Christians and Firearms

[ByTheSpirit]

Not a trick question, I'm legitimately curious what responses I'll receive to this. I just read about the church shooting in California. Someone cited in the article said their church is one of the largest in the country and they have many parishioners who carry firearms in service along with police presence. Got me thinking.

Do you think Christians should own and/or carry firearms?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I voted other, it depends on the region and how their public education/media propaganda has affected the hearts and minds of the people.

 

[Occams Barber]

Not a trick question, I'm legitimately curious what responses I'll receive to this. I just read about the church shooting in California. Someone cited in the article said their church is one of the largest in the country and they have many parishioners who carry firearms in service along with police presence. Got me thinking.

Do you think Christians should own and/or carry firearms?

It looks like there are missing full stops (periods) in Options 3 and 4 which reverse what I think you're trying to say; e.g

No Christians should use public services (police) for protection
vs
No. Christians should use public services (police) for protection​

and

No Christians should trust entirely upon God for their protection
vs
No. Christians should trust entirely upon God for their protection
​

OB

 

[Neogaia777]

I live in a pretty heavily wooded area, large forest wildereness areas in every direction not that far away, and grew up with guns and hunting, and fishing, and the outdoors and the like, etc, it's just part of where I am from, etc, and live, etc, and I think they are a very valuable asset/tool in the right hands, and a very risky and potentially dangerous weapon in the wrong ones, etc...

I do also keep some for if I ever have to survive that way permanently for a while as well however, and I'm not quite sure if God will call me to ever have to do that one day or not, etc, and in a situation like that, if you ever are faced with a situation where you feel you might have to use them against people, etc, I think it's also very important to know or always remember or keep in mind as well, that you might have to die that way possibly as well, if you do, or you ever have to, etc, but, hopefully it will just be for hunting and procurement of food, if it ever comes to that, etc, or God could just take me out of here, which would be preferable, etc, but I do like to have all my bases covered however, just in case, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Occams Barber]

Do you think Christians should own and/or carry firearms?

In my country nobody carries firearms for self defence and the overwhelming majority (94%), including Christians, are opposed to allowing gun ownership for self defence. This attitude seems to prevail in most western countries apart from the US.

Gun ownership for self defence appears to be an issue specific to the US.

OB

 

[Paulos23]

I voted other.

I feel they need training for caring a gun. Situation awareness training and safety training.

 

[jacks]

In my country nobody carries firearms for self defence and the overwhelming majority (94%), including Christians, are opposed to allowing gun ownership for self defence. This attitude seems to prevail in most western countries apart from the US.

Gun ownership for self defence appears to be an issue specific to the US
OB

Yes, that's interesting. If nobody else owned a gun, we may not feel the need for them, at least from a self-defense standpoint. But at this point the cat is out of the bag sort of speak. It is like driving. I would be happy to drive a small car if everyone else did, but since I'm constantly having to dodge large trucks and SUVs I basically drive a larger car for protection. In the U.S. if you are unarmed you are at a defensive disadvantage. Like the joke; bringing a knife to a gun fight. And of course laws that prohibit gun ownership only worsens the situation. The law abiding don't have guns and the criminals still do.

 

[Der Alte]

Should Christians own and carry firearms?
Yes. Owning is fine no buts.
Yes. Owning and carrying are both ok
New Years eve a few years ago. I was in my bedroom getting ready for a midnight service. I heard bam, bam, bam, ten times in front of my house. Having served two tours in Viet Nam, as a helicopter pilot, having been shot at numerous times and shot down and injured one time I am very familiar with the sound of gun fire. Although there were fireworks going off I knew I heard gun fire very close to the front of my house. I crouched down, to avoid getting shot, and snuck up to a window. I cautiously looked out but did not see anything, My first thought was "Maybe I made a mistake." Believing in my gut I didn't. I continued to get ready for church. Several minutes later when I started out I saw my street taped off with yellow police tape. Two doors down at the corner four police cars with emergency lights flashing. Two or three police officers with flashlights apparently looking for expended cartridges in the street. I was told to go back in my house. A bit later we were allowed to leave.
A few days later I learned that some criminal fired 10 shots from a 9mm pistol into the house across the street, the home of a retired army sergeant major. The shooter was actually looking for the house to the right of the house that was hit. One bullet richocheted off of something and hit the house next door. The shooter shot at the wrong house because he was looking for a certain vehicle and one like that was parked in front of the house that was hit.
I owned my first gun in 1954. I don't know what happened to it after I joined the Army in '56. I have one gun I have owned since '59, one since '66 and two since about 5-6 years ago. In Viet Nam when the Viet Cong entered a town or village they assassinated the leaders. I have no intention of giving up my guns under any circumstances.
I don't live in a run down area. My neighborhood consists of houses in the $190-$300k range.
And OBTW none of the guns I own ever ever got up and went on a killing spree. I don't understand it. Maybe they are malfunctioning? It's the guns fault isn't it?

 

[Occams Barber]

Yes, that's interesting. If nobody else owned a gun, we may not feel the need for them, at least from a self-defense standpoint. But at this point the cat is out of the bag sort of speak. It is like driving. I would be happy to drive a small car if everyone else did, but since I'm constantly having to dodge large trucks and SUVs I basically drive a larger car for protection. In the U.S. if you are unarmed you are at a defensive disadvantage. Like the joke; bringing a knife to a gun fight. And of course laws that prohibit gun ownership only worsens the situation. The law abiding don't have guns and the criminals still do.

I agree - in the US, the gun control cat is well and truly out of the bag. Gun proliferation has created a demand for more guns which results in more guns which results in more demand for guns...

Luckily we got in early enough to remove guns before things went too far. Our gun crime is pretty much limited to the odd fight between crime gangs. Most of us have never seen a handgun and never wish to.

It shows that if you start off from the premise that guns are unnecessary for self defence, then guns become unnecessary for self defence.

OB

 

[Neogaia777]

What about if it all falls apart and you are forced to survive?

Not too many people think about that, but it could very easily happen anywhere and at any time, if you ask me...

Americans also have them in case their very own government becomes an enemy in situations like that as well, or command and control breaks down, and individual pockets of soldiers turn mercenary and form their very own armies in areas, and start doing whatever they like, because they have all the guns and equipment, and an armed people allows them to protect their own pockets from that, etc...

I don't carry where I live, because I don't feel like I have to, pretty much safe here even though almost everybody and their brother here has and owns guns, etc, but I do have certain guns that are designed for self-defense still, but that is mainly only for a severe survival situation where I live, etc, and it would have to be or get "pretty bad", etc...

Americans like to be or feel independent as well, just part of who we are, and gun ownership is a part of that, it's even in our constitution that if our own government ever becomes severely oppressive, or starts making unnecessary and unreasonable demands upon it's people, that we are to rise up, and violently replace it and/or overthrow it if necessary, due to our forefathers knowing that could always happen anywhere, due to coming from a place where a kingdom or government like that over them became like that, etc...

Anyway, all kinds of reasons, etc...

An invading foreign army also, when and where our own army just wasn't/isn't enough also, etc...

Anyway, Americans consider and think about situations like these, etc, or at least the smart ones do, and want their own guns because of it, etc, and I don't think there is anything at all wrong with that, etc...

We are not designed to get or grow too complacent from any potential threats, or possibilities that could happen, or get too overly comfortable, etc...

We know that peace and prosperity is absolutely priceless, but is also very, very fragile, etc...

And that if it ever does break down, comes at a very, very high price in order to restore it back to the way it was again, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Der Alte]

In my country nobody carries firearms for self defence and the overwhelming majority (94%), including Christians, are opposed to allowing gun ownership for self defence. This attitude seems to prevail in most western countries apart from the US.
Gun ownership for self defence appears to be an issue specific to the US.
OB

A major critical difference exists between our 2 countries, I think I am safe in saying, your borders are not wide open as our southern border is and any category of prohibited material such as fully automatic weapons and ammunition and illegal and poisonous drugs can be brought in almost at will. Within the past several months one of my second cousins died from Fentanyl. The only solution to the gun and drug problems the party in power can think of is more restrictive laws. As if criminal elements are going to obey more laws.

 

[Occams Barber]

What about if it all falls apart and you are forced to survive?

God Bless!

Firstly I see no reason to believe it's all about to fall apart. I'd hate to have to live my life in fear like the sad souls on the Prepper forum.

Secondly - if it does fall apart, there won't be any guns to defend ourselves with, but neither will there be any guns to attack us with. Perhaps we'll just have to cooperate with each other.

OB

 

[Der Alte]

I agree - in the US, the gun control cat is well and truly out of the bag. Gun proliferation has created a demand for more guns which results in more guns which results in more demand for guns...
Luckily we got in early enough to remove guns before things went too far. Our gun crime is pretty much limited to the odd fight between crime gangs. Most of us have never seen a handgun and never wish to.
It shows that if you start off from the premise that guns are unnecessary for self defence, then guns become unnecessary for self defence.
OB

I just did a quick online check. Between 1996 and 2013 homicides in Australia decreased by 81.

 

[Occams Barber]

A major critical difference exists between our 2 countries, I think I am safe in saying, your borders are not wide open as our southern border is and any category of prohibited material such as fully automatic weapons and ammunition and illegal and poisonous drugs can be brought in almost at will. Within the past several months one of my second cousins died from Fentanyl. The only solution to the gun and drug problems the party in power can think of is more restrictive laws. As if criminal elements are going to obey more laws.

We could argue that a country like Australia which sits within a short canoe ride of South East Asia (to the north), has thousands of kilometres of unmonitored coastline and is therefore susceptible to gun or drug imports, but that would ignore the point. I could also argue that western Europe has completely open borders but lacks the drug/gun problem prevalent in the US. The problem seems to be one of demand - not supply.

In 1996, after a couple of mass shootings, Australia took a positive decision to do something. Without that decision it's highly likely we'd be in the same state as the US, scaled down for a smaller population. The thing is that we made that decision for the public good instead focusing on individual rights.

It turns out to be the right decision if you accept that society as a whole also has rights.

OB

 

[Benam]

Absolutely nothing wrong with Christians owning firearms. I'm up to seven so far and will definitely add to that over time. But I'm in Canada, where defending yourself with any weapon will often land you more jail time than the robber/home invader/rapist/whatever you're defending against. My reasons for owning firearms are for hunting and sport. Shooting trap/skeet/sporting clays is a lot of fun. As is .22 silhouette. Haven't tried 3 gun or cowboy action or many of the other shooting sports there are, but plan to.

 

[Neogaia777]

@Occams Barber

Live in naivity if you like, but peace in this world really does only come from superior strength or firepower, or at least the overwhelming threat of it, etc...

Keeps the rest of the world in check, until it doesn't, etc...

And a lot of Americans are at least realists about that, or at least we used to be, etc...

How big is your army in Australia...?

Because I'm betting it's not big enough for what could be coming, or might happen in the world, etc...

And then who will you be crying to then...?

Oh yeah, that's right, people who birthed your original ideals, like people in America and Americans, etc...

God Bless America!

 

[Occams Barber]

I just did a quick online check. Between 1996 and 2013 homicides in Australia decreased by 81.

What's your point?
(be careful - there are homicides (all causes), gun homicides and gun deaths). There are also death numbers and death rates)

In 1996 Australia had 516 gun deaths. The removal of guns, and legislation banning most firearms took place over 1997/98/99 as each state implemented strict gun control.

By 1998 gun deaths had dropped to 312. In 2019 there were 229 gun deaths.

Australia – Total Number of Gun Deaths (gunpolicy.org)

In 1996 Australia had 104 gun homicides. By 2019 this had dropped to 34 while the population increased by nearly 50%.
Guns in Australia — Firearms, gun law and gun control (gunpolicy.org)

OB

 

[Neogaia777]

@Occams Barber

Live in naivity if you like, but peace in this world really does only come from superior strength or firepower, or at least the overwhelming threat of it, etc...

Keeps the rest of the world in check, until it doesn't, etc...

And a lot of Americans are at least realists about that, or at least we used to be, etc...

How big is your army in Australia...?

Because I'm betting it's not big enough for what could be coming, or might happen in the world, etc...

And then who will you be crying to then...?

Oh yeah, that's right, people who birthed your original ideals, like people in America and Americans, etc...

God Bless America!

That's if America is still standing that is...

Because you already see what other nations are already starting to do now now now that theyare seeing America as "weak" right now, etc...

And you don't think that will spread, etc...?

And that some other countries will be pretty easy pickings after the larger ones have battled it out, and maybe another one has come out on top, or proved itself more superior, etc...?

But I guess ignorance truly is bliss I guess, etc...

Enjoy it while it lasts I guess...

God Bless!

 

[Occams Barber]

That's if America is still standing that is...

Because you already see what other nations are already starting to do now now now that theyare seeing America as "weak" right now, etc...

And you don't think that will spread, etc...?

And that some other countries will be pretty easy pickings after the larger ones have battled it out, and maybe another one has come out on top, or proved itself more superior, etc...?

But I guess ignorance truly is bliss I guess, etc...

Enjoy it while it lasts I guess...

God Bless!

@Neogaia777

This argument is just plain silly.

A few Australians walking around with handguns is not going to make a lick of difference if China (or anyone else) starts a war.

The issue is about using guns as self defence in a domestic context. Put simply - from our point of view gun proliferation is a greater risk to the population than gun minimisation. As well as gun homicides this includes things like gun suicides and gun accidents. The existence of guns as a force multiplier also tends to increase the rate of violent, gun related, crime.

Overall - for us - less guns is safer than more guns.

Within Australia we have no need of guns for self defence.

OB

 

[SkyWriting]

I live in a pretty heavily wooded area, large forest wildereness areas in every direction not that far away, and grew up with guns and hunting, and fishing, and the outdoors and the like, etc, it's just part of where I am from, etc, and live, etc, and I think they are a very valuable asset/tool in the right hands, and a very risky and potentially dangerous weapon in the wrong ones, etc...

I do also keep some for if I ever have to survive that way permanently for a while as well however, and I'm not quite sure if God will call me to ever have to do that one day or not, etc, and in a situation like that, if you ever are faced with a situation where you feel you might have to use them against people, etc, I think it's also very important to know or always remember or keep in mind as well, that you might have to die that way possibly as well, if you do, or you ever have to, etc, but, hopefully it will just be for hunting and procurement of food, if it ever comes to that, etc, or God could just take me out of here, which would be preferable, etc, but I do like to have all my bases covered however, just in case, etc...

God Bless!

For Zombies and/or other apocalyptic events.