Christians and Education

[Stephen3141]

More states are ditching exams as high school graduation requirements

When Massachusetts voters decided to ditch the state’s high school graduation exams on Election Day, they joined a growing trend that has steadily chipped away at the use of high-stakes tests for the past two decades

abcnews.go.com

This article deals with states that are stuggling with the topic of making
passing a high school evaluation test, as a REQUIREMENT for getting
a high school diploma.

There are a number of arguments (explicit, or implicit) involved...

-- do standardized evaluation tests test job skill and employability
-- should they?
-- what does a high school diploma mean?
-- what should it mean?
-- if a high school students cannot pass the final evaluation test,
does that mean that they are unemployable?

But, there are a number of implicit topics that Christians should
considering...

-- If a high school diploma does NOT reflect basic knowledge in a number
of core knowledge areas, why should an employer respect it at all?
-- If a high school diploma has no connection to basic reasoning skills,
then how is an employer to evaluate the basic reasoning skills of
applicants for a job?
-- Are employers now supposed to make up their own "employability"
tests, for job applicants? If they are forced to do this, then how is
anyone to have the protection of law, from ignorant or strange
"employability" tests?

Notice that it is mostly the Fundamentalist (anti-intellectual) groups
in America, who want to impose "Christian nationalism". But it is the
ANTI-INTELLECTUAL groups in America who are LEAST qualified to
design excellent high school curricula, or evaluation tests for high school
students.
---------- ----------

There is a VISCIOUS cycle that has been rotating for the last 3 generations in
America.

-- Educators who are against standardized tests, move to eliminate them
or make them easier
-- Educators who do this, are popular with many students.
-- The career path of an educator, is often tied to whether or not they
are popular with the students.
-- Degrees are worth less and less, as the difficulty of graduation requirements
continue to go down and down.
-- Students invariably think that they know more than teachers.

In the last 3 generations in America, we have seen the ditching of required
courses in university, and degradation of the value of the degrees of these
schools.

Note that going through this cycle for 3 generations, has lead to the elimination
of many high school requirements, the inability of universities to believe the
usefulness of the high school evaluation tests, and the inability of employers
to trust either high school diplomas.
---------- -----------

NOTE that in all this degrading cycling over the last 3 American generations,
THE DIFFICULTY OF PROBLEMS TO BE SOLVED, IN WELL-PAYING JOBS,
HAS NOT GONE DOWN! IN MANY CASES THE DIFFICULTY OF PROBLEMS TO
BE SOLVED, IS GOING UP.


So, what should Christian parents keep in mind?
Right now, you are generations deep into a DEFECTIVE teaching system.

-- The Christian Nationalists are not going to fix this, as most of them
come from an anti-intellectual subculture, and have already embraced
ridiculous conspiracy theories about (pretty much) everything.
-- Get your kids off social media, or never allow them to hooked on
living "online" to begin with.
-- Send your kids to a school that gives students homework.
-- Get your kids reading!

America has hit the end of the road, following the philosophy that being
popular with students (and their parents), is the best way to hand out a modern
and technical high school or university education.

Unless American parents want their children to only be qualified for unskilled
landscaping work, Christian parents have got to break this awful cycle in
the American high school and university system of curricula and testing.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Stephen, do you believe in a thoroughly secular education devoid of religious, specifically Christian, influence to be a good thing for Christianity?

 

[Aaron112]

NOTE that in all this degrading cycling over the last 3 American generations,
THE DIFFICULTY OF PROBLEMS TO BE SOLVED, IN WELL-PAYING JOBS,
HAS NOT GONE DOWN! IN MANY CASES THE DIFFICULTY OF PROBLEMS TO
BE SOLVED, IS GOING UP.

The same evidentiary cycle in many areas over the last hundred years (and many generations).

The more government tries to take control, the more it gets worse, - education, health, science, history, everything - being controlled has led to worsening of most things in most ways.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

So, what should Christian parents keep in mind?

There seems to be two goals with education, job readiness and moral formation. By moral formation I mean a sense of justice, right and wrong, respect for each other and the law. Both of these goals can and ought to be archived without imposing a religious view.

Or can they. I am reading an article now about moral relativism/ That seems to be what we get if we do not have a standard. Everyone decides for themselves what is wright or wrong. I think that is a good thing, provided that each person has been properly formed in a moral system or theory. The problem now is people decide on their own without any foundation in how to do it. Religion can provides that foundation but then different religions may disagree in important ways. Let's find universal foundations.

 

[Stephen3141]

Stephen, do you believe in a thoroughly secular education devoid of religious, specifically Christian, influence to be a good thing for Christianity?

Would Christians be better off with a thoroughly secular education?
No.

But note that Protestant Fundamentalists, who are inherently anti-intellectual,
ALREADY call many of the topics in a well rounded CHRISTIAN curriculum,
to be merely "secular". As a result, I would reject that many religious schools
that claim to be "Christian", are Christian in a historical way.

So, Christians need to carefully discuss what is "secular", and what is not.

I would say that many in the younger generations -- both Christian and
non-Christian -- have ditched formal logic, and history, and moral theory.
I many ways, it is difficult to distinguish Gen Z people who say they are
Christians, from Gen Z people who say that they are NOT Christians.
Both groups have not (in general) thought carefully about our shared
reality, how human beings perceive this reality, how we must test our
personal perceptions to test whether or not they are TRUE, what real
evidence is, how evidence fits into a fair rule of law, and how a fair rule of
law produces justice.

A number of sources have noted that the younger American generations are
incompetent to intellectually discuss philosophical primitives.
---------- ----------

A good secular education, that discusses core topics about reality and
thinking, is probably better than a religious K12 education by a Fundamentalist
group that is anti-intellectual. But a merely good secular education falls far
short from discussing the historic Christian view of our shared reality, what
thinking is, how we perceive our shared reality, how we test an opinion to see
if it is true, what a fair rule of law is, and what justice is. And a merely secular
education will probably not present the moral-ethical model that Christianity
embraces.

 

[Stephen3141]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/19/us/texas-bluebonnet-curriculum-bible-lessons/index.html

Texas wants teachers to include Bible lessons into their lessons.

Although generic teaching about values and virtues and vices would be
a real improvement in public schools, teaching lessons from specific
religions would run afoul of the separation of church and state.

Find a way to teach the basic virtues and vices from the major
moral-ethical (ME) models through history, and this would be a
HUGE improvement in American public education.

Moral Theory book by Mark Timmons

www.thriftbooks.com

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/19/us/texas-bluebonnet-curriculum-bible-lessons/index.html

Texas wants teachers to include Bible lessons into their lessons.

Although generic teaching about values and virtues and vices would be
a real improvement in public schools, teaching lessons from specific
religions would run afoul of the separation of church and state.

Find a way to teach the basic virtues and vices from the major
moral-ethical (ME) models through history, and this would be a
HUGE improvement in American public education.

Moral Theory book by Mark Timmons

www.thriftbooks.com

We could even emphasize the research proving that people with virtues such as empathy and compassion are healthier in mind and body.
It is no longer a religion but objective findings.

 

[QvQ]

But note that Protestant Fundamentalists, who are inherently anti-intellectual,

This forum is extremely intellectual.
There are discussions about subjects, with all sides presented and roundly debated by Christians, mnay of whom are Protestant Fundamentalist.
It is difficult to find a forum where everything from Modern Money Theory to Augustine and the Roman Empire are debated on a daily basis.
Ethics, free will and evolution are constant topics.

I take extreme exception to the statement "Protestant Fundamentalist who are inherently anti-intellectual."
When this Christian Forum has a large contigent of "Protestant Fundamentalists" I would challenge the person making that claim to provide proof that Protestant Fundamentalist are inherently anti-intellectual.
Where is the proof or the evidence?

 

[Stephen3141]

Separation of church and state? Religion in public schools is being tested by Christian conservatives

Texas education officials approved an optional Bible-based curriculum in elementary schools in the latest attempt to introduce religious materials to public school students.

www.nbcnews.com

Another article about Texas, and educators plans to off an optional religious
education course, that presents the Bible as literature.

As Bonnie Kristian wrote (a writer from Christianity Today), the material in the
Texan course is pretty innocuous. As I responded, it MATTERS who is writing the
presentation of the Bible as literature. If the material is written by Protestant
Fundamentalists, then the presentation probably will not represent historic
Christian groups, and will probably reflect the parochial young-earth
anti-intellectualism of the Fundamentalists. IF this is the case, then the
Texan course will not really represent historic Christianity and doctrine.
---------- ----------

This article brings up some important topics, and suggests (again) other
topics that are not being dealt with, up front.

Note that orthodox Christians should not have a problem with certain aspects
of this religious course...

1 Teaching the Bible as literature, opens up an understanding of American
history, as the language of the King James' translation of the Christian
Scriptures shaped many of the concepts of American history. That is,
the English Bible was used as a reading primmer for generations of
Americans.

2 Pushing this type of course as a part of "freedom of speech", is mindless.
ANYONE could use this argument, and if it is upheld in Aemrican courts,
proponents of ANY ideology could claim the right to present their "religion" in
such a course. (The Christian Nationalists don't seem to recognize the
problems of this sort of argument.)

3 The younger American generations seem to think that "freedom of speech",
involves equal time for all positions on a topic, to be presented. This is a
flawed understanding of freedom of speech, but it is a demand made by many
university students. Those who present the Bible as literature, had better be very
clear (for the younger generations), that presenting the Bible as literature
does not require presenting the religious writings of all other religions as
literature, with equal time. This is a hidden conflict, that the Texan educators
don't seem to be dealing with, openly.
---------- ----------

As I have mentioned (many times), if K12 DOES NOT PRESENT THE BASIC
PHILOSOPHICAL CONCEPTS of Epistemology, formal logic, and moral theory,
(and American K12 curricula almost all do not), then students will not have
the foundation in critical thinking to intelligently take in optional course
material on religious writings, as literature.

My prediction is that the Texan educators will slide off the hill toward
Christian Nationalism, and conspiracy theory versions of the history of
Christianity, and a Fundamentalist presentation of (an English translation)
of the Christian Scriptures. Especially if an ancient English translation
(such as the King James') is used, the vocabulary of the translation will
not connect with modern American kids, and will not be a professional course
in presenting the Bible as literature.