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Tellyontellyon

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I'm a bit confused. Christmas is about Jesus being born... but there seems to be so much emphasis on Saint Nicholas... how come?
The message is a lot about love and giving... which I can see it's really important for Christians.
But how come does Christianity's biggest festival have so much emphasis on somebody who I can't even find in the Bible? Or is St. Nicholas a sort of reborn version of Jesus?
 

eleos1954

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I'm a bit confused. Christmas is about Jesus being born... but there seems to be so much emphasis on Saint Nicholas... how come?
The message is a lot about love and giving... which I can see it's really important for Christians.
But how come does Christianity's biggest festival have so much emphasis on somebody who I can't even find in the Bible? Or is St. Nicholas a sort of reborn version of Jesus?

cultural traditions .... and thereby exploited for financial gain.
 
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HTacianas

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I'm a bit confused. Christmas is about Jesus being born... but there seems to be so much emphasis on Saint Nicholas... how come?
The message is a lot about love and giving... which I can see it's really important for Christians.
But how come does Christianity's biggest festival have so much emphasis on somebody who I can't even find in the Bible? Or is St. Nicholas a sort of reborn version of Jesus?

There was a Saint Nicolaus who gave presents to children at one time. He grew into a legend and was pretty much coopted by secular society. There is a Christ's Mass that is Christian but most of what we know as Christmas doesn't have much to do with it.
 
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Subduction Zone

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The date for Jesus's birth is very uncertain. The Bible does not make it clear at all and you will find arguments for it being from some time in September to as late as March or even April. There are some arguments that the December 25 date was chosen at least partially to co-opt various Roman pagan holidays that existed when Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire. We may never know the actual reason that the date of the 25th was chosen. It does not appear to be the actual date of birth.
 
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Mark Quayle

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I'm a bit confused. Christmas is about Jesus being born... but there seems to be so much emphasis on Saint Nicholas... how come?
The message is a lot about love and giving... which I can see it's really important for Christians.
But how come does Christianity's biggest festival have so much emphasis on somebody who I can't even find in the Bible? Or is St. Nicholas a sort of reborn version of Jesus?
It's a bit like the notion that the Christmas tree has pagan roots. It doesn't matter to me where it began. From what I've been told many of our Christian hymns are reworded barroom songs. I didn't know Santa Claus was St Nick and when I did, I didn't know St Nick had anything to do with the Christmas story. Santa Claus has only ever been just a decoration. But I don't like the Little Drummer Boy having anything to do with the Manger Scene!
 
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James_Lai

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I'm a bit confused. Christmas is about Jesus being born... but there seems to be so much emphasis on Saint Nicholas... how come?
The message is a lot about love and giving... which I can see it's really important for Christians.
But how come does Christianity's biggest festival have so much emphasis on somebody who I can't even find in the Bible? Or is St. Nicholas a sort of reborn version of Jesus?

Possibly pre-Christian tradition of Germanic god Odin flying in his sleigh in the sky during winter solstice Yule season.
 
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Lukaris

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From what I gather, Christmas, or the Lord’s Nativity, is the fulfillment of Jewish Chanukah. Chanukah was installed in commemoration of restoring the Temple from pagan desecration during the Maccabean revolt in the 2nd century BC. This testified to in the 2nd book of Maccabees ( 2nd Maccabees 10:1-9) which is in the Bible of the Orthodox and Catholic Churches.

2 MACCABEES CHAPTER 10 KJV


In 2nd Maccabees 10 verse 5, it mentions that the 1st day of the 8 day celebration is on the 25th of “Casleu” ;

Casleu in Hebrew - English-Hebrew Dictionary | Glosbe

Casleu is also, I believe, translated as “Kislev” and maybe a couple other derivations. The Jewish calendar is lunar or partly so and this 25th day falls between November & December but Christian tradition called for a fixed day of December 25th. Unlike Easter which is still followed by the lunar calendar and falls at different days on the solar calendar.

The Gospel of John, I believe, begins with the testimony of our Lord’s divinity and His incarnation with the sense of the Chanukah observance as an appropriate background especially John 1:1-5 and John 1:14. Later in the Gospel of John in John 10 that the Lord testifies that He is the Good Shepherd ( John 10:14) and it was during Chanukah ( “feast of dedication” in the Gospel ) that He said this in John 10:22-24 in the Temple.

This is fulfillment of the Nativity accounts in the Gospels of Matthew and Luke since Jesus Christ is now the Good Shepherd to the shepherds who heard the Gospel at His birth.
 
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James_Lai

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So why is it still such a big thing among Christians?

Similar to Easter bunny and eggs of pre-Christian fertility goddess during spring equinox. Traditions are very persistent, even when they lose their original meaning.
 
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Tellyontellyon

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Similar to Easter bunny and eggs of pre-Christian fertility goddess during spring equinox. Traditions are very persistent, even when they lose their original meaning.
It's nice that Christians show this respect for other religions and include them in their own traditions.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I'm a bit confused. Christmas is about Jesus being born... but there seems to be so much emphasis on Saint Nicholas... how come?
The message is a lot about love and giving... which I can see it's really important for Christians.
But how come does Christianity's biggest festival have so much emphasis on somebody who I can't even find in the Bible? Or is St. Nicholas a sort of reborn version of Jesus?

St. Nicolas of Myra was a real person, he was the 4th century bishop of the city of Myra in what is now modern-day Turkey. He is remembered as one of the bishops who met at Nicea for the First Ecumenical Councils (325 AD), later medieval legends depict him as having been so offended by what the heretic Arius was saying at the council that he slapped him (but as noted, the story is almost certainly apocryphal and legendary).

What is more reliable are the many stories of St. Nicholas' generosity. Nicholas came from a fairly wealthy family, and so even though he was a bishop he had inherited a decent amount of the family's wealth. He used that wealth to help the less fortunate in his diocese. One story has St. Nicholas secretly depositing bags of money in the window of a family in order to save the daughters of that family from being trafficked into prostitution.

December 6th is the Feast Day of St. Nicholas (in the same way that February 14th is the Feast Day of St. Valentine, and March 17th is the Feast Day of St. Patrick).

In various parts of Western Europe customs surrounding the celebration of St. Nicholas' Day arose. One particular place, the Netherlands had the custom of children leaving their shoes outside the front door for St. Nicholas to come by on the eve of his feast day to leave a gold coin. These Dutch customs surrounding Sinterklaas (St. Nicholas in Dutch) were brought by the Dutch colonists who settled New Amsterdam--which would later become New York when it transferred into English possession. But that didn't stop the Dutch influence from disappearing, instead it remained and was later mixed together with English customs.

One of those English customs was the folk character of Father Christmas, a sort of generalized symbol of the "spirit" of the Christmas season, a kindly figure. The origins of Father Christmas are ambiguous, but there is speculation that it is probably a Christian re-interpretation of an older Pagan figure, some argue possibly Odin. But the Father Christmas that came to the North American continent was a distinctively Christian, though perhaps only vaguely so, figure that was a broad representation of Christmas and Christmas time.

In New England this fusion of the Dutch Sinterklaas and the English Father Christmas resulted in the figure known as Santa Claus. A saintly, but fictional, jolly good-tempered spirit or elf or man that lived in the farthest reaches to the unknown north (specifically somewhere in the northern parts of Finland, but in the American version eventually being replaced at the north pole--still retaining his reindeer though from his Finnish past). The generous gift-giving St. Nicholas became the "spirit" of the Christmas season, Father Christmas the kindly spirit of the season now a gift-giving figure from somewhere up north.

You can thank 19th century English and American writers, and a really strong Coca-Cola advertisement campaign, with the jolly old man in a red suit delivering presents to good boys and girls all around the world on Christmas Eve.

That's how St. Nicholas became associated with Christmas.

Santa Claus actually isn't important for the overwhelming majority of Christians. A lot of Christians will even try to demonize the fictional character, though that's pretty harsh and extreme if you ask me. I think that what you will find is that for a lot of Christians, maybe most, Santa is just a fun little silly thing for kids, something that is fun and helps teach about the goodness of generosity.

Now, the commercialization and use of Santa Claus in that commercialization, well that is definitely it's own subject. About which I don't believe there is any justification--it's just the appropriation of the Christian religion by corporations and capitalism. I think it's gross.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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Similar to Easter bunny and eggs of pre-Christian fertility goddess during spring equinox. Traditions are very persistent, even when they lose their original meaning.

You might be surprised that this theory doesn't actually have any material support.

Our sole historical source for the supposed worship of a goddess named Eostre among the pre-Christian Anglo-Saxons is the Ven. Bede, an 8th century Anglo-Saxon monk and fairly prolific writer. Bede's work The Reckoning of Time is our source here, and what Bede tells us is incredibly little.

First, it's important to understand what Bede was writing about, namely the names of the Anglo-Saxon months. He had been talking about how the Romans named the months, and other matters of calendar nomenclature, and so he decides to speak about the Anglo-Saxon calendar. In doing so Bede attempts to explain the etymology behind the names of the months, and to the month of Eostermonath Bede says it is named after a goddess named Eostre that was at one time worshiped by the Anglo-Saxons before they had converted to Christianity. He adds to this only to say that, in his own time that because the whole significance of the month was taken up by the importance of the Paschal Feast that it had become common to speak of the Paschal season by the name of this month; thus calling the Paschal Feast "Eoster", modern English "Easter".

Just as important as what Bede does tell us, is what is entirely absent: any mention as to how the old Anglo-Saxons worshiped this goddess. We aren't even told that she was a fertility goddess, that can only be assumed because her month was a spring-time month (so, it's a fair assumption to make). But there's nothing about eggs, or hares/rabbits/bunnies.

Then there's the other issue, as noted, Bede is the only source. Not just written source, but any kind of source at all. We have nothing to corroborate it, nothing that was written earlier, or even later. All later writers (such as Jacob Grimm) are entirely dependent upon Bede. And we have no archeological evidence.

This is also true with the only other month that Bede says was named after an Anglo-Saxon deity, Hretha (the month in question being Hrethamonath). Again, Hretha is only attested in Bede, here in his Reckoning of Time.

There is a possible alternative hypothesis that Eostermonath isn't named for a goddess named Eostre, but is instead named for the direction of the rising sun, the Dawn-month (as there is an etymological connection between Eoster[n] and East). It's the month where the sun is observed as rising earlier.

Not that I want to disrespect Bede, it does seem quite possible that in his attempts to explain the meaning behind the month names, he may have offered his best and educated guess. Or, it's possible he was correct and we simply are not privy to whatever information or sources that were available to Bede.

The origin of the Easter Bunny, if there is any pagan connection at all, is completely obscured to us. Though as we can trace the Easter Bunny back to the German Osterhase, which seems to have (at least its most recent) origins in the medieval Christian use of the hare as a symbol. The hare was a symbol of virginity (due to an ancient mistaken notion in the Classical period that hares were hermaphrodites and could reproduce parthenogenically. So the hare became associated with the Virgin Mary,

fond_1_01.jpg


The hare was also used in medieval church architecture as part of Trinitarian symbols,

3Hares0-657x360.jpg


Again, there may be older pagan antecedents from which Christians appropriated use of the hare as a symbol, but evidence in support of that seems slim at best. I'm not suggesting it didn't happen at all, only that it gets overplayed today due to a lot of mass misinformation.

This is one of those examples of where a "everyone knows that..." piece of information is actually just a commonly repeated non-fact. Like when people say that everyone in Europe before Columbus thought the world was flat. Well, no, not only is there no evidence of that, the actual evidence we do have actually says something very different.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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