Church and State

[visionary]

China's Catholic Church pledges loyalty to Party after Vatican deal

Is this compromise or is it workable and still remain true to God?

 

[Strathos]

Religion should not be beholden to government nor vice-versa.

 

[Dave-W]

Religion should not be beholden to government

Agree 100%

nor vice-versa.

Disagree. We are to bring the government of this world under the rule of Christ.

“ The kingdoms of this world have become the Kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ,”

 

[Monna]

We are to bring the government of this world under the rule of Christ.

“ The kingdoms of this world have become the Kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ,”

Where does this quote come from?
Jesus said clearly, "my kingdom is not of this world." (John 18:36) and he said it to Pontius Pilate, representative of the Roman Empirical authority. Elsewhere he indicated that his is a spiritual kingdom consisting of his followers.

As Christians we are to be the salt and light of the earth, realising that this means we will be as sheep surrounded by wolves. We are not called to power on this earth, and are citizens of "heaven." We are also ambassadors of the kingdom of God.

IMHO...
As a collective, the church should definitely behave as the moral conscience of a nation - and this is primarily through example ('they will know you are my disciples if you love one another'). Power corrupts ALWAYS. Whether we look a Buddhist, Muslim, or Christian religious bodies, whenever they rise to positions of earthly (political/economic) power they themselves become corrupted. Therefore I personally am convinced that the organised "Church" should not wield political power, but display moral authority within its own "house." It is only when Jesus, the Christ, himself returns, that we will have a righteous king in place. Christians as independent citizens in their respective countries should follow the Spirit's guidance as to whether or not to seek political office or engage in political activities - bearing in mind that their behaviour should at all times reflect the values of thier Lord.

Again, that is my person opinion ... but then I am one of those who believe, like William Stringfellow and others, that all human organisations are/were subject to the Fall, and inherently under the hegemony of "death." This includes the man-made religious organisations (including CHURCHes). The Body of Christ is not a denomination, or group of denominations, but a Spiritual organism, not an heirarchical organisation or institution.

(I have no doubt that many will hotly disagree with me.)

 

[Dave-W]

Where does this quote come from?

Rev 11.15

 

[Strathos]

Rev 11.15

That refers to direct divine rule. I'm talking about theocratic governments ruled by people who claim to speak for God. Historically those have never worked out very well.

 

[durangodawood]

....Disagree.....

Govt should be beholden to religion???

Now thats a tried and true recipe for disaster.

 

[Dave-W]

Govt should be beholden to religion???

Government should be subservient to GOD. (not necessarily any particular religious denomination or faith stream)

 

[Holoman]

I think the church and the state should be separate, not for the sake of the state, but for the sake of the church.

Jesus was wise enough to not get himself wrapped up in politics when he preached.

 

[Desk trauma]

Government should be subservient to GOD. (not necessarily any particular religious denomination or faith stream)

How does a government go about submitting to an amorphous, ecumenical deity?

 

[FireDragon76]

How does a government go about submitting to an amorphous, ecumenical deity?

American civil religion?

 

[FireDragon76]

Things have always been tough for Catholics in China because Sun Yat-sen Three-Self movement was opposed to foreign religious influence in China. Sun himself was not a communist, but he was very much in favor of indingenous religious leadership only (he was a convert to Protestantism and believed in self-rule of Chinese religious institutions).

Unfortunately, Christianity in China was used to facilitate exploitation by colonial powers, and to split the Chinese people against each other. That is why the Chinese governmet has historic hostility to non-indigenous expressions of Christianity.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Religion should not be beholden to government nor vice-versa.

Most ESPECIALLY not to the Chinese government, nor to any others like theirs who desire to follow suite.

 

[Dave-W]

Most ESPECIALLY not to the Chinese government,

The government of Communist-occupied China must bow their knees to the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

 

[loveofourlord]

Agree 100%


Disagree. We are to bring the government of this world under the rule of Christ.

“ The kingdoms of this world have become the Kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ,”

Whose version? Catholic? Pentacostal, liberal christian, jehova's witnesses, morman's? I mean whose ever version you end up with it's doubtful going to be all yours.

 

[loveofourlord]

We've seen what happens when sects of Chrsitianity gain control of goverments, you end up with anything but catholics being banned, or public schools being mostly catholic and teaching only catholic ideals, or what happened in the US where both catholics and protestants removed Christianity from schools because they were tired of the other group telling students in school why the other one was the wrong religion.

 

[mark kennedy]

This sounds like vintage Rome and should be good for China's Catholics. China has always been pretty open to religion because of their culture, I can only hope its a step in the right direction.

 

[Dave-W]

Whose version? Catholic? Pentacostal, liberal christian, jehova's witnesses, morman's? I mean whose ever version you end up with it's doubtful going to be all yours.

I could give you an answer but it would anger everyone on your list.