Originally posted by GTX
Actually, lets make that between 80 and 95 AD. You don't discount the book of revelation do you?
Originally posted by GTX
Actually, lets make that between 80 and 95 AD. You don't discount the book of revelation do you?
Originally posted by GTX
Not you npetreley, you are not a Transmillenialist (preterist) are you?
40%? I can get a better deal!
Originally posted by parousia70
I eagerly await in joyful anticipation for your scholarly, if automated, response.
The testimony of the Fathers on the point before us is just what, in view of the facts above detailed, we might expect. With few exceptions, it is unanimous in ascribing the exile of John, and the writing of the Apocalypse, to the time of Domitian. We commence with Irenaeus, bishop of Lyons, in Gaul. He had been a disciple of Polycarp, who was a disciple of the apostle John. He must have been familiarly acquainted with the circumstances of John's banishment, with the time of it, and the person by whom it had been decreed. He could not have been mistaken on these points, nor is there any mistake or ambiguity in his testimony. 'The Apocalypse,' he tells us, was seen not long ago, but almost in our own generation, near the end of the reign of Domitian.'[9] This testimony has never been set aside, and never can be. It is enough of itself, considering the circumstances, to decide the question before us.
But this testimony does not stand alone. It is concurred in by nearly all the more distinguished Fathers. Victorinus says repeatedly, that John was banished by Domitian, and in his time saw the Revelation. Hippolytus speaks of John as having been exiled to Patmos under Domitian, where he saw the Apocalypse.[10] Eusebius, speaking of the persecution, says: 'In this persecution, John the apostle and evangelist, being still alive, was banished into the isle of Patmos.'[11] Jerome, in his book of illustrious men, says: 'Domitian, in the fourteenth year of his reign, raised the next persecution after Nero, when John was banished to the isle of Patmos, where he wrote the Revelation.' In another work, he says: 'John was a prophet. He saw the Revelation in the isle of Patmos, where he was banished by Domitian.'[12] Sulpicius Severus says, that 'John, the apostle and evangelist, was banished by Domitian to the isle of Patmos, where he had visions, and where he wrote the Revelation.'[13]
It would be needless to multiply quotations like these, and pursue them to a later period. It has been said that these testimonies are of little value, since they are all based one upon another, and ultimately upon that of Irenaeus. But this is not true; at least, no one has any right or reason to affirm that it is true. They go to show what was the settled conviction of the Church on the point before us, from the second century to the sixth,-the very time when the question could best be settled; and, in the judgment then formed, and so unanimously expressed, it becomes us of the nineteenth century to acquiesce. It cannot be reversed but upon vastly weightier reasons than any that have yet been urged.
Originally posted by parousia70
OK GTX, time to tune up your "automator" and provide scriptural evidence that Revelation was written when you contend it was. Heck, I'll make it even easier....the evidence doesen't need to be scriptural, any evidence will do.
Are you up to the challenge?
Can you back up your assertion with facts?
I eagerly await in joyful anticipation for your scholarly, if automated, response.
Originally posted by GTX
I will try to make it as automated as possible.
The strength of the late '60's date rests on the popular myth of that period that the deranged emperor Nero would be revived. This myth parallels much of the imagry of chapter 13's reference to "the temple of God" and the "alter" in Jerusalem, which were both destroyed in 70 AD, also supports the earlier dating.
Originally posted by GTX But the later date, near the end of Domitians reign as emperor [81-96 AD], is far more likely. The picture of suffering seen in Revelation seems closer to what is known of the persecution under Domitian. There is also the statement of Irenaeus, in about 185 AD, that John wrote Revelation at the close of Domitians reign. This would be around 95 AD.
Originally posted by GTX
Also you are discounting the literal scripture of bodily resurrection as clearly described by Job? [/B]
Originally posted by GTX
I will try to make it as automated as possible.
But the later date, near the end of Domitians reign as emperor [81-96 AD], is far more likely. The picture of suffering seen in Revelation seems closer to what is known of the persecution under Domitian.
Originally posted by Manifestation1*AD70
You are going to run into problems with that kind of statement. The problem with this [Domitian date] theory is that there is no evidence that during the last decade of the first century there occurred any open and systematic persecution of the church.
[automator disengaged]
Jerome, in his book of illustrious men, says: 'Domitian, in the fourteenth year of his reign, raised the next persecution after Nero, when John was banished to the isle of Patmos, where he wrote the Revelation.'
Originally posted by npetreley
From the essay linked above:
Originally posted by Manifestation1*AD70
That is not recorded as a fact.
Originally posted by GTX
I will try to make it as automated as possible.
The strength of the late '60's date rests on the popular myth of that period that the deranged emperor Nero would be revived. This myth parallels much of the imagry of chapter 13's reference to "the temple of God" and the "alter" in Jerusalem, which were both destroyed in 70 AD, also supports the earlier dating.
But the later date, near the end of Domitians reign as emperor [81-96 AD], is far more likely. The picture of suffering seen in Revelation seems closer to what is known of the persecution under Domitian. There is also the statement of Irenaeus, in about 185 AD, that John wrote Revelation at the close of Domitians reign. This would be around 95 AD.
Also you are discounting the literal scripture of bodily resurrection as clearly described by Job.
Originally posted by ArtistEd
Hi GTX,
thought you might find this interesting.
Robert Young (1885)
"It was written in Patmos about A.D.68, whither John had been banished by Domitious Nero, as stated in the title of the Syriac version of the book ; and with this concurs the express statement of Irenaeus in A.D.175, who says it happened in the reign of Domitianou -- ie., Domitious (Nero). Sulpicius, Orosius, etc., stupidly mistaking Domitianou for Domitianikos, supposed Irenaeus to refer to Domition, A.D. 95, and most succeeding writers have fallen into the same blunder. The internal testimony is wholly in favor of the earlier date." (Commentary on Revelation - Young's Analytical Concordance)
Ed
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