Christmas Programs

onesheep · Dec 16, 2004

Pardon me if this has already been broached here, but I didn't see anything in my quick perusal of the forum.

On another board (a political forum where the majority of posters are Christian), someone posted about their daughter's "holiday concert". The gist of it was they expected the event to be somewhat "multi cultural", but there were two songs celebrating Hanukkah (complete with a dancing dreidel), a Kwanzaa song, several festive holiday songs about elves and such, but absolutely no mention of Christmas.

Of course, they are now being called "holiday programs", "winter festivals", and so on.

So I was wondering, how many people who don't have their children in Catholic School are having the same thing happening in their children's schools.

PeterPaul · Dec 16, 2004

Oops, I thought your post said "Christian Pogroms". Sorry.

geocajun · Dec 16, 2004

I would not be offended at all about Hannakah. I believe some Catholics have Menorahs in their house even. Heck, its a celebration of our history as Christians.
Kwanza on the other hand... no way.
I would be talking to the school principal and asking why there is no celebration of Christmas myself.. unless they mean to imply that all other religions which are celebrated aren't really religions, and that only Christianity is, therefore it cannot be celebrated at school.

Make sure you frame the question like that or similar. You could even ask them why they are persecuting Jews and Muslims by claiming their religions aren't religions at all.
Tell them this Christian bigotry must be stopped!

PeterPaul · Dec 16, 2004

geocajun said:
I would not be offended at all about Hannakah. I believe some Catholics have Menorahs in their house even. Heck, its a celebration of our history as Christians.
Kwanza on the other hand... no way.
I would be talking to the school principal and asking why there is no celebration of Christmas myself.. unless they mean to imply that all other religions which are celebrated aren't really religions, and that only Christianity is, therefore it cannot be celebrated at school.

Make sure you frame the question like that or similar. You could even ask them why they are persecuting Jews and Muslims by claiming their religions aren't religions at all.
Tell them this Christian bigotry must be stopped!

I bought a Menorah a couple of years ago. I couldn't resist the irony when I saw one made of nails.

CountryMom · Dec 16, 2004

Not totally answering your question, but, We have a public school in our area that has banned teachers from saying "Merry Christmas" to their students!

faerieevaH · Dec 16, 2004

I'm teaching in a public school. We have no nativity scene (except in my class), but we do have a christmas tree, a christmas fair, etc. The wishes in the decoration however is 'happy new year'... *L* Christmas music however is used in music lessons, etc. And I do believe we have a few decorations with Merry Christmas as well... They're careful here not to push one religion forward, but they're not going overboard and ignoring Christmas. The muslim children got a day off for the sugarfeast at the end of the Ramadan, so I guess they just try and be fair.

geocajun · Dec 16, 2004

faerieeva said:
I'm teaching in a public school. We have no nativity scene (except in my class), but we do have a christmas tree, a christmas fair, etc. The wishes in the decoration however is 'happy new year'... *L* Christmas music however is used in music lessons, etc. And I do believe we have a few decorations with Merry Christmas as well... They're careful here not to push one religion forward, but they're not going overboard and ignoring Christmas. The muslim children got a day off for the sugarfeast at the end of the Ramadan, so I guess they just try and be fair.

shouldn't all children have had that day off? Do we make Muslims and Jews go to school or work on Christmas day?

faerieevaH · Dec 16, 2004

geocajun said:
shouldn't all children have had that day off? Do we make Muslims and Jews go to school or work on Christmas day?

You're right about that. It was my first thought as well, and it is unfair. The muslims also get the two weeks of christmas holidays and easter holidays (I'm so glad we still call them that).
To be honest, the school does not 'check' that day who is muslim and Catholic and non believing, etc....
It's a constant difficult balance, because if we make noise about that one day that we allow muslims to stay home, they might start to nag about why a Christian holiday merrits two weeks of vacation and the end of Ramadan only one etc.
But when I heard of that, I also wondered: "And are they comming to school one day earlier from the christmas vacation?"

RhetorTheo · Dec 16, 2004

How can they ban you from saying "Merry/Happy [Federal Holiday]"? What kind of nonsense is that?

PeterPaul · Dec 16, 2004

faerieeva said:
You're right about that. It was my first thought as well, and it is unfair. The muslims also get the two weeks of christmas holidays and easter holidays (I'm so glad we still call them that).
To be honest, the school does not 'check' that day who is muslim and Catholic and non believing, etc....
It's a constant difficult balance, because if we make noise about that one day that we allow muslims to stay home, they might start to nag about why a Christian holiday merrits two weeks of vacation and the end of Ramadan only one etc.
But when I heard of that, I also wondered: "And are they comming to school one day earlier from the christmas vacation?"

Not for nothing, but this complacency in first world nations, whether my home or the US, to have to be "fair" is getting on my nerves.

geocajun · Dec 16, 2004

RhetorTheo said:
How can they ban you from saying "Merry/Happy [Federal Holiday]"? What kind of nonsense is that?

I bet it won't be 5 years before someone (ACLU?) sues to have the holiday renamed.

PeterPaul · Dec 16, 2004

I don't know about anyone else, but while there are always Catholic criticisms of nations, and they are valid, I never came to the US and insisted that the US cater to me. I took classes on English in Spain, and I even went to a special institute to learn the language. When I came here, I knew I would have to double my efforts if I wanted a stable life. Why in the world would I ask them to conform to my language?

How Muslims can complain in Spain, Belgium or wherever about Christians celebrating what is their right is beyond me.

geocajun · Dec 16, 2004

Its simple PP, you should be muslim, but your not smart enough to know any better.
Don't worry, sometime a muslim will be along to help you understand that.

PeterPaul · Dec 16, 2004

geocajun said:
Its simple PP, you should be muslim, but your not smart enough to know any better.
Don't worry, sometime a muslim will be along to help you understand that.

In Spain, every year Muslims come to S. Spain and work the fields. One year there was a drought and there was no work. They were on the news claiming bigotry. The government told them to find the nearest airport if they didn't like it.

ZooMom · Dec 16, 2004

My two middle children are in Chorus at their School. When it came time for their 'Holiday Program', Mallory gave me a copy of the songs they would be singing. Let's see, among the titles were 'Holiday Hoe-down' (a yee-haw squaredance type piece...no mention of Jesus), 'Over the Freeway and to the Mall' (a spirited shopping piece replete with admonitions to 'get the loot' but 'make sure your credit card clears'), Food, Food, Food (a filling piece on...well...food), and a few other obligatory songs about reindeer and yard lights. Then there was a very respectful song about dancing around the Menorah. I was shocked that there wasn't a Kwanza song thrown in, but obviously someone fell down on the job.

I asked my kids where the songs were about Jesus. What about Silent Night? Away in a Manger? They said there weren't any on the program.

We made other arrangements that night and the children weren't able to participate in the program. Mallory's teacher called and said that Mallory had told her that she didn't like those songs, because that's not what Christmas is about. My angel. I was definitely upset by the program, and told the teacher so. And I'm not anti-Santa, and you can bet we sing Rudolph and Deck the Halls, but these songs?! These pagan hymns that glorify greed and gluttony and pay homage to the god of money?! When I asked why the Jewish song was allowed, she merely pointed out that the song made no mention of a God or Lord. Just Mennorah, dreidel, hora which apparently (in HER opinion) only signify yet more gifts and games. (We have GOT to get that rolleyes smilie back!)

Anyway, the whole thing had me steamed, just knowing that my children had been practicing those songs weekly without me even knowing, and the children not telling me because they knew it would upset me. Mallory was almost crying. She said she didn't want to sing them, but that the teacher would give her a bad grade if she didn't, and my daughter is very consciencious about her grades. I hate that she was put in a position of feeling guilty on any level.

What's really ironic is that my oldest daughter's orchestra class is practicing Ave Maria.

Peace be with you!

Sandy

onesheep · Dec 16, 2004

The poster did in fact send an e-mail to the principal and music teacher and cc'd his daughter's teacher.

Dear Ms. _______

First, I want to thank you for the work that you have done with the kindergarten class at Indian Hills Elementary School. At the holiday concert the children all seemed enthusiastic and excited about performing and interested in the things that they are learning about music.

That being said, I do have some concerns about the songs that were selected for the performance last night. It was obvious that the songs were intended for the holiday season, and you specifically included two Hanukkah songs, a Kwanza song, and several other festive holiday selections. However, in recognizing the religious and cultural traditions associated with Hanukkah and Kwanza, you completely ignored an important religious tradition that is celebrated by many, if not most, of the families in the school: the Christmas holiday.

I can accept the fact that the school wants to be sensitive to the traditions of all of its students, but I cannot understand how you can justify specifically excluding any mention of Christmas as you attempt to recognize numerous other holiday traditions. At best, it was a glaring oversight, at worst it was a deliberate rejection of a tradition that many families, including mine, hold dear. I dont expect the school to take on the role of teaching my children everything that there is to know about Christmasthats my job. However, if the school wants to undertake a multi-cultural approach to the holiday season, it is important that it not expressly suppress a song about the only official recognized public holiday associated with the season.

I trust that you will do a better job in the future of being fair and equitable to all forms of celebration during the holiday season.

Merry Christmas,

The teachers at this school were also told they could not say Merry Christmas.

Someone stated that there is not really any spiritual significance to Kwanzaa or Hanukkah, including the dancing dreidel.

Kwanzaa I agree with but Hanukhah and the dreidel?

One of the best known symbols of Chanukah is the Dreidel. A dreidel is a four sided top with a Hebrew letter on each side.

These letters mean "A Great Miracle Happened There."In Israel the dreidel is a bit different in that their letters mean " A Miracle Happened HERE!"

WHAT is it that is carved on the sides of our Dreidel?
Nun, Gimmel, Sin, Heh... On the surface, those letters stand for "Nes Gadol Hayah Sham - A great miracle happened there" - The commemoration of a miraculous victory of a faithful few over the might of the Greek Empire. But on a deeper level, the Dreidel is a microcosmic representation of the four kingdoms, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome spinning around the center, the God's People.

The Hand that spins the Dreidel comes from above. Every empire thinks that it will last forever, but The Hand that spins only spins the Dreidel of history for predetermined time and then, each Empire, despite its vainglorious boasting, falters on its axis...and finally

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Christmas Programs

Sheep that looks like Bob

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Thanks for the memories...

Sheep that looks like Bob

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