Christianity without Paul

antletems said:

If it wasn't paul it would have been someone else in time though

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antletems said:

How much of Christianity is Paul? Is the faith as we know it made up mostly of Paul and his teachings?

Where would we be without Paul?

I have wondered about Paul. He does seem to take up a large part of the NT in his writings etc. Did he have his own agenda? Was his teachings very different from those of Jesus?

I ask these questions because i am curious to know if others have asked these questions and what answers people give. I for one are very much inexperienced in Biblical matters but i am trying to learn more and more as time goes on.

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98cwitr said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_Christianity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_privilege


Without Pauline theology, I think we would view OT Law very differently than we do today. I also think we wouldn't have such an issue with women in ministry. It's not that Paul's teachings are the problem, but our interpretations of them are.

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Soyeong said:

In 2 Timothy 3:15 Paul talks about the Scriptures that were available to Timothy from childhood, at which point the NT has not yet been written, which is not to say that the NT isn't inspired, just that Paul was only speaking about OT Scriptures in those verses.

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JackRT said:

I seriously wonder if Christianity would have survived at all without Paul. If it did, it would have been as a Judaic cult and would be virtually unrecognizable to Christians today.

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Steeno7 said:

Pauls teachings are the teachings of Jesus. Galatians 1:12

And since the Pauline scriptures comprise the majority of the doctrinal books, Christianity would in sad shape without them.

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JackRT said:

I do wonder about that. Paul seems to know little of the life of Jesus. He actually contradicts the virgin birth and the betrayal of Judas. He cites less than 100 words of Jesus and these are on relatively trivial matters.

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Goodbook said:

Well then there was Timothy, Pauls spiritual son, and also Barnabas encouraged Paul.
And also Philemon.
We have Pauls letters which are now scripture and they were so inspired that there wasn't a need for God to add to what He'd already explained through Paul in terms of theology, but there were other writers of the NT not just Paul - Peter, James, Jude, John, Mark, Luke, Matthew. But certainly Paul was especially chosen by Jesus as an apostle.
He couldn't be accused of favouritism by Jesus as he wasn't even part of the original twelve. The change in him was supernatural - you could not deny someone who once persecuted christians becoming a super evangelist missionary.
He did have helpers along the way, fellowlabourers that he acknowledged in his letters - Apollos, Silas, Priscilla, Aquila etc.

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NonTheologian said:

My opinion:

Christianity is Christ. Neither Paul nor any other New Testament writer brought more to Christianity than Christ already had - which was Himself. I think this is reflected in Paul's own statement, For when one says, "I belong to Paul," and another, "I belong to Apollos," are you not merely men? Neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth [1 Corinthians 4,7].

The most important New Testament writings, again in my opinion, are the Gospels. The other writings (except maybe Revelation) are expositions on the Gospel teachings by the Apostles or those who passed on what they heard from the Apostles (e.g. Mark). There is actually a large corpus of writings that are also edifying written by those who were taught by the Apostles - the so-called "Apostolic Fathers" - but these writings were not included in the canon because they were not of the Apostles themselves, but by those who followed after them (e.g. Ignatius, Polycarp, Barnabas). Then there are writings of those who were taught by those who were taught by the Apostles, etc. (i.e. other Church Fathers).

I don't believe it is correct to say that Paul's writings somehow complemented or completed what was taught by Christ. I think, rather, that he and the other New Testament writers provide interpretation of the Gospel teachings and not new revealed truths that were somehow "missed" in the Gospels.

My opinion, anyway.

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Extraneous said:

Jesus says take no thought for your life. Paul says to be anxious for nothing. Jesus says all the law is fulfilled in love, Paul says the same thing. Jesus recites all the ten commandments, except the Sabbath, and Paul does the same. Jesus teaches us the parable of the sower, Paul teaches us that we reap what we sow. Jesus says that God will give us food and clothing, Paul says to be content with food and clothing. Jesus says that obeying his words is like building your house on a solid foundation, Paul says that we should not trust in riches but instead lay a good foundation. Jesus says that if we keep his words that the spirit will teach us and comfort us. Paul says that if we keep Pauls commands that the God of peace will be with us. That makes sense seeing how Paul seems to teach the same things that Jesus teaches. It seems to me that Paul and Christ teach the same things and Paul was surely familiar with the teaching of Christ. While i dont understand everything Jesus and Paul teaches, i can see that they sound much alike to me. THey both teach me all that i need to know about living however, and all the same commands. even if i dont understand all their mysteries.

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graceandpeace said:

I think some Christisn denominations place most of their teaching emphasis on Paul & pseudo-Pauline writings. Other denominations place heavier emphasis on Jesus's teachings & witness.

I do see conflict between Jesus & Paul at times - or perhaps it would be safer to say I have doubt that Jesus would've always come to the same conclusions as Paul. I think Paul, in his authentic letters, was trying to help answer local church concerns & so I don't think everything he wrote is universally applicable. I have bigger issues with the pseudo-Pauline writings.

To the thread's concern, I don't know what Christianity would look like without Paul's contribution. Anything that comes to mind is just speculation on my part.

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Sophrosyne said:

Exactly..... why would Jesus have said this:
Matthew 19:17-19New American Standard Bible (NASB)
17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Jesus himself was asked which commandments to keep and he purposely omitted the Sabbath Commandment.

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Righttruth said:

Jesus came to teach the spirit of the Law as He fulfilled the letter of the Law

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LittleLambofJesus said:

I think there are some within Christianity that do not view Paul as an inspired Apostle sent by God/Jesus. [Non-Christian Judaism and Islam both denounce him of course.].

There are a few threads on this topic if you and others are interested.

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/those-who-denounce-paul.7773297/#post-64121318
Those who denounce Paul

http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/paulthe.htm

Introduction

Thus far, I have shown that Paul's concept of God's foreknowledge, and his doctrine of predestination not only do not exist in Yeshua's words or the Hebrew Scriptures, but there is much evidence to the contrary to be found in them. We might call this the DNA evidence against him (Doctrine Not Accurate). It is an important part of the case against him. But it is by no means all the evidence there is against his supposed authority. There is more than enough evidence to suggest that he was not even a true apostle of Yeshua... let alone the greatest apostle who ever lived as he is so often eulogized.


There are a number of historical facts, including things that both Yeshua and Paul said as recorded in the Bible,that leave us with some very compelling evidence against his apostleship being recognized in heaven.

There are several interesting facts surrounding this case that should be noted and kept in mind...........

Conclusion

The fact that Paul converted and became a Messianic believer in Yeshua proves nothing...........

We have seen that Paul has single handedly created a counterfeit Gentile religion. The doctrines of this false apostle Paul, have clearly given men license to ignore the Law of God thus preventing men from having their names written in the Lamb's Book of Life. In this way, Paul has become one of Satan's most effective tools.

It is long overdue that Paul be called to task on what he has done. Those of us who love the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and Yeshua the Messiah must categorically reject the supposed authority of Paul and his doctrines as did the Ephesians whom Yeshua commended for doing so. If we truly love the God of Abraham, we will do as Abraham, and do as Yeshua commanded. God said He blessed Abraham;...............................................


.......................................................................





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Extraneous said:

Religion divides people and quenches the spirit. I just cant go down that road anymore.

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Sophrosyne said:

define your idea of the "spirit of the Law".

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RDKirk said:

It's true that women in ministry is an issue because of Paul. It's only because of Paul and his disciple Luke that we know there were women who were fully active in the ministry. Without Paul and his disciple Luke, there would be no question that women should not be active in the ministry.

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antletems said:

I am surprised by the amount of people who dont like Pauls teaching. I am no scholar but always thought Paul was talking via the Holt Spirit within him?

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expos4ever said:

Me neither - I have seen nothing specific in this thread that casts doubt on the coherence of Pauline theology with the material presented in the gospels.

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BobRyan said:

2 Tim 3:16 "ALL scripture is given by inspiration from God"
Peter said "Holy men of old - moved by the Holy Spirit - spoke from God" 2Peter 1:21

I know that Muslims don't like Paul - - who else does not like him??

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