Christians Glorify Humans

[Kleptin]

God is why the universe exists. Let's establish this as a given. Scientists try too hard to find natural explanations for the existance of the universe, some simply stop at "not everything has to have a beginning".

I, personally, accept this definition of God. And when I say that, I mean literally, this definition. Nothing else.

It confuses me when people use the cosmological argument to support the claim that the Christian God exists. It proves nothing, only that the universe had a supernatural cause.

Here's the problem: The Christian God has a lot of frills. This God is essentially human, it experiences human emotions like happiness, loneliness, jealousy, love...It has intelligence. None of these things are the wonder miracles that our society in general takes them to be, in fact, they are simply biochemical reactions that take place in the chunk of meat we call the brain. Are you ready to reduce God to something that runs on an organ that will inevitably fail?

There are those who counter by saying that currently, our image of god is purely metaphorical, that we can never really know God because we are human. The problem with this argument, then, is that we don't know where to draw the line. Is God a being? An organism? Does it love, and is God actively involved in our lives?

One final question: What is is about humans that intrigues God so much? We arrogantly assume that we are more important than we actually are, we arrogantly assume that the thing responsible for the existance of the entire universe, for some reason, values us more than, say, a meteorite or a wave of energy. The thing is, all religious beliefs exist because our minds are clouded with anthropocentrism. If we learn to cut this arrogance and human-centered way of thinking, it will be much easier to understand why atheists, agnostics, and deists have a much firmer grasp on reality than Christians do.

 

[Species8472]

Actually, christians glorify eachother by adhering to principles, such as; Virtue, Wisdom, selflessness, goodness, justice, Love, etc.: all of which are necessary to improve the quality of life for All of mankind.
Atheists, agnostics and whatever--glorify themselves through sin and attachment to the world.
Let us say that_God is why the universe exists_then wouldn't it follow that god must necessarily be a being?
Can a rock create something by itself? Can a star create something by itself? Can man create something by himself?
Are there not ingredients essential to the creation of life? Do we not need air, water, a stable environment, the sun, the moon...to create and maintain life? And can these ingredients act upon themselves without a helping hand?
Does not life create more life?

So the question arises--Did the first lifeform on earth create itself?
If yes then how could this be when it is evident in natural evolution that the origin of a lifeform procedes from another lifeform?
If you disagree with this then give me evidence or a case when a lifeform appeared from thin air. You can't because it is impossible through our understanding that such a thing could occur.

Jesus says that God is pure spirit; and a spirit is something that is not tangible to the flesh.
Now we all know that through science, it has been proven that life originated in water.
The bible gives support to this, as if you would refer to Genesis 1:2: And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Jesus also says to enter the Kingdom of Heaven one must be born of spirit and water.
Any connections? Life originated in water. The spirit of God moved upon water; and one must be born of spirit and water.

It is through sheer ignorance/arrogance that man gazes at a seemingly limitless universe and says, I am at the top of the world; and then he sees not the struggle of life, and how there is a hierarchy of existence and assumes that there is no greater existence than himself.

If you refer to Hebrews 2:7: Thou madest him a little lower than the angels...
Perhaps the bible is a little more advanced since it acknowledges that there is a hierarchy above man; whereas science would not dare to assume.
If you can establish it in your mind that God is a lifeform, Spirit He may be, but a lifeform nonetheless--however so intangible to the flesh then why can't God be capable of Love. We are capable of love; and just consider how much more capable is God's love that he would love something as insignificant as us.

Jesus also says, God is love.
So God is love and God is pure spirit. Why would a pure spirit move upon the waters in order to create life if he didn't mean to love what he created?
Do we not do the same--love what we create?
Take a baby for instance.

 

[Blackguard_]

Here's the problem: The Christian God has a lot of frills. This God is essentially human, it experiences human emotions like happiness, loneliness, jealousy, love...It has intelligence.

having some shared attributes with humans!= human

How is God required to create beings nothing like himself? If God created humans, why is it suprising we would share emotions with him? (yes, I realize you will just argue the reverse is what actually happened, but that is begging the question here)

None of these things are the wonder miracles that our society in general takes them to be, in fact, they are simply biochemical reactions that take place in the chunk of meat we call the brain. Are you ready to reduce God to something that runs on an organ that will inevitably fail?

You're a Materialist, we get it.

Anyway, here Athiesm has the opposite problem. If you are nothing more then biochemical reactions in the brain, then why is killing you worse than turning off the computer I'm typing this on, and how would making you scream in "pain" be any different than holding a guitar too close to an amp? You're at best a bug-ridden piece of software whose functioning and deletion mean nothing.

There are those who counter by saying that currently, our image of god is purely metaphorical, that we can never really know God because we are human. The problem with this argument, then, is that we don't know where to draw the line. Is God a being? An organism? Does it love, and is God actively involved in our lives?

having limited knowledge!=knowing nothing

One final question: What is is about humans that intrigues God so much? We arrogantly assume that we are more important than we actually are, we arrogantly assume that the thing responsible for the existance of the entire universe, for some reason, values us more than, say, a meteorite or a wave of energy.

It's probably Life that intriques him. He's alive so naturally is more interested in life than death, and so values the living part of the universe over the dead.

The thing is, all religious beliefs exist because our minds are clouded with anthropocentrism.

Problem is, even if it's true all religion is really man worshipping himself, it does not necessarily mean there is no God, only that Man is wrong about him.

 

[The Nihilist]

Anyway, here Athiesm has the opposite problem. If you are nothing more then biochemical reactions in the brain, then why is killing you worse than turning off the computer I'm typing this on, and how would making you scream in "pain" be any different than holding a guitar too close to an amp? You're at best a bug-ridden piece of software whose functioning and deletion mean nothing.

Morality is hardwired into the brain. Either this is a sufficient answer as to why it is wrong to kill someone, or it is not wrong to kill.

 

[Blackguard_]

Then it's not wrong to kill.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Morality is hardwired into the brain.

Is the pro-choice or pro-life position on abortion hardwired into the brain?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[The Nihilist]

Is the pro-choice or pro-life position on abortion hardwired into the brain?


eudaimonia,

Mark

Honestly, it's not my area. My understanding is that morality basically comes down to being able to identify with others and not wanting them to be sad.
I, however, think morality is for wimps and have no trouble at all saying that it is not wrong to kill, or even (and this is my real position) that there is no such thing as right or wrong at all.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Honestly, it's not my area. My understanding is that morality basically comes down to being able to identify with others and not wanting them to be sad.

I think that confuses a tool of morality with morality itself. Even if we lacked empathy, we'd still need morality because morality is a code of values for achieving what is in our best interests. And we need to go far beyond our tools in conceptualizing moral principles, because our natures do not give us everything we need to understand how to achieve what is in our best interests.

I, however, think morality is for wimps and have no trouble at all saying that it is not wrong to kill, or even (and this is my real position) that there is no such thing as right or wrong at all.

And this sort of view, all too common among modern philosophers, is what has destroyed the field of ethics.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[faure]

Here's the problem: The Christian God has a lot of frills. This God is essentially human, it experiences human emotions like happiness, loneliness, jealousy, love...It has intelligence. None of these things are the wonder miracles that our society in general takes them to be, in fact, they are simply biochemical reactions that take place in the chunk of meat we call the brain. Are you ready to reduce God to something that runs on an organ that will inevitably fail?

Gen 1:26:27 (Amp)
26God said, Let Us [Father, Son, and Holy Spirit] make mankind in Our image, after Our likeness, and let them have complete authority over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, the [tame] beasts, and over all of the earth, and over everything that creeps upon the earth.
27So God created man in His own image, in the image and likeness of God He created him; male and female He created them.

There are those who counter by saying that currently, our image of god is purely metaphorical, that we can never really know God because we are human. The problem with this argument, then, is that we don't know where to draw the line. Is God a being? An organism? Does it love, and is God actively involved in our lives?

Kinda of a silly question to ask on a Christian board, no?

John 4:24 (Amp)
24God is a Spirit (a spiritual Being) and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth (reality).

If we learn to cut this arrogance and human-centered way of thinking, it will be much easier to understand why atheists, agnostics, and deists have a much firmer grasp on reality than Christians do.

To me those groups of people seem to be really stubborn and mis-guided.

Jesus is the Truth the Way and the Life.

 

[elman]

God is why the universe exists. Let's establish this as a given. Scientists try too hard to find natural explanations for the existance of the universe, some simply stop at "not everything has to have a beginning".

I, personally, accept this definition of God. And when I say that, I mean literally, this definition. Nothing else.

It confuses me when people use the cosmological argument to support the claim that the Christian God exists. It proves nothing, only that the universe had a supernatural cause.

Here's the problem: The Christian God has a lot of frills. This God is essentially human, it experiences human emotions like happiness, loneliness, jealousy, love...It has intelligence. None of these things are the wonder miracles that our society in general takes them to be, in fact, they are simply biochemical reactions that take place in the chunk of meat we call the brain. Are you ready to reduce God to something that runs on an organ that will inevitably fail?

There are those who counter by saying that currently, our image of god is purely metaphorical, that we can never really know God because we are human. The problem with this argument, then, is that we don't know where to draw the line. Is God a being? An organism? Does it love, and is God actively involved in our lives?

One final question: What is is about humans that intrigues God so much? We arrogantly assume that we are more important than we actually are, we arrogantly assume that the thing responsible for the existance of the entire universe, for some reason, values us more than, say, a meteorite or a wave of energy. The thing is, all religious beliefs exist because our minds are clouded with anthropocentrism. If we learn to cut this arrogance and human-centered way of thinking, it will be much easier to understand why atheists, agnostics, and deists have a much firmer grasp on reality than Christians do.

We think we are more important than insects. Are we wrong? How do you know for certain that we actually are not more important than an insect? How do you know for sure that the Creator of all that exist does not consider beings with the ability to love as more important than a hunk of rock? Science is struggling to understand consciousness and you say: " in fact, they are simply biochemical reactions that take place in the chunk of meat we call the brain." I think in fact it is not as simple as that.

 

[Emmy]

Dear klepton, may I just make 1 or 2 points clear. There is only one God, Christians call Him God, Jews call Him Jehovah, and Moslems call Him Allah. Christians have chosen to follow Jesus back to God the Father of the Holy Trinity, there is also God-Son, and God-Holy Spirit, and all 3 Beings/Persons, are ONE great God. He turned the great void, into the ordered Universum, we all know. God made Man too, in His image, and that means we are capable of great Love, as God IS Love. Adam gave up his love to believe the lies of the Serpent, and after Adam and Eve were banned to Earth they moved farther and farther away from God. In time Jesus came, as man, born of woman, to show us how God really is. Jesus died and reconciled us to God, and now we all have to REPENT, to become as loving, as God is loving, and then follow Jesus back to our real home again. It is straightforward, but the Bible will explain it more thorough. Christians glorify God, Father Son and Holy Spirit. I say this humbly and kindly, Klepton, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[ReluctantProphet]

If we learn to cut this arrogance and human-centered way of thinking, it will be much easier to understand why atheists, agnostics, and deists have a much firmer grasp on reality than Christians do.

I have NOT found that to be true at all and have seriously looked for it. You are confused, as are they, about why religions are they way they are. What causes religions to become as they do has not changed by deciding that "we won't worship". In fact, such lustful declarations either for or against, are the very nature of what causes religions to become less than they were designed to be.

Today's new religion is called Science and has no fewer faithful followers and distorted images to it than any prior religion has. People are no different and most certainly do not have a better "grasp on reality" (I wish they did and could gain one).

You are judging religions from a false perspective and those see error where there was none and see a truth that wasn't ever there as well.

Neither you nor the atheist is seeing Truth, but just judging and guessing at what "must surely be better" even though nothing is offered other than to dismiss the old and let someone else decide on the future afterwards. Science is not a political leader.

 

[Nontheist]

you know what I love about all religion? that fact that the deity of choice allah, jehovah, god,etc. The fact that all of them DEMAND our worship. They DEMAND that we worship them based on the their own assumptions that they are so much better than us. I love that if we choose to question or even abandon their "superiority" that we are cast as infidels, traitors, blasphemers. And as a result we are doomed to a life of sin. It doesn't matter that we may try and live our lives as good honest people, As soon as we cease to acknowledge said deity's "superiority", and stop worshipping them we are doomed to hell, hades, the eternal fire.Wow that's some punishment for making up ones own mind about how things are in this universe.

 

[solarwave]

Here's the problem: The Christian God has a lot of frills. This God is essentially human, it experiences human emotions like happiness, loneliness, jealousy, love...It has intelligence. None of these things are the wonder miracles that our society in general takes them to be, in fact, they are simply biochemical reactions that take place in the chunk of meat we call the brain. Are you ready to reduce God to something that runs on an organ that will inevitably fail?

Well we are made in Gods image of God, so we are like Him, not the other way round. Just cos we have what God has, it doesn't mean He is organisum.

One final question: What is is about humans that intrigues God so much? We arrogantly assume that we are more important than we actually are, we arrogantly assume that the thing responsible for the existance of the entire universe, for some reason, values us more than, say, a meteorite or a wave of energy. The thing is, all religious beliefs exist because our minds are clouded with anthropocentrism. If we learn to cut this arrogance and human-centered way of thinking, it will be much easier to understand why atheists, agnostics, and deists have a much firmer grasp on reality than Christians do.

Cos we are His creation that He loves. And love don't seem to need much reason. You can only really love something that is alive.