to do would be to settle on the topic list and order.

I don't want to overwhelm (though I'm fairly sure this will) as there's a lot of ground to cover. But keep in mind I'd post maybe one or two of these a week (depending on how busy life gets), so this is a long term project. If we go ahead with this, I'll make a post in St. Basil's with the topic list, and then link future posts back to it so one can use the original post as a sort of "table of contents." The following is, more or less, chronologically what I'd cover.

I know it takes things awhile to drop off the first page in St.Basil's but would it be possible for your initial topic list/ table of contents thread to be made into a sticky? Other than that looking forward to reading it.

 

[Dorothea]

Can the MODS make this a sticky?

 

[Gnarwhal]

Can the MODS make this a sticky?

Ask and ye shall receive. Lol... Seriously though, good call.

 

[Dorothea]

Ask and ye shall receive. Lol... Seriously though, good call.

Thanks.

 

[Macarius]

Oddly enough, sticky threads get less attention that non stickies - I think I just scroll past them.

When the full introduction thread goes up in St. Basil (I'm working on the first post presently), let's unsticky this and let it drop down in TAW, but make that thread sticky in St. Basil.

If people want, I can post an occasional reminder here in the main forum when I've put up new posts in St. Basil's (e.g. linking to a few of the newer posts). I know that forum attention spans tend to be short; its the nature of the format. And this is a rather long term project (e.g. it will take a few years to get through everything if I do one or two a week, and I doubt I'll have time for more).

 

[Gnarwhal]

Oddly enough, sticky threads get less attention that non stickies - I think I just scroll past them.

When the full introduction thread goes up in St. Basil (I'm working on the first post presently), let's unsticky this and let it drop down in TAW, but make that thread sticky in St. Basil.

If people want, I can post an occasional reminder here in the main forum when I've put up new posts in St. Basil's (e.g. linking to a few of the newer posts). I know that forum attention spans tend to be short; its the nature of the format. And this is a rather long term project (e.g. it will take a few years to get through everything if I do one or two a week, and I doubt I'll have time for more).

Ok, no problem.

 

[Tzaousios]

I've considered going into the field (e.g. earning a PhD), at which point I'd feel comfortable writing something more extensive / publishable. In the meantime, for the particular interest you just suggested (an Eastern Church perspective on the total narrative of Christian history), the "Church In History" series by St. Vladimir's Seminary Press is superb, though incomplete (it covers only up through the fall of Constantinople).

They're trying really hard to find someone who can write the final two volumes, but unfortunately the history gets SO complex (and so lopsidedly western focused) that all there are are regional specialists or topical specialists. There are few (if any) Eastern-focused scholars who could legitimately do a 'birds eye' view of Christian history in the last 500 years. Such a person would need to know something like a dozen languages (if not more), since they'd be working off of primary source documents and untranslated specialists' works. Finding a contemporary church historian who is Eastern Orthodox and writes in English who speaks Greek, Russian, Bulgarian, Romanian, Latin, French, German, Spanish, Serbian, Arabic, etc... well that's challenging.

Runciman, Steven. The Great Church in Captivity: A Study of the Patriarchate of Constantinople from the Eve of the Turkish Conquest to the Greek War of Independence. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1985. (reprint of 1968 ed.)

Runciman's book is still unsurpased in light of there not being a more recent addition to the St. Vlad's series. It can be supplemented by other secondary works which are not as good in quality, such as:

Brewer, David. Greece, the Hidden Centuries: Turkish Rule from the Fall of Constantinople to Greek Independence. London: I.B. Tauris, 2010.

Frazee, Charles A. The Orthodox Church and Independent Greece, 1821-1852. London: Cambridge University Press, 1969.

Henderson, G. P. The Revival of Greek Thought, 1620-1830. Albany: State University of New York Press, 1970.

Speake, Graham. Mount Athos: Renewal in Paradise. New Haven: Yale University Press, 2002.

Also, Paschalis Kitromilides is a recent scholar who works on the general period in English:

Kitromilides, Paschalis. An Orthodox Commonwealth: Symbolic Legacies and Cultural Encounters in Southeastern Europe. Aldershot, Hampshire, Great Britain: Ashgate/Variorum, 2007.

Kitromilides, Paschalis, ed. Eleftherios Venizelos: The Trials of Statesmanship. Edinburgh: Edinburgh University Press, 2006.

Kitromilides, Paschalis. Enlightenment, Nationalism, Orthodoxy: Studies in the Culture and Political Thought of South-Eastern Europe. Aldershot, Hampshire: Variorum, 1994.

Kitromilides, Paschalis. The Enlightenment As Social Criticism: Iosipos Moisiodax and Greek Culture in the Eighteenth Century. Princeton Modern Greek Studies. Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press, 1992.

Hopefully this helps some. I too am looking forward to Macarius' history lessons!

 

[Macarius]

Runciman, Steven. The Great Church in Captivity: A Study of the Patriarchate of Constantinople from the Eve of the Turkish Conquest to the Greek War of Independence. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1985. (reprint of 1968 ed.)

Runciman's book is still unsurpased in light of there not being a more recent addition to the St. Vlad's series.

I've got the Runciman volume sitting next to my computer presently and have read a good chunk of it; it is, unfortunately, writing about an "Eastern" experience from a rather Western perspective (e.g. that assumes that the ongoing development of theology in the West is a generally positive thing and that the East rather missed the boat and ended up in stagnation). It isn't nearly as dramatic as in, say, Gibbon, but I just long for something more favorable and / or less dated.

Brewer, David. Greece, the Hidden Centuries: Turkish Rule from the Fall of Constantinople to Greek Independence. London: I.B. Tauris, 2010.

Frazee, Charles A. The Orthodox Church and Independent Greece, 1821-1852. London: Cambridge University Press, 1969.

Henderson, G. P. The Revival of Greek Thought, 1620-1830. Albany: State University of New York Press, 1970.

Speake, Graham. Mount Athos: Renewal in Paradise. New Haven: Yale University Press, 2002.

I haven't seen these, but will have to look them up. Each, though, seems particular to the Turkocratia and its particular impact (even after its end) on the Greek world.

I've got a good book on general Russian history that covers, as a result, a lot of the Church history for Russia and the some of the bordering Slav lands during the late middle ages up through the fall of communism.

But then that leaves out the West. Plenty of good volumes on that, but the trick would be finding someone to write a single volume covering the whole period (Greek world, Slavic world, Protestant world, Catholic world, and Oriental Orthodox world). That is a TALL order.

Also, Paschalis Kitromilides is a recent scholar who works on the general period in English:

Kitromilides, Paschalis. An Orthodox Commonwealth: Symbolic Legacies and Cultural Encounters in Southeastern Europe. Aldershot, Hampshire, Great Britain: Ashgate/Variorum, 2007.

Kitromilides, Paschalis, ed. Eleftherios Venizelos: The Trials of Statesmanship. Edinburgh: Edinburgh University Press, 2006.

Kitromilides, Paschalis. Enlightenment, Nationalism, Orthodoxy: Studies in the Culture and Political Thought of South-Eastern Europe. Aldershot, Hampshire: Variorum, 1994.

Kitromilides, Paschalis. The Enlightenment As Social Criticism: Iosipos Moisiodax and Greek Culture in the Eighteenth Century. Princeton Modern Greek Studies. Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press, 1992.

These look interesting. Thank you!

Hopefully this helps some. I too am looking forward to Macarius' history lessons!

As am I... first post is, eh, half done? It is proving more difficult to find time than I expected. I need to aim a bit lower and remember that I'm writing for a forum, not an academic publisher (who would want a well edited, footnoted document with well-documented sources).

 

[Macarius]

Ok - the first post is up because I split it into "two." The first post in St. Basil's is an overview of the project and a discussion of some "meta" issues (essentially outlining my approach and emphasis). It will link, in turn, to the overview posts on each era as I write them.

Mods - please make the post in St. Basil's a sticky and let this one float / die here in main-TAW. I will NOT need subsequent posts in St. Basil's to be "sticky" since the first post will link to them. I will, periodically, post in main TAW when a new post or series of posts goes up, though I won't do that every time since that would be annoying.

Thanks!
Macarius

 

[Ortho_Cat]

gotcha covered!