Christianity is sooooo Illogical!

[swdee]

If John was showing the way to salvation through baptism, then what was the need for Jesus to do what he is said to have done? Surley people could have just carried on being baptised.
And why have baptism nowadays if Jesus' salvation was the ultimate?

You say that since the death and resurrection of Jesus, anyone who doesn't believe in him will go to hell.... erm... is it just me or is that completely insane!!???
News travelled very slowly in those days so it could take many years before everyone in the world heard about it, so in the meantime God said 'It's tuff luck, you weren't living in close proximity to that event so you're going to hell!!!'

 

[The Midge]

The Baptism of John was not a baptism of salvation merely a baptism of repentence. John was sent as a herald to prepare the way for the messiah, which we believe to Jesus of Nazareth.

Baptism is a sign of

• Sharing in the death and resurrection of Christ as the caniddate symbolicaly dies through the immersion of water and is brought back through the water to salvation. imagery of cleanising or washing away of sins is also important.
• obedience; doing what Jesus asked us to do, and a sign of faith
• identification with a Gospel. The ceremony loses some of its value when it becomes just the done thing, but in the first centuary it was a significant public declaration and break with the religions of the time. If a Muslim were to be publically baptisedit would have been as ssignificant and risky as being baptized during Nero's persecution.

I don't believe that one is saved by baptism as denominations such as the Church of Christ teach, rather it is a case of confession that one becomes a Christian:

Ro 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Ro 10:10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

Anyone who does not respond the gospel is not saved, for it is Christ death and resurrection that saves. There is debate about whether or not those who have not heared the Gospel do get a chance to respond, perhaps on Judgement Day. However although there are some tenous clues in such as Peter, there is no clear proof or teaching in the Bible either way. There is, however, an urgency for Christian to go a preach, spread the gospel and "make disciples of all nations". I think this is because God wants to save or redeem as much as our mortal lives as possible not just save us for eternal life.

However, it is unlikely that those who do not respond to repeated opportunities to respond to the gospel in this life will respond to it on Judgement day either, for there is such a thing as their free will.

 

[newlite]

baptism is a way to show your a christain, like a wedding ring shows your married...

baptism doesnt make you a christain, nor must you be baohtised to go to heaven, it is a sign of obedeance. (thats what my pastor said anyway...)

 

[FaithAlone]

AMEN to the above posts. Putting your faith in Christ is what saves you and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Have you ever read the Bible for yourself? Not just a few verses but chapters at a time in the New Testament especially? There's some amazing stuff in there. Hebrews tells us that the word of God is living and active and if you ask God to show you His truth through His word you will see what I mean. It's hard to read the Bible with an open mind and not come away changed. Please keep searching. Don't look at people for your faith, look to Christ.

 

[Stinker]

If John was showing the way to salvation through baptism, then what was the need for Jesus to do what he is said to have done? Surley people could have just carried on being baptised.
And why have baptism nowadays if Jesus' salvation was the ultimate?

You say that since the death and resurrection of Jesus, anyone who doesn't believe in him will go to hell.... erm... is it just me or is that completely insane!!???
News travelled very slowly in those days so it could take many years before everyone in the world heard about it, so in the meantime God said 'It's tuff luck, you weren't living in close proximity to that event so you're going to hell!!!'

The Apostle Peter was not wrong when he told those blasphemers of Christ what to do in order to get right with God again:
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"
Then Peter said unto them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,.." (Acts 2:37-38)


Well, it's been over 2000 years since the Apostles and others went out to preach the Gospel. The timing of the first missionary journey and the death of the one's who never got a chance to become Christians, have ended long ago. The only problem that is of concern now, is what YOU do now with the Gospel swdee.

 

[Rafael]

If John was showing the way to salvation through baptism, then what was the need for Jesus to do what he is said to have done? Surley people could have just carried on being baptised.
And why have baptism nowadays if Jesus' salvation was the ultimate?

You say that since the death and resurrection of Jesus, anyone who doesn't believe in him will go to hell.... erm... is it just me or is that completely insane!!???
News travelled very slowly in those days so it could take many years before everyone in the world heard about it, so in the meantime God said 'It's tuff luck, you weren't living in close proximity to that event so you're going to hell!!!'

There's a little more to it than what you have here in your understanding. God indentified Himself through Jesus, God in the flesh of man, and when Jesus was baptised He was doing what was right for a man to do efven though John told Jesus he wasn't worthy to even touch the latch of His sandal, much less baptize Him.

why have baptism nowadays if Jesus' salvation was the ultimate?

Baptizm is a public confession of faith in Jesus Christ, the Savior and Messiah, not faith in baptizm.

You say that since the death and resurrection of Jesus, anyone who doesn't believe in him will go to hell....

No, Jesus made this claim saying, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but by Me." (John 14:6) We, as believers are not allowed to judge. You have to approach God yourself and find Him. If you reject His Son, then that is your choice to call His love insane.

Mt.3:14 But John didn’t want to baptize him. "I am the one who needs to be baptized by you," he said, "so why are you coming to me?"
15 But Jesus said, "It must be done, because we must do everything that is right." So then John baptized him.

Even though He was the perfect lamb of God and born without the sin nature of man inherited from Adam, Jesus identified Himself with man so that He could bear the sins of mankind on the cross for man.
John said that Jesus would baptize with fire and the Holy Ghost, not with repentance.

Mt. 3:11 "I baptize with water those who turn from their sins and turn to God. But someone is coming soon who is far greater than I am—so much greater that I am not even worthy to be his slave. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

 

[Vigil]

You say that since the death and resurrection of Jesus, anyone who doesn't believe in him will go to hell.... erm... is it just me or is that completely insane!!???

It's anyone that does not accept his Gift of Salvation.

If the Gift is not offred, it can not be accepted, that is why we seek to offer the gift of salvation to all.

As for believing:

You can believe in him all you want, Devils believe in him also, they are not going to Heaven.

Vigil.

 

[LegomasterJC]

Water Baptism is a profession of our faith and Jesus also told us that it is necessary.
John 3:5Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of [Ezek 36:25-27; Eph 5:26; Titus 3:5] water and the Spirit he cannot enter into [Matt 19:24; 21:31; Mark 9:47; 10:14; John 3:3] the kingdom of God.
So we must have a public profession of our faith as well as receiving the Holy Spirit.
Just being baptised in water saying that you profess your faith, without really meaning it of course means nothing... It is harder to understand that though we are baptized in the Spirit as I was before my water baptism, we still need to have the water baptism.

 

[coreXian]

Water Baptism is a profession of our faith and Jesus also told us that it is necessary.
John 3:5Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of [Ezek 36:25-27; Eph 5:26; Titus 3:5] water and the Spirit he cannot enter into [Matt 19:24; 21:31; Mark 9:47; 10:14; John 3:3] the kingdom of God.
So we must have a public profession of our faith as well as receiving the Holy Spirit.
Just being baptised in water saying that you profess your faith, without really meaning it of course means nothing... It is harder to understand that though we are baptized in the Spirit as I was before my water baptism, we still need to have the water baptism.

Very true!

 

[Alice the Sister]

Christianity is meant to be illogical. Man is not to "lean on his own understanding"

he's supposed to acknowledge Jesus as his guidance. It's having faith.

Then people say: "show me" ....

Then it wouldn't really be "faith" anymore would it?

 

[Stinker]

Christianity is meant to be illogical. Man is not to "lean on his own understanding"

he's supposed to acknowledge Jesus as his guidance. It's having faith.

Then people say: "show me" ....

Then it wouldn't really be "faith" anymore would it?

Christianity is meant to be illogical?

"In the beginning was the word (logos), and the word (logos) was with God, and the word (logos) was God." (Jn.1:1)


Jesus was very logical when He was personally teaching here on earth. One reason that there are so many different churches is due to the lack of respect for logic when studying the New Testament. False teachers have been, and still are. increasing their efforts to 'mysticize' the Christian faith so as to unconsciously cause further division.

 

[Faith In God]

If John was showing the way to salvation through baptism, then what was the need for Jesus to do what he is said to have done? Surley people could have just carried on being baptised.

baptism was a public confession of sin and repentance. It was likened to the sin offerings of old. The offerings themselves did not save, but they pointed to the later sacrifice that would save.

And why have baptism nowadays if Jesus' salvation was the ultimate?

It's a public confession and transition from the old life to the new.

You say that since the death and resurrection of Jesus, anyone who doesn't believe in him will go to hell.... erm... is it just me or is that completely insane!!???

They will go to hell. This makes sense in that hell is God's just desserts on sin. Those who have not been pardoned must pay the full penalty, but those that have accepted the pardon that God provided may be justified.

News travelled very slowly in those days so it could take many years before everyone in the world heard about it, so in the meantime God said 'It's tuff luck, you weren't living in close proximity to that event so you're going to hell!!!'

Why do you think the apostles left immediately to evangelize? No one is without excuse, because they know of God's existance through creation and know of their guilt of sin because of conscience.

Christianity does make logical sense if you put aside any bias that you might have from the world.

 

[Faith In God]

Christianity is meant to be illogical.

...then why are phrases such as 'Come, let us reason together' in the bible? God makes sense, my friend.

Man is not to "lean on his own understanding"

because man does not know everything, but God does, but humans aren't dumb.

he's supposed to acknowledge Jesus as his guidance. It's having faith.

Faith? Certainly! Blind faith? Absolutely not.

Then people say: "show me" ....

Then it wouldn't really be "faith" anymore would it?

Even if they are 'shown', they will deny it. Remember the rich man who went to hell?

 

[LegomasterJC]

That's not necessarily true. That man might have come to know salvation afterwards. He just turned away at that time.

 

[Faith In God]

That's not necessarily true. That man might have come to know salvation afterwards. He just turned away at that time.

...who? What is this response to?

 

[newlite]

*the story of the rich man who asked jesus what he had to do to enter heaven. jesus talked about giving his money to the poor and because he was rich he was "sad". he said no and left... [the thing being said is the rich man new how to get there but refused [going to hell], but it doesnt mention the guy again so he might of followed later on [and went to heaven]]

somethime to that line. i dont know the versus...

*[i think...]

 

[Paul_Wright_luvr]

If John was showing the way to salvation through baptism, then what was the need for Jesus to do what he is said to have done? Surley people could have just carried on being baptised.
And why have baptism nowadays if Jesus' salvation was the ultimate?

You say that since the death and resurrection of Jesus, anyone who doesn't believe in him will go to hell.... erm... is it just me or is that completely insane!!???
News travelled very slowly in those days so it could take many years before everyone in the world heard about it, so in the meantime God said 'It's tuff luck, you weren't living in close proximity to that event so you're going to hell!!!'

in Christianity, u just have 2 have faith, thats how it works. ive never been baptized but im still a Christain. becoming a Christian is confessing your sins and knowing that Jesus died 4 your sins. baptism is committing your life to Him and it has NOTHING to do w/ going 2 heaven.

back then, there were lots of prophets that traveled and plus, God works in mysterious ways and we dont always have 2 understand cuz its not our job 2 tell Him what 2 do.

God Bless,
Baili

 

[Crispie]

Remember this thing. God chooses who he wishes to be saved, so its not "tuff luck you werent in close proximity", its "God didnt choose you". Also Johns baptism was baptism of repentance, not of salvation.

 

[newlite]

"Also Johns baptism was baptism of repentance, not of salvation."

- yes

God chooses who he wishes to be saved, so its not "tuff luck you werent in close proximity", its "God didnt choose you".

- i completly disagree with this.

 

[xjonx]

Swdee,

Here is the simplicity of life as I understand it.


1. God created humanity with free choice
2. Humanity chose to try and live life without God's help
3. Everything went bad without God's help and so pain and destruction became
4. Thankfully God had a rescue plan. He sent a perfect Man to die in the place of all imperfect men. That perfect Man was a part of Himself-- God sent a part of Himself to die in humanities place. Jesus died in our place. So now, as it has always been, every single one of us has a choice to make. We either reject God and try and fix ourselves without His help. Or we fall face down in repentance and admit we NEED Him.


Every man alive has to make this choice.


It's like a child drowning, the child can try all they want to get on the boat themselves and will die trying; the child must ask for help. No person can get on the boat out of inner strength or doing good things. We are all helpless, we can't fix this mess we are in ourselves, WE NEED JESUS!!! This is TRUTH!!! Believe it. WE NEED GOD. All the pain and suffering is because we have turned from Him. And we continue to turn in our self righteous excuses... we will die unless we turn to Him for help.


Romans 3:23 "The wages of sin is death but the GIFT!!!!! of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ OUR LORD!!!"


Jonathan