Christmas Bible Study

[achristian2]

(4) How is Jesus like Isaac?

Isaac was a precursor to Jesus. Genesis 22: God asked Abraham to sacrifice his only son but at the last minute God provided a ram instead. More than 2000 years later, Jesus became the permanent sacrifice.

Some say that God require us to 'give something' up before He gives to us. In this case, Abraham was willing to give his most cherished possession ie his son Isaac. With that willingness, God confirmed His covenant with Abraham that he will be the father of many nations.

 

[achristian2]

There are verses in the bible about praising God and indeed Radagast did through Mary's song had Mary praising God. We praise/worship Him when He is merciful and does great things for us and save us.

This brings me to the question: why does God want us to praise Him? Did a quick search on the internet and was referred to Psalm 117
Praise the Lord, all you nations;
extol him, all you peoples.
For great is his love toward us,
and the faithfulness of the Lord endures forever.
Praise the Lord.

Anybody want to contribute anything?

For me I think its mainly because God had done such a great and wonderful thing by saving us through His son Jesus Christ. Because of His great love for us, not only does He save us for eternity and will not leave us but also provide our needs and comfort us. That's why He ask us not to worry about about our life--what we will eat or drink. Even David said that he had never seen any righteous forsaken or begging for bread (psalm 37:25).

Its interesting to note that Jesus mentioned in Luke 19:40 that even the stones will cry out if the praises to God is silenced.

I've heard of cases where when a person is saved, all they want to do is worship God.

This also reminds me of the song:
Give Thanks with a Grateful Heart

GIVE THANKS
WITH A GRATEFUL HEART
GIVE THANKS
TO THE HOLY ONE
GIVE THANKS
FOR HE'S GIVEN
JESUS CHRIST, HIS SON
(X2)

AND NOW LET THE WEAK SAY
I AM STRONG
LET THE POOR SAY
I AM RICH
BECAUSE OF WHAT
THE LORD HAS DONE
FOR US
(X2)
GIVE THANKS...

 

[Ronald]

And of course, one obvious similarity between Mary and Sarah is that both women gave birth through a miracle

Yes, but one with human seed and one by the Holy Spirit.

There is indeed a danger there, for Jesus is radically unique, but several Old Testament figures are foreshadowings or "types" of Jesus, although they are of course imperfect ones

Familiar with typology.


http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+7&version=ESVUK

Hebrews 7 tells us that Melchizedek was a "type" of Jesus

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+7&version=ESVUK
Mysterious person, no records of where he came from or where he went?
Could he have been the pre-incarnate Jesus or at least an angel?
I believe it was Jesus who walked in the garden, led the Israelites out of Egypt and talked to Moses, wrestled with Jacob and appeared in bodily form showing his face ... I believe it is He who spoke to the prophets ...

Indeed, I think 1 Samuel 2:35-36 is also a prophecy of Jesus

:
Most likely Messianic along with 300 more pointing to Christ.

You have a good knowledge of the Old Testament, I haven't spent much time in it as I should. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Radagast]

Isaac was a precursor to Jesus. Genesis 22: God asked Abraham to sacrifice his only son but at the last minute God provided a ram instead. More than 2000 years later, Jesus became the permanent sacrifice.

Exactly. But as well as that:

* Both Isaac and Jesus came from the same promise (Genesis 17:16 and Genesis 22:17-18). Jesus is the ultimate fulfilment of that promise -- "in your offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed."

* Both Isaac and Jesus had miraculous births (Genesis 17:17 and Luke 1:34), although as Ronald points out, only Jesus was by the Holy Spirit.

* Both Isaac and Jesus were beloved only sons (John 3:16 and Genesis 22:2)

* Both Isaac and Jesus carried the wood for the sacrifice (John 19:17 and Genesis 22:6)

* Both Isaac and Jesus were "raised from the dead" after 3 days (Genesis 22:4 and 1 Corinthians 15:3-4). I'm not making this up -- Hebrews 11:17-19 says: "By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was in the act of offering up his only son, of whom it was said, 'Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.' He considered that God was able even to raise him from the dead, from which, figuratively speaking, he did receive him back."

Some say that God require us to 'give something' up before He gives to us.

Where is that in the Bible?

Mysterious person, no records of where he came from or where he went?
Could he have been the pre-incarnate Jesus or at least an angel?

I don't think Melchizedek was Jesus or an angel. He is spoken of in Hebrews as a human "type."

I do think that the pre-incarnate Jesus wrestled with Jacob, though.

Most likely Messianic along with 300 more pointing to Christ.

Yes. It's not surprising that Mary refers back to some of these Messianic prophecies in her song of thankfulness.

 

[Radagast]

There are verses in the bible about praising God ... We praise/worship Him when He is merciful and does great things for us and save us.

This brings me to the question: why does God want us to praise Him? Did a quick search on the internet and was referred to Psalm 117
Praise the Lord, all you nations;
extol him, all you peoples.
For great is his love toward us,
and the faithfulness of the Lord endures forever.
Praise the Lord.

Mary obviously grew up on Psalms like that. And when she is happy, semi-quotations from the Psalms poor forth from her lips in gratitude.

For me I think its mainly because God had done such a great and wonderful thing by saving us through His son Jesus Christ.

Indeed. We should all be singing like Mary!

One of my personal favourites is this classic by Charles Wesley (the highlighted lines apply particularly to Christmas). Like Mary's song it has Biblical imagery (like Mary's references to Hannah and Sarah), it spells out what God has done (like Mary's "he has filled the hungry with good things"), and it has a sense of humility (like Mary's "he has been mindful of the humble state of his servant"):

And can it be that I should gain
An interest in the Savior’s blood?
Died He for me, who caused His pain—
For me, who Him to death pursued?
Amazing love! How can it be,
That Thou, my God, shouldst die for me?
Amazing love! How can it be,
That Thou, my God, shouldst die for me?

He left His Father’s throne above
So free, so infinite His grace—
Emptied Himself of all but love,
And bled for Adam’s helpless race:
’Tis mercy all, immense and free,
For O my God, it found out me!
’Tis mercy all, immense and free,
For O my God, it found out me!

Long my imprisoned spirit lay,
Fast bound in sin and nature’s night;
Thine eye diffused a quickening ray—
I woke, the dungeon flamed with light;
My chains fell off, my heart was free, (cf Acts 12:7)
I rose, went forth, and followed Thee.
My chains fell off, my heart was free,
I rose, went forth, and followed Thee.

No condemnation now I dread;
Jesus, and all in Him, is mine;
Alive in Him, my living head,
And clothed in righteousness divine,
Bold I approach th’eternal throne,
And claim the crown, through Christ my own.
Bold I approach th’eternal throne,
And claim the crown, through Christ my own.

And Can It Be, That I Should Gain - FBC Choir & Orchestra - YouTube

 

[Radagast]

Anything else on Luke 1:46–55?

 

[achristian2]

Mary obviously grew up on Psalms like that. And when she is happy, semi-quotations from the Psalms poor forth from her lips in gratitude.

Indeed. We should all be singing like Mary!

We need to praise God and to be grateful to Him even in the midst of difficulties. There's something there. I do believe only people that have gone through this will understand that it is so important to do just that.

Not only will it help us to go through the difficult times easier/give us strength, it also helps defeat the devil and prevent him from 'enslaving/snaring' us and it also 'causes' God to work on our behalf. Not sure how to phrase it.

I do believe that when David was in trouble and/or could not feel God, he tells /reminds himself of God's goodness in times past, to praise Him. There's power right there. Can anybody remember which psalms it was?

That's why the bible mentions 'joy' when we fall into difficulties.
James 1:2--Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds..
I can't remember other verses on joy (except 1 in the fruit of the spirit). But its there. Hmmmm... joy--the joy that we experience is actually God's joy, just like its God's love that we experience. We can be joyful because in Romans 8:28--and we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

It doesn't mean that we don't 'fight' to improve our circumstances, we need to (although at times we have to wait on the Lord) but it means even in the midst of the storm, we can still praise God because we know He cares and He is working something good for and in us. Praise God.

 

[achristian2]

Originally Posted by achristian2

Some say that God require us to 'give something' up before He gives to us.
​

Where is that in the Bible?

Well, Abraham was willing to sacrifice Isaac as per God's command.

This also caused me to think of what the bible says---God saved Israel everytime Israel cried out to God and repented (turning from one's sins and looking back to God). In the New Testament, we give control of our lives to God, so that God can/will change us. Even in John 14:15--"If you love me, you will obey what I command.
The bible is full of those. Yes, I know Ephesians 2:8-9--For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God not by works, so that no one can boast.

There is something there. God wants us to 'take a step towards Him in faith', then He will 'take a step to help us' and so on. Its we working together with God to change us. (sometimes though, He will do all the lifting of us when we don't want to or when He wants to free us from certain things). Hmmmm...its kinda difficult to explain it in writing. I have to admit its easier to explain it when one is talking.

 

[Radagast]

We need to praise God and to be grateful to Him even in the midst of difficulties.

This is very true.

I do believe that when David was in trouble and/or could not feel God, he tells /reminds himself of God's goodness in times past, to praise Him.

One can see that in several psalms, e.g. Psalm 77.

We can be joyful because in Romans 8:28--and we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

God wants us to 'take a step towards Him in faith', then He will 'take a step to help us' and so on. Its we working together with God to change us.

I'm not sure that's a Biblical doctrine. Perhaps you haven't expressed yourself exactly as you intended?

God's grace to us is not conditional on anything we do. Mary is a prime example of this: she didn't "earn" the right to be Jesus' mother.

 

[achristian2]

There is something there. God wants us to 'take a step towards Him in faith', then He will 'take a step to help us' and so on. Its we working together with God to change us. (sometimes though, He will do all the lifting of us when we don't want to or when He wants to free us from certain things). Hmmmm...its kinda difficult to explain it in writing. I have to admit its easier to explain it when one is talking.

I'm not sure that's a Biblical doctrine. Perhaps you haven't expressed yourself exactly as you intended?

God's grace to us is not conditional on anything we do. Mary is a prime example of this: she didn't "earn" the right to be Jesus' mother.

Its true that God's grace to us is unconditional, but I'm not talking about that. Perhaps its easier to understand if I give examples.

People have said that prayers change things. When we pray to God in His will, He will listen and give it to us. But then, we have to pray first before He will act (of course there are times as I mentioned earlier, He will act even when we are stubborn). Psalm 37:4 Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart. (when we delight in Him, the desires we have is the desire that He puts in our hearts).

Also in Genesis 18, Abraham pleaded with God to spare Sodom by mentioning the righteous men. Now, why do you think God did not want to hide the fact that He wanted to destroy the city from Abraham (Genesis 18:17). To me (and some bible commentators beliefs which include Matthew Henry as well) that's because He wanted Abraham to plead to save the righteous. And Abraham did plead and God did save Lot's family.

Thus, what we see here is that 'we take a step' and God responds to it. That's what I mean. I know that in my life that's true and from what I've come across in other people's sharing, its true also. Hope this is clearer.

 

[Radagast]

Discussion seems to have wound down, and we should probably have a break over Christmas.

We should resume with a book (probably not Romans). Ephesians, perhaps? What do you think?

 

[achristian2]

I would like Ephesians very much. Thanks.

 

[interpreter]

Jesus was born on March 27th, 4 BC, when the Star in the East (i.e, Venus) appeared over Bethlehem during an eclipse.

 

[Radagast]

Jesus was born on March 27th, 4 BC, when the Star in the East (i.e, Venus) appeared over Bethlehem during an eclipse.

Welcome aboard, but what part of the Bible Study does this theory relate to?

 

[Radagast]

Failing any better ideas, I've started an Ephesians thread here: http://www.christianforums.com/t7710459/#post62023486

I don't plan on seriously getting into it until after Christmas, though.

Mods, please close this thread.