Christianity is false, ontological proof

[razeontherock]

You seem to admit that part of Christianity is man made, and not the word of God...

How do you (christians) do the discrimination between what is word of God and what is word of man?

You need to back up here, and see that Trinity has been expressed by G-d since the beginning. Just because His people never saw that until Christ came along doesn't change the fact, neither should it be surprising that he would reveal Truth that was there all along!

 

[RDawkins]

It's easier to discern if you see the truth for yourself.

You don't need any religion for that, why being christian?

 

[Nanopants]

By curiosity, are you (christians) waiting a new convenant to bring back everything in balance?

Christianity teaches that the new covenant has already arrived.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

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[JCFantasy23]

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[CryptoLutheran]

If I exist, then my mother gave birth to me.
If my mother is dead, then I do not exist.
Therefore, I do not exist.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[NNSV]

If I exist, then my mother gave birth to me.
If my mother is dead, then I do not exist.
Therefore, I do not exist.

-CryptoLutheran

Classic case of logical fallacy, like the quote in the post.

 

[GadFly]

Dear Christians,

I am a newcomer, and agnostic atheist.

I hope that posting here will not break any rules, and if so, please do not think that it was due to bad intentions.

I recently read an ontological statement about Christianity, and would like your opinion on it.

Here it is :

"If Christianity is true, then Judaism is false
if Judaism is false, then Christianity has no basis.
So, Christianity is false."

Why would do you think such statement is false?

Thank you for your opinions. No flame, no troll. Best regards.

This statement is false because both Christians and Jews worship the same God, that would be dabar/logos, the one and only God. Many Christians and Jews have the same God but neither may not worship God as if their God is God. Atheist as long as they use ontological reasoning also have the same God as Jews and Christians. but may deny God is ontology. To whom we recognize as our God, does not count for anything either. What counts is that we confess God is and that we live a life style that reflects that confession.

An atheist like you, understands the value of ontology but you deny that God is ontology or even if there is ontology. A very complex and faulty relationship exists with reality. Your reality offers you no guidance and prohibits you from acting in harmony with creation. You are the victim of your experiences and possess a volunteer deterministic lifestyle, being totally at the mercy of your experiences.

A faithful Jewish person has ended his journey with ultimate truth. This is, of course from the Christian point of view. In this sense the Jew will not come to the knowledge of Christ. The Christian that fails to live the lifestyle of Christ, does not profit by Christ's love and truth. But, in all these things, there is only one God.

 

[GadFly]

So if I understand what you said (I will not get into the God's part as you seem to know how God behaves and I do not) :

Christianity has its roots into a religion (Judaism) which does not recognize Christianity basic principles (like Trinity, Jesus, and so on...).

So, Christianity tried to discard its roots in Judaism. Meaning that it develops its own roots (contradicting the fact it has roots in Judaism, and also the fact you said it is not a new religion).

Either it has roots in Judaism or it has not (it is a new religion), but Judaism does not take Christianity as something viable.

So, if Christianity has roots on Judaism, then the statement is true.

If Christianity has no roots in Judaism, then it is a new religion and most of what is thought about roots of Christianity into Judaism are erroneous...

So ... I don't get your point.

Mr. Dawkins, even you use ontology the same as all Christians, Jews and the rest of humanity. You fall prey to the problem we all have, In our inferences you are prone to include your own biases from your experiences;thereby you crowd out self evident information, thinking you can create your own reasoning. You do miss the point as to what God is by not understanding how big ontology, the losos, is.You did ask an otological question, did you not?

 

[GadFly]

But, according to Jewish theologists, the Christ is a false messiah.

So, if Judaism is true, as you clearly said, then Christianity is false, following the statement.

The statement, by itself, does not say that Judaism is true, it says nothing like that (it is focusing on Christianity).

If Judaism teaches that a new covenant will be held, it does not prove that Christianity is true (it, worst, brings first major theologians evidence to proving that the basis are erroneous)...

You should be saying according to several, some, many Jews. It is obvious that Christianity began among the Jews and the major Christian theologians were Jews, Paul for example.

 

[GadFly]

What? Christianity agrees that Christ is a false messiah? No, I should have misunderstood sorry.



I do not know "Judaism after BC" what is the name of that religion?



That is awesome. Jewish tehologians think that Christianity is false, but you think that it is 100% compatible?

Err... There is a problem in your equation.

There is a problem with any equation that leaves out parts of reality. The correct equation is:
Ontology + Cosmology = Metaphysics
God + Universe = Reality

 

[GadFly]

These are your own conclusions. The fact that Christianity has been built by theologians is obvious and can be deducted from the study of early Christian doctrines before the First councile of Nicee, in 325.

I also read the old Copt texts which relate the debates that were in the councile, and it is obvious, from the statements of the counciles, that some stuff like Trinity have been built by some christian thologians at the detriment of other proposals.


Ok, that is interesting, because no such thing exist as Trinity in judaism so obviously, as Trinity describe the three states of God...

One must be true while the other must be false, but not both true.

Your error is that Christ built the Scriptures.
Christ built Christianity.
Christianity is the philosophy of Christ and all the Creeds simply confirm Christ did these things and agreed what Christ taught was truth.

You oppose the wrong thing when you refer to tradition and history. Christ is our main premise. You are off topic when you fail to explain ontology. That was your question.

 

[GadFly]

You seem to admit that part of Christianity is man made, and not the word of God...

How do you (christians) do the discrimination between what is word of God and what is word of man?

It depends on whom you are speaking. The fact is that three things are in agreement or thing lack credibility. Natural reasoning, Scriptures and self evident truths, these three agree to give us truth. That is the Christian epistemology and the equation is God, pulse the universe, equal reality and truth.

 

[GadFly]

Ok, I got it: in theory, Judaism is compatible, while in practice it is not.

That makes the things more clear.

By curiosity, are you (christians) waiting a new covenant to bring back everything in balance?

You have the incorrect setting. It is not balance God seeks. God is still creating. He will finish the job of creation some time. God is the beginning and the end. That is our philosophy and not these other thing you attack with your questioning. God is our ontology, the same ontology you use.

 

[GadFly]

Mr. Dawkins, I have answered all your questions and since you could not possibly disagree with my reasoning, I do expect you to recant your atheistic beliefs. That would be the rational thing to do. It has been a pleasure discussing things with you.
Gadfly

 

[theWaris1]

It is a fallacious statement. Judaism has nothing to do with Christianity. Christ condemned the teachings of the elders which was a twisted version of the original teachings of the Torah and had went completely astray. The teachings of the Elders which became Judaism later actually went against the teachings and made tthe Tarah null and void, according to Christ.

Most modern Jews are adherents of Judaism through conversion that took place eons ago and not even blood related to the Judaeans. This deception continues to fool many.

 

[solarwave]

Here it is :

"If Christianity is true, then Judaism is false
if Judaism is false, then Christianity has no basis.
So, Christianity is false."

Why would do you think such statement is false?

Probably for the same reasons you think this is false:

"If Einstein was right, then Newton was wrong;
If Newton was wrong, then Einstein had no basis.
So, Einstien was wrong."

 

[FreeinChrist]

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