Christians finally smashing the idol of Multiculturalism

[2PhiloVoid]

Legally, yes, they have that right.



The decision would be morally wrong.

Again, we can talk about practical considerations. A sudden population increase may require building infrastructure -- houses, roads, schools, etc. -- which takes time, so we may have to slow the rate of population increase so that we can properly accommodate the newcomers.

But a decision to stop all immigration from such and such countries would be morally wrong.

..... I'd probably add the little addendum that stopping all immigration from such and such countries would be morally wrong "for biblical reasons."

 

[lifepsyop]

The decision would be morally wrong.

Can you explain why?

Again, we can talk about practical considerations. A sudden population increase may require building infrastructure -- houses, roads, schools, etc. -- which takes time, so we may have to slow the rate of population increase so that we can properly accommodate the newcomers.

But a decision to stop all immigration from such and such countries would be morally wrong.

What about if it is determined that some ethnic groups do not have the ability to assimilate, and that mass immigration of these groups leads to more and more ethnic conflicts?

This is the crux of the Postwar Consensus ideology. According to this ideology, the above scenario is simply not a possibility up for consideration.

We can't ever arrive at the conclusion that mass third-world immigration doesn't work. The facts are not allowed to lead there.



... So returning to the situation in the UK, for example. When it turns out that certain migrant groups do not assimilate into western culture, and instead reinforce their own ethnic enclaves and behave in an extremely racist/ethnocentric way towards outsiders, and target outside ethnic groups.... and things like ethnic-based 'child-rape gangs' appear.... A true believer in the Postwar Consensus cannot see it. It can't be happening, even though it is.

That's a big problem. When the champions of mass immigration are blind to it's negative consequences.

 

[lifepsyop]

..... I'd probably add the little addendum that stopping all immigration from such and such countries would be morally wrong "for biblical reasons."

so opposing mass immigration from Haiti is a sin?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Because he didn't believe in Christian doctrine of the Trinity, among others

I'd want to see documentation from his adult career and ministry to substantiate that--not the papers he wrote while trying to earn his degree.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[2PhiloVoid]

so opposing mass immigration from Haiti is a sin?

It depends. You see, this is where the nuanced evaluation of semantics, syntax and context come into play, particularly when an indefinite pronoun like "all" is a part of another person's statement.

 

[lifepsyop]

It depends. You see, this is where the nuanced evaluation of semantics, syntax and context come into play, particularly when an indefinite pronoun like "all" is a part of another person's statement.

okay, is wanting to stop all immigration from Haiti a sin?

 

[PloverWing]

Can you explain why?

Jesus told us that we should treat strangers the way we would treat Jesus himself. He told us to love our neighbors, even if those neighbors are enemies (just in case we're looking for a loophole). He gave us examples of showing kindness to Samaritans and Romans. Famously, when Jesus was asked about the limits of who my neighbor is, he told a story in which the person showing (not receiving) kindness was a Samaritan. The book of Acts and the letters of St Paul show the Kingdom of God being opened up to people of all nationalities.

What about if it is determined that some ethnic groups do not have the ability to assimilate, and that mass immigration of these groups leads to more and more ethnic conflicts?

If it really is proven that some ethnic groups do not have the ability to assimilate, we can talk about it. What I've seen most often, in my area, is that by the second or third or fourth generation, the descendants of the original immigrants are speaking fluent, unaccented English, and are living and working quite comfortably in American society. Obviously, it helps if these descendants of immigrants have full access to education, housing, employment, and so on .

... So returning to the situation in the UK, for example. When it turns out that certain migrant groups do not assimilate into western culture, and instead reinforce their own ethnic enclaves and behave in an extremely racist/ethnocentric way towards outsiders, and target outside ethnic groups.... and things like ethnic-based 'child-rape gangs' appear.... A true believer in the Postwar Consensus cannot see it. It can't be happening, even though it is.

Child rape is and should be illegal. It should be investigated and punished when it occurs, regardless of the ethnicities of the people involved.

For anyone who hasn't read about the Rotherham story, here's a link to a NY Times summary:

What Is the U.K. ‘Grooming Gang’ Scandal Seized On by Elon Musk?

The billionaire tech mogul has been posting on his social media platform about a decade-old child sex abuse scandal in Britain. Here’s what to know.

www.nytimes.com

The police should have responded much more vigorously; they should have believed and acted upon the girls' reports. And, yes, many of the criminals in the case were of Pakistani descent. They should be prosecuted, just as white rapists should be prosecuted.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I'd want to see documentation from his adult career and ministry to substantiate that--not the papers he wrote while trying to earn his degree.

-CryptoLutheran

I'd like to see evidence he confessed Christian doctrine. One is not automatically a Christian because they day so. Plover provided a list of so called 'Christians' but they all denied Christian doctrine and Christ himself.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Legally, yes, they have that right.



The decision would be morally wrong.

Is it morally wrong to stop someone who desires it to enter one's home? Do you believe in private property? Do communities have no right to determine who belongs and who doesn't?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

okay, is wanting to stop all immigration from Haiti a sin?

Like I said, it depends.

I say "it depends." This issue is freighted with serious, multifold social issues and I'm sure that neither you nor @PloverWing would likely agree with how I would suggest the U.S. met things out.

Most importantly, I don't like to spend much time on issues for which I don't at present have significant stats and data; and since I'm not the one creating and enforcing the laws of the land, it doesn't behoove me to spend time on what is essentially only my own opinion and which has no chance of ever being instituted.

But, with that mind, I would tend to say that yes, stopping "all" immigration from Haiti would be a sin. Stopping some portion of it would not be a sin.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

But, with that mind, I would tend to say that yes, stopping "all" immigration from Haiti would be a sin. Stopping some portion of it would not be a sin.

Would it be a sin for Haiti to stop mass immigration that might change the character and nature of Haiti forever? Lets suppose a million Indonesians want to settle on Haiti. There is no moral way of refusing them?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Would it be a sin for Haiti to stop mass immigration that might change the character and nature of Haiti forever? Lets suppose a million Indonesians want to settle on Haiti. There is no moral way of refusing them?

It depends.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

It depends.

On what? I thought it's immoral to stop immigration.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

On what? I thought it's immoral to stop immigration.

I didn't say that. I know it sounds like I said that, but I didn't.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I didn't say that. I know it sounds like I said that, but I didn't.

Then elaborate.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Then elaborate.

It's simple, really. Saying that it's immoral to stop "all" immigration doesn't preclude another range of options emerging on a continuum of factors.

Therefore, I think we can still stop or impede "some level" of immigration without being immoral, just not all of it, and we can do so even in biblical terms.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

It's simple, really. Saying that it's immoral to stop "all" immigration doesn't preclude another range of options emerging on a continuum of factors.

Therefore, I think we can still stop or impede "some level" of immigration without being immoral, just not all of it, and we can do so even in biblical terms.

So to the ones who would immigrate who cannot be morally stopped we must conclude they have a right to enter a country? Even if they are not welcomed?

 

[lifepsyop]

Jesus told us that we should treat strangers the way we would treat Jesus himself. He told us to love our neighbors, even if those neighbors are enemies (just in case we're looking for a loophole). He gave us examples of showing kindness to Samaritans and Romans. Famously, when Jesus was asked about the limits of who my neighbor is, he told a story in which the person showing (not receiving) kindness was a Samaritan.

Do you think if a family could not even keep their own house in order, and could not even take care of their own children, that Jesus would rebuke them for not inviting in pagans from neighboring regions?

America is struggling greatly to take care of its own people, and the social costs of mass immigration affect those most vulnerable in the native population.

The book of Acts and the letters of St Paul show the Kingdom of God being opened up to people of all nationalities.

So are you arguing that America is the Kingdom of God?

If it really is proven that some ethnic groups do not have the ability to assimilate, we can talk about it.

Do you think African/Middle-eastern ethnic groups in the UK, Germany, etc. are currently showing a strong ability to assimilate?

What I've seen most often, in my area, is that by the second or third or fourth generation, the descendants of the original immigrants are speaking fluent, unaccented English, and are living and working quite comfortably in American society. Obviously, it helps if these descendants of immigrants have full access to education, housing, employment, and so on .

And do you live in a predominantly "white" area by any chance?

Yes, there is no doubt that an immigrant has the potential to assimilate, especially if they are grow up in the host western culture and surrounded by it, and this has happened many times, and I know some of these individuals.

What about the 'mass' immigration situation though, where foreign ethnic groups are instead forming ethnic enclaves and carrying their culture with them? (As is undoubtedly the actual situation in western Europe)

Isn't it past time to admit that mass third-world immigration poses a serious risk to the stability of western nations?

Child rape is and should be illegal. It should be investigated and punished when it occurs, regardless of the ethnicities of the people involved.

For anyone who hasn't read about the Rotherham story, here's a link to a NY Times summary:

What Is the U.K. ‘Grooming Gang’ Scandal Seized On by Elon Musk?

The billionaire tech mogul has been posting on his social media platform about a decade-old child sex abuse scandal in Britain. Here’s what to know.

www.nytimes.com

The police should have responded much more vigorously; they should have believed and acted upon the girls' reports. And, yes, many of the criminals in the case were of Pakistani descent. They should be prosecuted, just as white rapists should be prosecuted.

Should have, but is not. The UK authorities are showing much more concern with the "racism" of UK natives pointing out the ethnic component to this problem.

This is another reason to be skeptical of mass immigration under governments operating on the ideology/religion of the Postwar Consensus.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

So to the ones who would immigrate who cannot be morally stopped we must conclude they have a right to enter a country? Even if they are not welcomed?

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that when I look up to my previous posts above in this thread, I didn't say that.

But, y'know. I'm getting a little older now and my mind isn't what it used to be.

 

[lifepsyop]

But, with that mind, I would tend to say that yes, stopping "all" immigration from Haiti would be a sin. Stopping some portion of it would not be a sin.

Yea... this is a "sin" of a different religion than Christianity.