Christianity

[Woldeyesus]

As a religion, is Christianity recognized by Jesus Christ?

 

[wayseer]

As a religion, is Christianity recognized by Jesus Christ?

No.

Back to you.

 

[Woldeyesus]

No.

Back to you.

Why not?

 

[wayseer]

I thought the answer was pretty obvious - there was nothing called Christianity existing at the time of Jesus. Christianity only emerged well into the second century.

But a more interesting issue is that the word 'religion' was not associated with Judaism because of their ethnic base - they were a 'group'; a cultural block - generally one had to be born into Judaism. It was only when Christianity emerged, not as an ethnic group, but as something else that the word 'religion' was adopted to describe what Christianity was as opposed to Judaism. Christianity and Judaism were different in that they were different religions.

Jesus had no desire to start something called a 'religion'. Nor was he interested in starting another sect like the Essenes or the Pharisees.

 

[Woldeyesus]

I thought the answer was pretty obvious - there was nothing called Christianity existing at the time of Jesus. Christianity only emerged well into the second century.

But a more interesting issue is that the word 'religion' was not associated with Judaism because of their ethnic base - they were a 'group'; a cultural block - generally one had to be born into Judaism. It was only when Christianity emerged, not as an ethnic group, but as something else that the word 'religion' was adopted to describe what Christianity was as opposed to Judaism. Christianity and Judaism were different in that they were different religions.

Jesus had no desire to start something called a 'religion'. Nor was he interested in starting another sect like the Essenes or the Pharisees.

It is clear now. Many, many thanks!

 

[wayseer]

Thank you - but I would encourage to do you own research. I would image any number of others would not necessarily agree with me.

 

[ebia]

As a religion, is Christianity recognized by Jesus Christ?

What do you mean by "Christianity" exactly - and recognized by Jesus, for that matter. Jesus founded a movement, a community, a redefined Israel, but that community could - necessarily - only take its own shape (and the name Christians) once he ascended and sent the Spirit.

 

[Woldeyesus]

What do you mean by "Christianity" exactly - and recognized by Jesus, for that matter. Jesus founded a movement, a community, a redefined Israel, but that community could - necessarily - only take its own shape (and the name Christians) once he ascended and sent the Spirit.

I beg to differ. Jesus did not found any movement whatsoever. What Jesus did was to globalize the scope of firsthand knowledge of God as basis for one faith and a completely new order of worship ("a new and living way") free of place and time (John 4: 21-26; Heb. 10: 19-25).

Later Christians (pagans of course), by sheer strength in number, poured the novelty of Jesus' teaching into the used wineskin of religion seriously corrupting the order of cause and effect. For example, both the nature and dating of Christ's ascension and outpouring of the Spirit have radically changed from events specific and inherent to Christ's glory in his defining moment at his death on the cross (John 6: 62-64; 8: 21-28; 16: 5-15) to 50 days after the event, otherwise, the first large-scale application of the power of Christ's resurrection or self-revelation on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2).

Fortunately, the Scriptures are intact for recovering the facts of the gospel.

 

[ebia]

He encouraged a community to form around him, he gave that community symbols, practices and concepts of identity and gave them ways to live and goals to accomplish. If that can't be described as founding a movement I don't know what could.


I know it's fashionable to devise an anti-institutional "theory" and then reconstruct 'what really happened' in a way that (conveniently) fits ones theory, but unfortunately there are more such different "theorys" out there and no way of substantiating any of them, and curiously, they all end up with something a lot less challenging and less historically plausible than the "traditional" reading.

 

[Woldeyesus]

He encouraged a community to form around him, he gave that community symbols, practices and concepts of identity and gave them ways to live and goals to accomplish. If that can't be described as founding a movement I don't know what could.


I know it's fashionable to devise an anti-institutional "theory" and then reconstruct 'what really happened' in a way that (conveniently) fits ones theory, but unfortunately there are more such different "theorys" out there and no way of substantiating any of them, and curiously, they all end up with something a lot less challenging and less historically plausible than the "traditional" reading.

The Bible makes a very strong and meaningful case for the gospel of Jesus Christ as a consummation of God's act of Creation hijacked by Christianity as a founding of a new movement. In Christ, there is room for personal faith but not religion.

 

[ebia]

The Bible makes a very strong and meaningful case for the gospel of Jesus Christ as a consummation of God's act of Creation hijacked by Christianity as a founding of a new movement. In Christ, there is room for personal faith but not religion.

You need to say it once more for Lewis Carroll to apply. Alternatively you need to engage with the responses and make an argument.

 

[Woldeyesus]

Thank you - but I would encourage to do you own research. I would image any number of others would not necessarily agree with me.

The discussion is now on. I hope it will garner more ideas.

 

[patience7]

Definition of Christianity: religion that follows the teachings of Jesus Christ, holding of christian beliefs, christians as a group, state of fact of being a christian

Acts 11:26 . . . And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch

Later Christians (pagans of course), by sheer strength in number, poured the novelty of Jesus' teaching into the used wineskin of religion seriously corrupting the order of cause and effect.

The disciples were pagans??????

 

[papaJP]

I thought the answer was pretty obvious - there was nothing called Christianity existing at the time of Jesus. Christianity only emerged well into the second century.

But a more interesting issue is that the word 'religion' was not associated with Judaism because of their ethnic base - they were a 'group'; a cultural block - generally one had to be born into Judaism. It was only when Christianity emerged, not as an ethnic group, but as something else that the word 'religion' was adopted to describe what Christianity was as opposed to Judaism. Christianity and Judaism were different in that they were different religions.

Jesus had no desire to start something called a 'religion'. Nor was he interested in starting another sect like the Essenes or the Pharisees.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Good Post

Christianity came into being because man needed a word to describe why he worshiped The Savior. The use of Christ to describe him came into being in the greek congregations because the Hebrews could not accept the Savior as God.
They are still looking for Him to come. Yes Christianity was a sect of the Hebrew faith in the beginning. The use of religion is fraught with so many misconceptions that I do not like to use it.

What we need to remember (though) is we must not turn our back on the Chosen People of God and we should join them in fulfilling the prophetic need for their coming to Jesus as the Christ (Savior) God. They will as with most of the rest of the creation come to truth as a small group out of the many millions. Only a few of both Hebrews and Gentiles will walk through the narrow door up the straight path to God.

 

[Hairy Tic]

I beg to differ. Jesus did not found any movement whatsoever. What Jesus did was to globalize the scope of firsthand knowledge of God as basis for one faith and a completely new order of worship ("a new and living way") free of place and time (John 4: 21-26; Heb. 10: 19-25).

Later Christians (pagans of course), by sheer strength in number, poured the novelty of Jesus' teaching into the used wineskin of religion seriously corrupting the order of cause and effect. For example, both the nature and dating of Christ's ascension and outpouring of the Spirit have radically changed from events specific and inherent to Christ's glory in his defining moment at his death on the cross (John 6: 62-64; 8: 21-28; 16: 5-15) to 50 days after the event, otherwise, the first large-scale application of the power of Christ's resurrection or self-revelation on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2).

Fortunately, the Scriptures are intact for recovering the facts of the gospel.

## Here we go, again ...stand by for:

• "Christianity is not a religion - it's a relationship"
  
• "It's the all the fault of the Catholic Church"
• "Constantine ate my homework"
• "The Pope is an occultist"
  
• "The Catholic Church is pagan"
• "Christianity is apostate"
• "Jesus is really called Zeus"
• "The 12 Tribes are the people of Britain & the US"
  
• "God hates Christmas - see Jeremiah 10"
• "Jesus is Osiris/Mithra/Julius Caesar/a gay alien labrador from Venus"
• "God hates Christians" [OK, I made that one up - but it's less loopy than the others]

As though the Scriptures (which are not intact, sorry) could not have been falsified by the Church - it had plenty of time, and (allegedly), more than enough motive. I knew there were restorationists (no two of whom agree, except in trashing what's already on offer); I did not know there were restorationists who denied flat out there was anything to restore. Oh well, that's another for the menagerie of monsters that is US Fundamentalist Protestantism.

 

[Woldeyesus]

I thought the answer was pretty obvious - there was nothing called Christianity existing at the time of Jesus. Christianity only emerged well into the second century.

But a more interesting issue is that the word 'religion' was not associated with Judaism because of their ethnic base - they were a 'group'; a cultural block - generally one had to be born into Judaism. It was only when Christianity emerged, not as an ethnic group, but as something else that the word 'religion' was adopted to describe what Christianity was as opposed to Judaism. Christianity and Judaism were different in that they were different religions.

Jesus had no desire to start something called a 'religion'. Nor was he interested in starting another sect like the Essenes or the Pharisees.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Good Post

Christianity came into being because man needed a word to describe why he worshiped The Savior. The use of Christ to describe him came into being in the greek congregations because the Hebrews could not accept the Savior as God.
They are still looking for Him to come. Yes Christianity was a sect of the Hebrew faith in the beginning. The use of religion is fraught with so many misconceptions that I do not like to use it.

What we need to remember (though) is we must not turn our back on the Chosen People of God and we should join them in fulfilling the prophetic need for their coming to Jesus as the Christ (Savior) God. They will as with most of the rest of the creation come to truth as a small group out of the many millions. Only a few of both Hebrews and Gentiles will walk through the narrow door up the straight path to God.

Christianity is a contradiction to the timely, free and individual worship of a universally knowable Christ in his DEFINING MOMENT, as he really is, viz.: "life-giving Spirit", at the "tree of life", i.e., the cross! (John 4: 21-26)

 

[papaJP]

## Here we go, again

...stand by for:

• "Christianity is not a religion - it's a relationship"
  
• "It's the all the fault of the Catholic Church"
• "Constantine ate my homework"
• "The Pope is an occultist"
  
• "The Catholic Church is pagan"
• "Christianity is apostate"
• "Jesus is really called Zeus"
• "The 12 Tribes are the people of Britain & the US"
  
• "God hates Christmas - see Jeremiah 10"
• "Jesus is Osiris/Mithra/Julius Caesar/a gay alien labrador from Venus"
• "God hates Christians" [OK, I made that one up - but it's less loopy than the others]

As though the Scriptures (which are not intact, sorry) could not have been falsified by the Church - it had plenty of time, and (allegedly), more than enough motive. I knew there were restorationists (no two of whom agree, except in trashing what's already on offer); I did not know there were restorationists who denied flat out there was anything to restore. Oh well, that's another for the menagerie of monsters that is US Fundamentalist Protestantism.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

What is this supposed to prove or be about.
Are you trying to be funny or is this what you believe?

 

[wayseer]

I thought the answer was pretty obvious - there was nothing called Christianity existing at the time of Jesus. Christianity only emerged well into the second century.

But a more interesting issue is that the word 'religion' was not associated with Judaism because of their ethnic base - they were a 'group'; a cultural block - generally one had to be born into Judaism. It was only when Christianity emerged, not as an ethnic group, but as something else that the word 'religion' was adopted to describe what Christianity was as opposed to Judaism. Christianity and Judaism were different in that they were different religions.

Jesus had no desire to start something called a 'religion'. Nor was he interested in starting another sect like the Essenes or the Pharisees.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Good Post

Christianity came into being because man needed a word to describe why he worshiped The Savior. The use of Christ to describe him came into being in the greek congregations because the Hebrews could not accept the Savior as God.
They are still looking for Him to come. Yes Christianity was a sect of the Hebrew faith in the beginning. The use of religion is fraught with so many misconceptions that I do not like to use it.

What we need to remember (though) is we must not turn our back on the Chosen People of God and we should join them in fulfilling the prophetic need for their coming to Jesus as the Christ (Savior) God. They will as with most of the rest of the creation come to truth as a small group out of the many millions. Only a few of both Hebrews and Gentiles will walk through the narrow door up the straight path to God.

Please learn how to quote properly. It is very simple and saves lots of time and confusion and also ensures you acknowledge the author of the post you are quoting which you have not done so here.

You can hit the QUOTE button on the bottom right of the relative post you which to quote - or, if needs be, you can do a cut and paste using the quote/unquote formulae surrounded by square brackets. (I cannot demonstrate). For a better idea of what I'm talking about hover over the fifth icon from the right of the rows of icons above the text area when you are in 'response' mode and you will get the idea.

A little time spent in learning the correct procedure will save confusion all round.

 

[wayseer]

Christianity is a contradiction to the timely, free and individual worship of a universally knowable Christ in his DEFINING MOMENT, as he really is, viz.: "life-giving Spirit", at the "tree of life", i.e., the cross! (John 4: 21-26)

I think I know what you might mean.

I love brevity but I think your theology here needs a little expansion. Care to elaborate?

 

[barryrob]

As a religion, is Christianity recognized by Jesus Christ?

True Christianity is but false Christianlty is not!

Matthew 7:15-23
"Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16　By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17　Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; 18　a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19　Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. 20　Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men]. 21　"Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22　Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23　And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness. ​