Christianity Makes You More Likely to be a Victim of Unpleasant and Harmful Behavior?

[High Castle]

Throughout my life I always unfortunately walk just along the very line at where Christianity begins and no further.

This could be because of fundamental concepts that I struggle with. One concerns unrealistic expectations: the idea that you are always sinning even when the bar is practically impossible like perhaps having to not find a hilarious joke funny as it is inappropriate: let’s say it touches on being offensive/dehuminising to some or sick/morbid. Or for instance expecting your average married guy not to touch himself or even experience sexual attractiveness towards a passing beautiful woman.

So I kindly need more help with the above - something I can’t seem to ever get over conceptionally: these unrealistic expectations on people.

Also, as the thread title points to, another massive subject is the meekness aspect to Christianity. I often feel like there are plenty of people out there that pose us potential harm. Sometimes this harm can be small but regular (like the increased likeliness of being taken advantage of in the workplace) and sometimes this potential harm is huge, like having openness and a non-judgmental approach towards otherwise ominous-seeming individuals and ending up being robbed or raped, etc.

Isn’t there something about Christianity that makes one more vulnerable, more likely to be a sucker, more compromising to the point where even whole Christian nations can be put in harms way?

Your thoughts are most welcome.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

There was a word in the first paragrah that has been changed not by me and now reads very wrongly. Please could it be at least edited to say 'touch himself', thanks.

There are three dots in the lower right corner. There is an edit option. I don't believe anyone can change you post.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Throughout my life I always unfortunately walk just along the very line at where Christianity begins and no further.

This could be because of fundamental concepts that I struggle with. One concerns unrealistic expectations: the idea that you are always sinning even when the bar is practically impossible like perhaps having to not find a hilarious joke funny as it is inappropriate: let’s say it touches on being offensive/dehuminising to some or sick/morbid. Or for instance expecting your average married guy not to touch or even experience sexual attractiveness towards a passing beautiful woman.

So I kindly need more help with the above - something I can’t seem to ever get over conceptionally: these unrealistic expectations on people.

Also, as the thread title points to, another massive subject is the meekness aspect to Christianity. I often feel like there are plenty of people out there that pose us potential harm. Sometimes this harm can be small but regular (like the increased likeliness of being taken advantage of in the workplace) and sometimes this potential harm is huge, like having openness and a non-judgmental approach towards otherwise ominous-seeming individuals and ending up being robbed or raped, etc.

Isn’t there something about Christianity that makes one more vulnerable, more likely to be a sucker, more compromising to the point where even whole Christian nations can be put in harms way?

Your thoughts are most welcome.

Is there something about Christianity that makes one a sucker? .........................hmmmm. No, not that I can readily think of. Being a sucker is an unfortunate circumstance born out of naivete rather than a codified directive; if anything, we're encouraged to become discerning about the world in which we live.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Throughout my life I always unfortunately walk just along the very line at where Christianity begins and no further.

This could be because of fundamental concepts that I struggle with. One concerns unrealistic expectations: the idea that you are always sinning even when the bar is practically impossible like perhaps having to not find a hilarious joke funny as it is inappropriate: let’s say it touches on being offensive/dehuminising to some or sick/morbid. Or for instance expecting your average married guy not to touch or even experience sexual attractiveness towards a passing beautiful woman.

So I kindly need more help with the above - something I can’t seem to ever get over conceptionally: these unrealistic expectations on people.

Also, as the thread title points to, another massive subject is the meekness aspect to Christianity. I often feel like there are plenty of people out there that pose us potential harm. Sometimes this harm can be small but regular (like the increased likeliness of being taken advantage of in the workplace) and sometimes this potential harm is huge, like having openness and a non-judgmental approach towards otherwise ominous-seeming individuals and ending up being robbed or raped, etc.

Isn’t there something about Christianity that makes one more vulnerable, more likely to be a sucker, more compromising to the point where even whole Christian nations can be put in harms way?

Your thoughts are most welcome.

Central to our Christian walk is assistance through His Holy Spirit. His divine inner presence through regeneration is understood to empower believers to live in a way that aligns with God's will.

His Holy Spirit ...
* Convicts of sin.
* Guide us towards righteousness.
* Provides strength and enables spiritual growth.

The ability to live a righteous life is seen not solely a human achievement, but as a result of God's grace and His Holy Spirit's work within the believer. The flesh is weak but the Spirit is willing. Jesus Christ of Nazareth promised us His Holy Spirit .
Humans are incapable of achieving perfect righteousness on their own, God provides His Holy Spirit to enable us to live a more righteous life. Consider your plight the first step towards righteousness. There is a good work being done in you through Him. Quenching His work by living in fear is never the intended result, this is a deception.
Live in peace.
Blessings

 

[Godsunworthyservant]

Throughout my life I always unfortunately walk just along the very line at where Christianity begins and no further.

This could be because of fundamental concepts that I struggle with. One concerns unrealistic expectations: the idea that you are always sinning even when the bar is practically impossible like perhaps having to not find a hilarious joke funny as it is inappropriate: let’s say it touches on being offensive/dehuminising to some or sick/morbid. Or for instance expecting your average married guy not to touch or even experience sexual attractiveness towards a passing beautiful woman.

So I kindly need more help with the above - something I can’t seem to ever get over conceptionally: these unrealistic expectations on people.

Also, as the thread title points to, another massive subject is the meekness aspect to Christianity. I often feel like there are plenty of people out there that pose us potential harm. Sometimes this harm can be small but regular (like the increased likeliness of being taken advantage of in the workplace) and sometimes this potential harm is huge, like having openness and a non-judgmental approach towards otherwise ominous-seeming individuals and ending up being robbed or raped, etc.

Isn’t there something about Christianity that makes one more vulnerable, more likely to be a sucker, more compromising to the point where even whole Christian nations can be put in harms way?

Your thoughts are most welcome.

You say, "Also, as the thread title points to, another massive subject is the meekness aspect to Christianity. I often feel like there are plenty of people out there that pose us potential harm. Sometimes this harm can be small but regular (like the increased likeliness of being taken advantage of in the workplace) and sometimes this potential harm is huge, like having openness and a non-judgmental approach towards otherwise ominous-seeming individuals and ending up being robbed or raped, etc."

In Matthew Chapter 10, Christ sent out His disciples with the following admonition "16Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. 17But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 18And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you." Christ made no bones about the fact that if we are to follow Him, we will be the victims of persecution and subject to all sorts of related ills. He warned us to be wise as serpents for a reason. One can temper meekness with wisdom and manage with the help of God to traverse this evil world relatively unscathed. Just remember when you do find yourself the victim of evil that Christ Himself suffered far worse.

 

[com7fy8]

Throughout my life I always unfortunately walk just along the very line at where Christianity begins and no further.

You don't know Christianity by walking on a line near something. What you see to be Christianity is not Christianity. It is only what you can see from outside, or should I say from the limits of your own imagination?

If an Eskimo has never seen a house but has only lived in an igloo > what might he think of a house? For his first time ever, he sees a place made of wood, with smoke coming out of its chimney. Well, he certainly does not want to go into a place full of smoke. And he can keep wearing his warm clothing. So, why get warm in smoke???? inside a place made of wood???? Isn't that fire inside the house going to burn the wood of the house???? "My igloo is made of snow; so no fire can burn that; why live in what can burn????"

"I will stay on the line near the house, but not go in it."

"What could happen go me, if I went in?" me me me me - worry about me.

But who can take care of you better? > you or the One who made you?

 

[High Castle]

There are three dots in the lower right corner. There is an edit option. I don't believe anyone can change you post.

Im using a window's browser and there are no 3 dots

 

[High Castle]

Just remember when you do find yourself the victim of evil that Christ Himself suffered far worse.

That's the problem, the ultimate sacrifice that lies at the heart of Christianity will inevitably compel its followers in that direction – the direction of victimhood. Sorry, but I don’t want to be a victim. Such an ethos is a bad recipe to live by. I’m not saying God wants us to be victims - that I don’t know. However, an ethos that would increase your chances of being harmed and taken advantage of by bad people is a concern.

 

[High Castle]

You don't know Christianity by walking on a line near something. What you see to be Christianity is not Christianity. It is only what you can see from outside, or should I say from the limits of your own imagination?

If an Eskimo has never seen a house but has only lived in an igloo > what might he think of a house? For his first time ever, he sees a place made of wood, with smoke coming out of its chimney. Well, he certainly does not want to go into a place full of smoke. And he can keep wearing his warm clothing. So, why get warm in smoke???? inside a place made of wood???? Isn't that fire inside the house going to burn the wood of the house???? "My igloo is made of snow; so no fire can burn that; why live in what can burn????"

"I will stay on the line near the house, but not go in it."

"What could happen go me, if I went in?" me me me me - worry about me.

But who can take care of you better? > you or the One who made you?

I like the analogy, thanks.

However, I guess there’s always two sides to every coin. If someone waves some moldy-looking, bad-smelling cheese in front of your face and says ‘Taste it’, it only takes you 2 seconds to test your perception and you then discover it’s actually a delicious French delicacy. Likewise you can easily walk into a house and discover the smoke is but a warm fireplace, as per your example.

However, if I told you some wretched-seeming place was actually a nice holiday destination, I wouldn’t expect you to potentially waste your annual leave and book a flight. So I wonder how realistic it is to *try a faith. You see, I already am a believer in Christ – I ‘m just very dubious of everything purported in the bible and have conceptual wrestling matches taking place in my mind keeping me on the fringes of Christianity.

I grew up in a rough environment and if Jesus’s teachings would make me more vulnerable to harm then that’s a real problem for me. I’ve only got by, by being streetwise and developing systems and habits to protect myself. Would God have me undo them all?

It’s like these expectations I mentioned earlier. Sometimes it feels like you can’t function well in modern society with Christian concepts. That’s why I’m checking here if my perceptions of Christian concepts are correct? Like would God have us not judge some ominous individual and increase our chances of being harmed? Does He want us to give people a second chance and risk injury and destress to ourselves?

Your thoughts are appreciated.

 

[Yarddog]

Throughout my life I always unfortunately walk just along the very line at where Christianity begins and no further.

This could be because of fundamental concepts that I struggle with. One concerns unrealistic expectations: the idea that you are always sinning even when the bar is practically impossible like perhaps having to not find a hilarious joke funny as it is inappropriate: let’s say it touches on being offensive/dehuminising to some or sick/morbid. Or for instance expecting your average married guy not to touch himself or even experience sexual attractiveness towards a passing beautiful woman.

So I kindly need more help with the above - something I can’t seem to ever get over conceptionally: these unrealistic expectations on people.

Also, as the thread title points to, another massive subject is the meekness aspect to Christianity. I often feel like there are plenty of people out there that pose us potential harm. Sometimes this harm can be small but regular (like the increased likeliness of being taken advantage of in the workplace) and sometimes this potential harm is huge, like having openness and a non-judgmental approach towards otherwise ominous-seeming individuals and ending up being robbed or raped, etc.

Isn’t there something about Christianity that makes one more vulnerable, more likely to be a sucker, more compromising to the point where even whole Christian nations can be put in harms way?

Your thoughts are most welcome.

I certainly don't agree. Of course, if one lives in a community where Christians are a minority, then this may be true.

 

[Godsunworthyservant]

That's the problem, the ultimate sacrifice that lies at the heart of Christianity will inevitably compel its followers in that direction – the direction of victimhood. Sorry, but I don’t want to be a victim. Such an ethos is a bad recipe to live by. I’m not saying God wants us to be victims - that I don’t know. However, an ethos that would increase your chances of being harmed and taken advantage of by bad people is a concern.

What you may see as victimization someone else may see as martyrdom. I don't think God want's us to be a victim, which is why Christ taught us to be wise as serpents. In my many years teaching the Gospel, the worst I've endured was the occasional derision, mainly from "Christians" who don't share my beliefs. Compared to the Apostles who faced persecution at the hands of both the Jewish community and the Roman Empire, relatively speaking, we have nothing to worry about. I'd suggest just following the commandments of God and the teachings of Christ and if a situation should arise where you are victimized, God will give you the strength to endure it.

 

[Jermayn]

Throughout my life I always unfortunately walk just along the very line at where Christianity begins and no further.

This could be because of fundamental concepts that I struggle with. One concerns unrealistic expectations: the idea that you are always sinning even when the bar is practically impossible like perhaps having to not find a hilarious joke funny as it is inappropriate: let’s say it touches on being offensive/dehuminising to some or sick/morbid. Or for instance expecting your average married guy not to touch himself or even experience sexual attractiveness towards a passing beautiful woman.

So I kindly need more help with the above - something I can’t seem to ever get over conceptionally: these unrealistic expectations on people.

Also, as the thread title points to, another massive subject is the meekness aspect to Christianity. I often feel like there are plenty of people out there that pose us potential harm. Sometimes this harm can be small but regular (like the increased likeliness of being taken advantage of in the workplace) and sometimes this potential harm is huge, like having openness and a non-judgmental approach towards otherwise ominous-seeming individuals and ending up being robbed or raped, etc.

Isn’t there something about Christianity that makes one more vulnerable, more likely to be a sucker, more compromising to the point where even whole Christian nations can be put in harms way?

Your thoughts are most welcome.

First, I’d like to address your concern about what seem like unrealistic expectations. There’s a reason the Bible describes salvation as becoming a new creation. When your heart truly shifts from serving your own desires to serving God, you’ll find that many of the things you once clung to lose their grip. That doesn’t mean you’ll become perfect overnight, but you’ll begin to notice conviction over sin, a desire to repent, and a pattern of growth away from willful disobedience. That’s part of what Scripture calls the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22–23), and it’s a great passage to reflect on when examining where we stand in our walk with God. I’m not saying this to question your salvation or make assumptions about you, just offering some encouragement and perspective since you brought up the topic.

As for your second concern, about meekness and vulnerability, I really appreciate your honesty. This is an area that’s often misunderstood. One of the most misused biblical phrases is “judge not.” Jesus was speaking against hypocrisy, not against using wisdom or discernment. Scripture never commands us to put ourselves in reckless or dangerous situations just to appear “non-judgmental.” To use a humorous but clear example: if statistics showed that people wearing orange shirts, shoulder-length hair, and a heart tattoo were responsible for 80% of murders, and you showed up to a blind date with someone matching that description—wisdom wouldn’t demand that you ignore the data in the name of Christian kindness. Discernment and boundaries are biblical, too.

So, to answer your question, yes, a misunderstanding of Scripture can absolutely lead to harmful choices. But when rightly understood, Christianity doesn’t make you a sucker, it gives you both the heart to love others and the wisdom to protect yourself and those around you.

 

[com7fy8]

I like the analogy, thanks.

However, I guess there’s always two sides to every coin. If someone waves some moldy-looking, bad-smelling cheese in front of your face and says ‘Taste it’, it only takes you 2 seconds to test your perception and you then discover it’s actually a delicious French delicacy.

Our character . . . our *own* character has a lot to do with how we sense something, and if and how something is good for us.

Jesus is not boring. But if we are not with Him . . . He can seem boring, because of our own nature. People in their nature can be connected with the wrong one and be blaming Jesus, possibly. And we can even be trying to make God answer to us!!

Likewise you can easily walk into a house and discover the smoke is but a warm fireplace, as per your example.

And I meant, from the outside assuming > if smoke is coming from the chimney, there must be nothing but smoke inside the house.

So, about how Jesus says not to resist an evil person and turn the other cheek > I have done this.

If things work how Satan's kingdom works . . . yes, it does not work.

But if Jesus means God will be in perfect control and nothing can happen to us without it being decided by God > nothing else is safe.

One time, I was outside walking from one state to another with the clothes on my back, and I entered a mental institution complex of buildings in order to use a bathroom. I was able to get into an unsecured bathroom. After I was done with toileting myself, I was at a sink where a patient with privileges was at a sink. I got a strong sense he would want to sucker punch me. So, I moved over closer to him and said, "Jesus says to turn the other cheek, doesn't He?" We got to talking about Jesus, and the guy said he was very displeased with his doctor. I said something like, that the doctors can be helpless and ignorant and only Jesus can do us the real good we need, and Jesus wants him to love the people who are unable to help us: he needed to love his psychiatrist and be a real friend to the doctor and say things to help the person.

If I was worried about him hitting me . . . I'll just say that God will have us taking risks to love people. And He is able to guide us according to all He knows He means by His word.

However, if I told you some wretched-seeming place was actually a nice holiday destination, I wouldn’t expect you to potentially waste your annual leave and book a flight.

I am fine with hard-working people taking vacations and enjoying using their money they have earned honestly. I have had Christian friends who are well-to-do, and they are so unconceited, helping people who even are dishonest with nothing because of their own selfish selves; and such kind and caring people have helped me get over my conceit and self-righteous criticizing of others.

However, in my case, I have been feeding on Matthew 11:29 >

"'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:29)

So, I expect Jesus to have me in His rest of love, all the time while I am doing what He has me doing. This is vacation - - - if and while I am in the "state" of this rest . . . anywhere.

So I wonder how realistic it is to *try a faith. You see, I already am a believer in Christ – I ‘m just very dubious of everything purported in the bible and have conceptual wrestling matches taking place in my mind keeping me on the fringes of Christianity.

Well, it's not about concepts . . . at least not as much as about actually being submissive to God, so we are sharing with Him . . . and with each other who are living in Jesus and His loving. And then we discover how things work out, practically.

I grew up in a rough environment and if Jesus’s teachings would make me more vulnerable to harm then that’s a real problem for me. I’ve only got by, by being streetwise and developing systems and habits to protect myself. Would God have me undo them all?

Jesus is our Lord and Savior, able to guide us according to all He knows He means by His word. I have been in the hands and arms of gang people, and I have been hit and kicked, and not. I have used measures. One time, a karate guy had kicked me around. Then I asked where he went; he picked me up over his shoulders or so, and I did not wish to come down straight on my head, so I went totally limp so I would be like a long bag of potatoes and he just dropped me; if I had stayed stiff resisting, he could have turned me and thrown me down like a spear, head first. Another time, I had a guy pulling me up to his face; I just beamed a smile at him and he let me go.

I did not plan ahead . . . no rehearsing what God knows will happen.

It’s like these expectations I mentioned earlier. Sometimes it feels like you can’t function well in modern society with Christian concepts. That’s why I’m checking here if my perceptions of Christian concepts are correct?

"Test all things; hold fast what is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

I test, by submitting to God and discover what He really has me do. And now I am liviing in an apartment and have a lady friend for about eleven years. It takes more ability to love and to submit to God, in relating with people, than it takes to turn the other cheek. And you might have noted how a number of people can not stay out of an argument, yet they can take up arms and fight. They have the discipline and the power to win a fight but not to stay out of an argument. But with my learning to turn the other cheek came also being able to keep my mouth shut rather than argue. We can hear in our thinking how if we let the other have the last word, they will take everything from us, and then in the fear of this we argue . . . and lose the relating we could have in God's love with His creating better than all we might fear losing.

Like would God have us not judge some ominous individual and increase our chances of being harmed?

Final judging of a person as having no hope is what I understand Jesus means.

Accurately evaluating the person is wise. Look at the relationships people are in because they have not evaluated their own selves and whomever they are involved with. Look at how church groups have been unable to reliably evaluate who they put in their pulpits. They now can have such an array of policies for how to prevent and detect predation and what to do when they discover a predator or con artist . . . but what about, "Make sure with God about whom you trust"? Prevention works. But if I am not able to make sure with God, about people . . . this is not the fault of the evil people who can take advantage of me.

So, when people take advantage of me . . . my policy is that I answer to God first, about why I was not obeying how God would lead me according to all He knows about people, and what He really wants me to be doing. Jesus does mean to be personally guided by God in us >

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

Does He want us to give people a second chance and risk injury and destress to ourselves?

Forgiving does not mean trusting someone. We *test* if and how God has us trusting every person.

On the cross, Jesus prayed >

"Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do." (in Luke 23:34)

I understand . . . . . . yes, Jesus forgave those evil people, right while they were still busy with hating and torturing and murdering Jesus who is God's own Son. But Jesus was not at all trusting them.

And then He came out better than they did.

So - - - answer to God, now, for what He really wants with us > "us" < do not get isolated with worrying about what will happen to you on your lonesome.

"casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you." (1 Peter 5:7)

Your thoughts are appreciated.

God bless you, t

 

[High Castle]

First, I’d like to address your concern about what seem like unrealistic expectations. There’s a reason the Bible describes salvation as becoming a new creation. When your heart truly shifts from serving your own desires to serving God, you’ll find that many of the things you once clung to lose their grip. That doesn’t mean you’ll become perfect overnight, but you’ll begin to notice conviction over sin, a desire to repent, and a pattern of growth away from willful disobedience. That’s part of what Scripture calls the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22–23), and it’s a great passage to reflect on when examining where we stand in our walk with God. I’m not saying this to question your salvation or make assumptions about you, just offering some encouragement and perspective since you brought up the topic.

Ok, thanks. I hope so.

As for your second concern, about meekness and vulnerability, I really appreciate your honesty. This is an area that’s often misunderstood. One of the most misused biblical phrases is “judge not.” Jesus was speaking against hypocrisy, not against using wisdom or discernment. Scripture never commands us to put ourselves in reckless or dangerous situations just to appear “non-judgmental.” To use a humorous but clear example: if statistics showed that people wearing orange shirts, shoulder-length hair, and a heart tattoo were responsible for 80% of murders, and you showed up to a blind date with someone matching that description—wisdom wouldn’t demand that you ignore the data in the name of Christian kindness. Discernment and boundaries are biblical, too.

So, to answer your question, yes, a misunderstanding of Scripture can absolutely lead to harmful choices. But when rightly understood, Christianity doesn’t make you a sucker, it gives you both the heart to love others and the wisdom to protect yourself and those around you.

Through this dialogue, I have realised that some of my perspective on Christian meekness comes from the missionary work of Gladys Aylward. I am British and I don't know how famous she was outside of Britian, but her story significantly featured in my life as a young child.

She famously walked into a dangerous prison alone at great risk to herself to further her missionary work in China. This absolutely was given to us as children as a sign of the purest of Christian action and virtue - this putting ourselves directely in harms' way for the Lord God.

The above, along with other examples noneother than Jesus himself - the constant lack of defending himself as the purest of virtues - formed my impressions of Christian meekness.

Perhaps I've got it wrong. Perhaps ideas have been relayed incorrectly in stories and films, but it is hard to shake off these early interpretations of Christianity that I experienced and was molded by: the meekness, the victim, the turn the other cheek, the sacrifice of oneself, the ubreakable ethic of forgiveness (again an idea that directs us to being the victim). It does make for concern that as a Christian it seems as though you are expected to put yourself in harm's way.

 

[High Castle]

But if Jesus means God will be in perfect control and nothing can happen to us without it being decided by God > nothing else is safe.

I appreciate the idea of leaving our fate in God's hands, as expressed above - this idea that God ultimately oversees our safety. Unfortunetely, however, the opposite contradictory idea is also expressed in Christianity, and that is free will and not relying or blaming God for how things turn out, including decisions that lead to injury I presume.

So I feel there is a problem here. Which is it: It's all in God's hands or It's all in our hands?

You can't have it both ways. You can't have it that when something wrong happens it's your doing and when something goes well it's God's doing ( or vice versa).

One time, I was outside walking from one state to another with the clothes on my back, and I entered a mental institution complex of buildings in order to use a bathroom. I was able to get into an unsecured bathroom. After I was done with toileting myself, I was at a sink where a patient with privileges was at a sink. I got a strong sense he would want to sucker punch me. So, I moved over closer to him and said, "Jesus says to turn the other cheek, doesn't He?" We got to talking about Jesus, and the guy said he was very displeased with his doctor. I said something like, that the doctors can be helpless and ignorant and only Jesus can do us the real good we need, and Jesus wants him to love the people who are unable to help us: he needed to love his psychiatrist and be a real friend to the doctor and say things to help the person.

If I was worried about him hitting me . . . I'll just say that God will have us taking risks to love people. And He is able to guide us according to all He knows He means by His word.

I think there is a point here that I hadn't considered and that is that, in many instances (but importantly not all) it's the good will we exude that actually protects us from harm.

Well, it's not about concepts . . . at least not as much as about actually being submissive to God, so we are sharing with Him . . . and with each other who are living in Jesus and His loving. And then we discover how things work out, practically.

It's quite possible that I'm the type of person who overconceptualises everything and that is a problem in itself in that perhaps not everything in life benefits from conceptual framing.

I did not plan ahead . . . no rehearsing what God knows will happen.

"Test all things; hold fast what is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

I test, by submitting to God and discover what He really has me do. And now I am liviing in an apartment and have a lady friend for about eleven years. It takes more ability to love and to submit to God, in relating with people, than it takes to turn the other cheek. And you might have noted how a number of people can not stay out of an argument, yet they can take up arms and fight. They have the discipline and the power to win a fight but not to stay out of an argument. But with my learning to turn the other cheek came also being able to keep my mouth shut rather than argue. We can hear in our thinking how if we let the other have the last word, they will take everything from us, and then in the fear of this we argue . . . and lose the relating we could have in God's love with His creating better than all we might fear losing.

Yes, sounds wise. It might often in fact take more strength to not argue than to argue. Quarals and ill-will towards others can lead to harm to ourselves - so again a good point that some of the attributes of Christianity actually reduces risk of harm. Risk of harm is not a two-dimensional thing. It has many aspects and layers.

So I guess that any issues I would have are connected to those sizable aspects of Christianity that would increase the likeliness of harm to its followers than those that don't.

Final judging of a person as having no hope is what I understand Jesus means.

Accurately evaluating the person is wise. Look at the relationships people are in because they have not evaluated their own selves and whomever they are involved with. Look at how church groups have been unable to reliably evaluate who they put in their pulpits. They now can have such an array of policies for how to prevent and detect predation and what to do when they discover a predator or con artist . . . but what about, "Make sure with God about whom you trust"? Prevention works. But if I am not able to make sure with God, about people . . . this is not the fault of the evil people who can take advantage of me.

So, when people take advantage of me . . . my policy is that I answer to God first, about why I was not obeying how God would lead me according to all He knows about people, and what He really wants me to be doing. Jesus does mean to be personally guided by God in us >

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

I'm not sure I understand this. Does God want us to trust others or not?

Forgiving does not mean trusting someone. We *test* if and how God has us trusting every person.

I don't know to what extent forgiveness is assossiated with trust. At the very least they can be loosly connected. If forgiveness is a Christian virtue then I would say that can lead us in the direction of further harm from dubious individuals.

On the cross, Jesus prayed >

"Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do." (in Luke 23:34)

I understand . . . . . . yes, Jesus forgave those evil people, right while they were still busy with hating and torturing and murdering Jesus who is God's own Son. But Jesus was not at all trusting them.

And then He came out better than they did.

So - - - answer to God, now, for what He really wants with us > "us" < do not get isolated with worrying about what will happen to you on your lonesome.

"casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you." (1 Peter 5:7)

God bless you, t

Thank you. I guess as you described above, the final scene of Jesus being tortured to death and not once fighting back is the ultimate symbol of victimhood. Rightly or wrongly, this is the strongest message of all: to submit as a victim even in the face of the severest of harm. Hence the title of this thread.


Everyone's thoughts are most welcome and appreciated. I read everything even if I don't reply.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Throughout my life I always unfortunately walk just along the very line at where Christianity begins and no further.

This could be because of fundamental concepts that I struggle with. One concerns unrealistic expectations: the idea that you are always sinning even when the bar is practically impossible like perhaps having to not find a hilarious joke funny as it is inappropriate: let’s say it touches on being offensive/dehuminising to some or sick/morbid. Or for instance expecting your average married guy not to touch himself or even experience sexual attractiveness towards a passing beautiful woman.

So I kindly need more help with the above - something I can’t seem to ever get over conceptionally: these unrealistic expectations on people.

Also, as the thread title points to, another massive subject is the meekness aspect to Christianity. I often feel like there are plenty of people out there that pose us potential harm. Sometimes this harm can be small but regular (like the increased likeliness of being taken advantage of in the workplace) and sometimes this potential harm is huge, like having openness and a non-judgmental approach towards otherwise ominous-seeming individuals and ending up being robbed or raped, etc.

Isn’t there something about Christianity that makes one more vulnerable, more likely to be a sucker, more compromising to the point where even whole Christian nations can be put in harms way?

Your thoughts are most welcome.

Well, these aren't exactly,"impossible expectations.

I don't mean to say this in the sense of our ability, as we have none. But I mean this in the sense that all things are judged according to God's moral standards.

We have an infinitely Holy God who is absolutely pure. And that is the standard we are judged according to.

We can't meet the standard, that's the point of needing a Savior to save us. We were born fallen creatures in a fallen world who would all be judged negatively were we to be judged by God apart from Christ.

 

[Hazelelponi]

It’s like these expectations I mentioned earlier. Sometimes it feels like you can’t function well in modern society with Christian concepts. That’s why I’m checking here if my perceptions of Christian concepts are correct? Like would God have us not judge some ominous individual and increase our chances of being harmed? Does He want us to give people a second chance and risk injury and destress to ourselves?

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Christianity is not a theocratic system, but it is a worldview that's particular in some aspects.

It places government over the society under it, and gives government the responsibility to punish "evildoers" etc in order to keep peace in society and safety for the citizens. (Romans 13:4 and 1 Peter 2:14)

When governments don't do that they are sinning before God.

But in specific, these types of matters are not within the responsibility of the Christian, though in democracies where we vote we do want to vote for our values as best we are able.

For the Christian, living a life which glorifies God, a life which grows and changes some over time, as we learn and grow in Christ, is the objective.

Thing about sin, is you will be forgiven. None of us are perfect we are saved by grace through faith and are simply being sanctified in Christ.

When we notice a particular sin we do work on overcoming that sin in Christ, and no one is going to be a saint overnight, or ever in their own eyes.

But, our sin doesn't diminish our worth, it increases His, in my opinion. As Paul told us the Lord said to Him " My power is made perfect in weakness" (2 Corinthians 12:9)

Jesus Christ saved us from the just punishment for our sin in order to reconcile us to God and place us into a Covenant with Him. The New Covenant in Christs blood. This is relationship, but it's not one based in abuse it's one based in love.

Jesus gave everything for us to know God, to know HIM. We are living in a time where Satan is still here tempting but not able to have any power over us. We have power in Christ. Satan might bite (tempt), but the second death is all that matters, and Satan has no witness against us (he is no longer our accuser), Christ is now our mediator before God - rendering Satan utterly powerless.

We have a God who loves us,and set us free from the power of sin and death and a God who will forgive us if we but ask His forgiveness.

So though we strive to be better than what we are, when we fall short (and we know we will)'we have a God who can identify with our weakness and who is quick to forgive us.

We are not saving ourselves. Christ did that - all our faith is in Him and His Work and there's nothing we can add to that perfect work, though we desire to live in accordance with God's moral standards for us, as we are now children of the Living God.

 

[stevevw]

Throughout my life I always unfortunately walk just along the very line at where Christianity begins and no further.

This could be because of fundamental concepts that I struggle with. One concerns unrealistic expectations: the idea that you are always sinning even when the bar is practically impossible like perhaps having to not find a hilarious joke funny as it is inappropriate: let’s say it touches on being offensive/dehuminising to some or sick/morbid. Or for instance expecting your average married guy not to touch himself or even experience sexual attractiveness towards a passing beautiful woman.

So I kindly need more help with the above - something I can’t seem to ever get over conceptionally: these unrealistic expectations on people.

Also, as the thread title points to, another massive subject is the meekness aspect to Christianity. I often feel like there are plenty of people out there that pose us potential harm. Sometimes this harm can be small but regular (like the increased likeliness of being taken advantage of in the workplace) and sometimes this potential harm is huge, like having openness and a non-judgmental approach towards otherwise ominous-seeming individuals and ending up being robbed or raped, etc.

Isn’t there something about Christianity that makes one more vulnerable, more likely to be a sucker, more compromising to the point where even whole Christian nations can be put in harms way?

Your thoughts are most welcome.

I get what you mean so don't worry about the word edit.

I have been reading Peters letter on submission to authority and masters. Paul also says similar. I was finding it hard to understand how can Peter be asking a Christian servant or even a wife to be subject to another even if they are unjust.

Is Peter supporting abuse. Then he mentions not to let your freedom cover up injustice and evil. I realised that it wasn't about a power thing but a disposition that actually exposes the unjust and evil heart and this is what causes the evil doer to either stop in the tracks and realise the wrong or even respent and turn to God.

That was because in that act of submission it was reflecting an obedience and purity that was in Christ which could not be faulted. This exposes the injustice and evil without a word being said. What a powerful and radical way compared to the usual going on the attack and staring each other down.

Of course thats contextual and no one is saying that Christians should put up with bullying or persecution. But really this approach of being sure enough in God to trust him in those times when there is a battle of wits and especially wth family. The idea of turning the other cheek and even helping your enermy changes the dynamics pretty quickly if in the right context.

There is certainly more concern in being a Christians today and we have to be careful in how we say things. But at the same time we should be standing with Christ when it counts even if that means suffering. God will always be there.

PS related to that I watched the series on House of David where David is facing Goliath. They say he was near 10 foot tall. David was a teen entering manhood. Everyone was afraid and he was the only one who believed in God. Thats why he became King. But we all face our Goliaths. Not always physically but also spiritually.

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

Isn’t there something about Christianity that makes one more vulnerable, more likely to be a sucker, more compromising to the point where even whole Christian nations can be put in harms way?

There are no Christian nations of this world. Those who think that there are, are indeed suckers to the great many deceptive powers and principalities of this world. If, on the other hand, we serve the King of the Kingdom of God, we are not compromising, because we have very different purposes to which we are devoted.

 

[com7fy8]

I'm not sure I understand this. Does God want us to trust others or not?

He expects us to evaluate reliably, if and how we trust each person. Do not trust blindly.

We trust God because He has proven Himself.

So, when I turn the other cheek, no I am not trusting the person.

I don't know to what extent forgiveness is assossiated with trust. At the very least they can be loosly connected. If forgiveness is a Christian virtue then I would say that can lead us in the direction of further harm from dubious individuals.

Jesus did not stay where trouble people could keep trying to hurt and kill Him. But He would face them. But He was not trusting them!

You learn with God, when and how to risk and when to stay away from certain people. And there are times when God arranges to remove people and keep people away.

I use trusting and forgiving as a tool. I give people an opportunity to do well with me. But I am ready for people to fail me. I am ready to forgive, and I risk what I can afford to lose. There are things worth risking in order to have love.