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Christians and the End Times

+^Gothic_Dreams^+

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if Jesus is supposed to take all the Christians and believers in Him. up to Heaven anyways. Then why do the Christians have to be involved in the End Times still? meaning the Christians that are still alive on this Earth when the End Times began to take form. Why do they have to be involved in it at all? Does that seem fair?


i'm just wondering about this.
 

+^Gothic_Dreams^+

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i'll try to make this Clearer

i mean why do Christians have to be involved in the End Times. when like the Anti Christ comes and all the Locus and everything that it mentions in Revelations about the End Times. Why do Christians that are still alive in the World when the End Times start have to Grow through all that? Doesn't that seem alittle bit unfair?
 
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JeffreyLloyd

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Why did Christians have to die for their faith for the past 2000 years? That has not been fair either. Christians will be around during what we call the "Tribulation." We will have to fight, and it will not be pretty. No one says it had to be "fair."

Part of being a Christian is being able to give up your life for your faith. Too many of us have forgot that.


"Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends"
 
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JeffreyLloyd

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+^Gothic_Dreams^+ said:
no i haven't read CS Lewis Mere Christianity. is it any Good? and whats it about?

Here is a review of the book from amazon:

C.S. Lewis was a rare individual. One of the few non-clerics to be recognised as a theologian by the Anglican church, he put forth the case for Christianity in general in ways that many Christians beyond the Anglican world can accept, and a clear description for non-Christians of what Christian faith and practice should be. Indeed, Lewis says in his introduction that this text (or indeed, hardly any other he produced) will help in deciding between Christian denominations. While he describes himself as a 'very ordinary layman' in the Church of England, he looks to the broader picture of Christianity, particularly for those who have little or no background. The discussion of division points rarely wins a convert, Lewis observed, and so he leaves the issues of ecclesiology and high theology differences to 'experts'. Lewis is of course selling himself short in this regard, but it helps to reinforce his point.

The book looks at beliefs, both from a 'natural' standpoint as well as a scripture/tradition/reason standpoint. Lewis looks both at belief and unbelief - for example, he states that Christians do not have to see other religions of the world as thoroughly wrong; on the other hand, to be an atheist requires (in Lewis' estimation) that one view religions, all religions, as founded on a mistake. Lewis probably surprised his listeners by starting a statement, 'When I was an atheist...' Lewis is a late-comer to Christianity (most Anglicans in England were cradle-Anglicans). Thus Lewis can speak with the authority of one having deliberately chosen and found Christianity, rather than one who by accident of birth never knew any other (although the case can be made that Lewis was certainly raised in a culture dominated by Christendom).

Lewis also looks at practice - here we are not talking about liturgical niceties or even general church-y practices, but rather the broad strokes of Christian practice - issues of morality, forgiveness, charity, hope and faith. Faith actually has two chapters - one in the more common use of system of belief, but the other in a more subtle, spiritual way. Lewis states in the second chapter that should readers get lost, they should just skip the chapter - while many parts of Christianity will be accessible and intelligible to non-Christians, some things cannot be understood from the outside. This is the 'leave it to God' sense of faith, that is in many ways more of a gift or grace from God than a skill to be developed.

Finally, Lewis looks at personality, not just in the sense of our individual personality, but our status as persons and of God's own personality. Lewis' conclusion that there is no true personality apart from God's is somewhat disquieting; Lewis contrasts Christianity with itself in saying that it is both easy and hard at the same time. Lewis looks for the 'new man' to be a creature in complete submission and abandonment to God. This is a turn both easy and difficult.

'Mere Christianity' was originally a series of radio talks, published as three separate books - 'The Case for Christianity', 'Christian Behaviour', and 'Beyond Personality'. This book brings together all three texts. Lewis' style is witty and engaging, the kind of writing that indeed lives to be read aloud. Lewis debates whether or not it was a good idea to leave the oral-language aspects in the written text (given that the tools for emphasis in written language are different); I think the correct choice was made.


The book is a MUST read for anyone who has questions about the Christian faith. You can buy it on half.com for 2 bucks : http://half.ebay.com/cat/buy/prod.cgi?cpid=2952196&domain_id=1856&meta_id=1

Or just visit your local library, I'm sure they would have it.

If you still can't get a hold of a copy, I have a few extra, I'd be more then happy to mail you one for free :)
 
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Rafael

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+^Gothic_Dreams^+ said:
i'll try to make this Clearer

i mean why do Christians have to be involved in the End Times. when like the Anti Christ comes and all the Locus and everything that it mentions in Revelations about the End Times. Why do Christians that are still alive in the World when the End Times start have to Grow through all that? Doesn't that seem alittle bit unfair?
God envolves us in all things because we are the apple of His eye and He loves His creation. Because mankind fell into sin and death by one man's choice, Adam, God sent His Son, Jesus, to redeem or buy us back from death. This is a great measure of love, and is the biggest thing another can do to show love. Why would He not then envolve us in all things? Those Saints who have died before His return go to Him and will be revealed and ride back with Him on white horses. Pretty cool - huh?
Him wanting us envolved is why we pray and learn the things that are of the Spirit - fighting the spiritual battle against the enemies of God and ourselves.

Psalms 17:8 Keep me as the apple of the eye, hide me under the shadow of thy wings,

Romans 5:19 For as by one man‘s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Colossians 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
 
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+^Gothic_Dreams^+

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Thanks everybody thats replyed back to my Topic. it's refreshing and comforting to know that you guys are able to help people out. when need be. :D ;) and thanks to everybody also that shed some Light for me about the End Times. i'm just kinda foggy about the whole bible and what not since i have been and still am slipping in my faith.
 
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Serapha

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+^Gothic_Dreams^+ said:
if Jesus is supposed to take all the Christians and believers in Him. up to Heaven anyways. Then why do the Christians have to be involved in the End Times still? meaning the Christians that are still alive on this Earth when the End Times began to take form. Why do they have to be involved in it at all? Does that seem fair?


i'm just wondering about this.
Hi there!

:wave:

Christians are trying to reach as many souls as they can before the end times come and the tribulations begin.


The Word of God says that we (believers) will be spared the wrath of God, meaning we will be taken out of the world before the tribulations begin.



~serapha~
 
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JeffreyLloyd

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+^Gothic_Dreams^+

Just to be clear, as you can see from the posts here Christians disagree on the "end times"

Christians agree that there will be a Tribulation at the "end times." Some people believe Christians will be speared the Tribulation to come and taken to heaven before hand. While others believe that is not the case, and Christians will have to survive it just like everyone else.

Postmillennialism

This view was popular with nineteenth-century Protestants, when progress was expected even in religion and before twentieth-century horrors were tasted. Today groups of Christian who hold to it are Reconstructionists, an outgrowth of the conservative Presbyterian movement.

Commentators point out that postmillennialism is to be distinguished from the view of theological and secular liberals who envision social betterment and even the kingdom of God coming through purely natural, rather than supernatural, means. Postmillennialists, however, argue that man is incapable of building a paradise for himself; paradise will only come about by God’s grace.

Postmillennialists also typically say that the millennium spoken of in Revelation 20 should be understood figuratively and that the phrase "a thousand years" refers not to a fixed period of ten centuries, but to an indefinitely long time. For example, Psalm 50:10 speaks of God’s sovereignty over all that is and tells us that God owns "the cattle on a thousand hills." This is not meant to be taken literally.

At the millennium’s end will come the Second Coming, the general resurrection of the dead, and the last judgment.

Amillennialism

The amillennial view interprets Revelation 20 symbolically and sees the millennium not as an earthly golden age in which the world will be totally Christianized, but as the present period of Christ’s rule in heaven and on the earth through his Church. This was the view of the Protestant Reformers and is still the most common view among traditional Protestants, though not among most of the newer Evangelical and Fundamentalist groups.

Amillennialists also believe in the coexistence of good and evil on earth until the end. The tension that exists on earth between the righteous and the wicked will be resolved only by Christ’s return at the end of time. The golden age of the millennium is instead the heavenly reign of Christ with the saints, in which the Church on earth participates to some degree, though not in the glorious way it will at the Second Coming.

Amillennialists point out that the thrones of the saints who reign with Christ during the millennium appear to be set in heaven (Rev. 20:4; cf. 4:4, 11:16) and that the text nowhere states that Christ is on earth during this reign with the saints.

They explain that, although the world will never be fully Christianized until the Second Coming, the millennium does have effects on earth in that Satan is bound in such a way that he cannot deceive the nations by hindering the preaching of the gospel (Rev. 20:3). They point out that Jesus spoke of the necessity of "binding the strong man" (Satan) in order to plunder his house by rescuing people from his grip (Matt. 12:29). When the disciples returned from a tour of preaching the gospel, rejoicing at how demons were subject to them, Jesus declared, "I saw Satan fall like lightning" (Luke 10:18). Thus for the gospel to move forward at all in the world, it is necessary for Satan to be bound in one sense, even if he may still be active in attacking individuals (1 Pet. 5:8).

The millennium is a golden age not when compared to the glories of the age to come, but in comparison to all prior ages of human history, in which the world was swallowed in pagan darkness. Today, a third of the human race is Christian and even more than that have repudiated pagan idols and embraced the worship of the God of Abraham.

Premillennialism

Third on the list is premillennialism, currently the most popular among Fundamentalists and Evangelicals (though a century ago amillennialism was). Most of the books written about the End Times, such as Hal Lindsey’s Late Great Planet Earth, are written from a premillennial perspective.

Like postmillennialists, premillennialists believe that the thousand years is an earthly golden age during which the world will be thoroughly Christianized. Unlike postmillennialists, they believe that it will occur after the Second Coming rather than before, so that Christ reigns physically on earth during the millennium. They believe that the Final Judgment will occur only after the millennium is over (which many interpret to be an exactly one thousand year period).


:)
 
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Tenorvoice

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I personally am a Pre-Trib beliver and I belive that the Church (Christians) will be spared of the Tribulation that is to come because of some of the promises that GOd made in His word to us.


To my understanding the only people left here on earth will be the unbelivers after the Rapture.

The only ones saved durring the Tribulation are the 144,000 Jews and anyone born AFTER the Rapture of the Church. Everyone else will not make it into Heaven.

I would suggest the book "Unveiling the End Times in our Time" By Dr. Rodgers. very insightful to the end times.

Peace
 
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