Christianity in Therapy

[APerry19]

I am a MSW grad student and am looking at becoming a clinical social worker with a basis in Christian counseling. Social Workers subscribe to the NASW code of ethics which tell us that we should be considerate of others differences and accepting of diversity. I currently work in the mental health field and have personally seen many instances where any form of Christianity being used to either explain or treat a mental illness is unthinkable. In fact I would venture to guess that if I outright told my superiors that I thought someone's mental illness could be treated with the help of God and prayer I would be fired. I am not saying by any means that this would or should be the only treatment for mental illness but as a Christian believe that faith in God and prayer can heal.The question I am posing to you is, Do you believe that it is ethically acceptable for a therapist to pray with a client or talk to them about God in relation to their problems if the person is willing to listen? If not why is this not an acceptable form of treatment also?

 

[yasic]

First a question for you:

If a therapist is Muslim or Hindu, would you approve of them praying or partaking in a ritual to Allah or Shiva with their clients?

 

[eugler]

I am a MSW grad student and am looking at becoming a clinical social worker with a basis in Christian counseling. Social Workers subscribe to the NASW code of ethics which tell us that we should be considerate of others differences and accepting of diversity. I currently work in the mental health field and have personally seen many instances where any form of Christianity being used to either explain or treat a mental illness is unthinkable. In fact I would venture to guess that if I outright told my superiors that I thought someone's mental illness could be treated with the help of God and prayer I would be fired. I am not saying by any means that this would or should be the only treatment for mental illness but as a Christian believe that faith in God and prayer can heal.The question I am posing to you is, Do you believe that it is ethically acceptable for a therapist to pray with a client or talk to them about God in relation to their problems if the person is willing to listen? If not why is this not an acceptable form of treatment also?

There was a horrible train accident in Eschede, Germany, a couple of years back. More than a hundred people died, the place was littered with injured and dead people. The Church of Scientology sent people dressed up as being part of the emergency services psychologists who usually care for survivors and the families of victims on the spot - basically easy pickings. When this caused an outrage in the public the Scientologist argued very much the same way, they said that their "faith" could help and that they were just trying to ease the suffering with their own means. I'm not saying what you are proposing is the same thing but maybe this gives you an idea of what may be wrong with your suggestion.

 

[JadeTigress]

If the person you are counseling is a strong Christian, then I don't see much of a problem. Otherwise, you shouldn't go there. When someone goes to a therapist, they don't want to be preached at.

I actually have been to a Christian counselor. First therapist (I use that term lightly) that I ever went to, because my parents made me. Why they didn't send me to an actual shrink is beyond me.

It was a horrible experience. All that guy was concerned about was making sure that I converted. So all he did was preach at me; pick out any flaws I had (real or not) and blow them up in an effort to make me feel as bad about myself as possible, hoping that I would feel bad and desperate enough to convert; and constantly telling me how all my problems are because I'm not a Christian, and if I would only convert then my life would be perfect. When I asked him if his life was perfect, he'd get mad and tell me that we weren't talking about him, we were talking about me. Which is funny, because any other time he would talk about himself and how great he was almost nonstop. He also got mad at me when I would say that I didn't see his perceived flaws in myself as flaws, and that I actually saw some of them as strengths.

The whole thing ended with me finally getting tired of being falsely berated and accused, and eventually made me snap so that instead of politely sitting there and taking it like normal, I yelled at him and cussed him out. Which completely threw him off guard, and I won.

 

[Gabe7]

You can pray for them but don't expect to be able to bill insurance for it. I don't think there are ICD-9 codes for that.

 

[JadeTigress]

You can pray for them but don't expect to be able to bill insurance for it. I don't think there are ICD-9 codes for that.

Yeah, when I went to mine, the insurance wouldn't pay for it, so my parents had to pay for that nonsense themselves. Something like $90 or $100 per session.

 

[Gabe7]

Yeah, when I went to mine, the insurance wouldn't pay for it, so my parents had to pay for that nonsense themselves. Something like $90 or $100 per session.

Per prayer session? That seems a bit steep. If its true though our friend might have a nice career ahead of her.

 

[JadeTigress]

Per prayer session? That seems a bit steep. If its true though our friend might have a nice career ahead of her.

I wouldn't call it a prayer session, exactly. It was an hour long session every week just like regular therapy, it's just the guy was only concerned with converting me so it definitely wasn't your typical therapy session.

But he did things on a sliding scale depending on income, and my parents were in the top bracket. So he charged them a bunch.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Do you believe that it is ethically acceptable for a therapist to pray with a client or talk to them about God in relation to their problems if the person is willing to listen?

Yes, if the person is already a Christian and specifically requests a religious element to counseling. Perhaps it can be mentioned briefly that this is an "option" if desired.

I'm not suggesting that you personally would be pushy about offering such treatment, but I think you should be very mindful not to give this unless it is strongly desired, not just if the patient seems passively "willing".


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[lux et lex]

I think it can definitely get in the way. I was in a situation where it was suggested to me that I was cutting myself because I was demon oppressed, and cited Mark 5. It didn't end well and I don't particularly want to talk about it other than to say now that I'm on medication I'm doing much better...their "faith healing" did even more harm.

 

[lawtonfogle]

As a therapist, it is your ethical duty to use empirically verified forms of therapy for a problem. Do any Christian therapy options fall into that?

You may use other therapies in conjunction with empirically verified ones if there is rationale to using them (the placebo effect should be enough to justify the use of prayer if the individual in therapy thinks prayer helps).

When dealing with something where they are not justifiable solutions or said solutions haven't worked, and there is no other therapist (well, therapist in reasonable traveling distance with a reasonable price tag) to help the individual with their specific problem, then you become far freer in what off the wall therapies you can use.

 

[Mling]

There was a scene in Fraiser (used to watch when I was little)...a woman called in saying she had a lot of trouble getting out of bed in the morning, and when she did, she was really tired and grumpy, dragging all morning.

Fraiser said it was because the bed is womb-like, and her difficulty getting out represented a desire to have never been born. Clearly she had deeply-rooted psychological problems, stemming from childhood trauma or trouble, and she should start a rigorous course of intensive psychotherapy to get to the root of it all---which might take years.

A visiting doctor said it sounded like hypoglycemia, and she should get protein in the morning.

She remembered that, yeah, last time she had eggs for breakfast, she felt great.

The problem with having a really strong focus on a particular pet idea, as a counselor, is that you focus on your own beliefs and desires instead of focusing on what the client is actually experiencing and actually needs.

Now, if your client wants to use prayer as a sort of meditation--and it's the client's idea-- that's something worth considering. Thinking about where you are in life, how you got there, where you'd like to go and how you'd like to get there is certainly useful, whether you call it prayer, life-coaching, therapy or anything else.

But for a counselor to start their practice thinking that Christianity is the solution, regardless of whatever the problem is can only end in a lot of dissatisfied clients, either because their real problems were ignored and their beliefs disrespected, or because they were tricked into accepting something they don't really believe when they were vulnerable.

Or, to adopt a different tone... therapy clients, disaster victims, alcoholics, children, and college freshmen who've never been away from home before---why must religions always prey on the vulnerable? Why don't churches set up missions to convert well-educated, happy people? Why do the strategies of conversion only work on people whose capacity for mature, rational thought is compromised? Do people not realize that their "missions," follow the same game-plan as con-men and pedophiles?

 

[mpok1519]

First a question for you:

If a therapist is Muslim or Hindu, would you approve of them praying or partaking in a ritual to Allah or Shiva with their clients?

This fo sho.

It is simply unprofessional; when people have real problems and real issues, no amount of prayer is going to help them. Yes, Christians believe in the healing power of prayer. Yes, this is what they BELIEVE. It is not proven to work, nor is there any evidence that prayer directly heals the body. Now, there is plenty of evidence to suggest(not prove, however) that when people feel good and have an optimistic disposition about their situation, they tend to do better. Often prayer can help someone feel better, although it is often not a genuine reflection of the condition of their overall health. Though prayer can make someone feel better, there are other avenues that have the same effect. The evidence suggests that when people are happier, they tend to heal faster and their health improves more than those who are unhappy and depressed. Sometimes prayer can make someone feel happier, and sometimes it can have the opposite effect. It really depends upon the individual in question.

But it is unprofessional; the medical world is based upon facts which are supported by evidence gained through observation. There is no evidence to suggest prayer directly has salubrious benefits, but there is evidence to prove that modern clinical practices DO have a positive effect. When one is spending time praying, they could be doing something that is more likely to have a positive impact on the patient.

Is it unethical? IMO, yes bc doctors should be doing everything within their time and power to achieve the best results for their patient; in that time one doctor was praying, another was actually doing something real to help the patient. Its unethical bc in that time the doctor was praying, he was also still charging the patient money.

You should not legally be charged by someone who is supposed to be helping you for prayer. I don't think one should legally be held accountable to pay for someone's 'services' of prayer.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

Why don't churches set up missions to convert well-educated, happy people? Why do the strategies of conversion only work on people whose capacity for mature, rational thought is compromised?

Because the "healthy, happy" people are that way because they have found the best way, mentally and spiritually, to cope with whatever life throws at them. They don't collapse like a house of cards in the face of adversity. They have a game plan for everything, and they don't freak out and become emotional when something unexpected happens; instead, they look at the situation objectively, and formulate an idea for "where to go from here".

 

[APerry19]

I appreciate your comments. I would be fine with someone of another religion going to a therapist that specifically deals with their religious believes for counseling and would encourage this if someone came into my office asking for me to practice a religion I can't. I believe that when a therapist is specifically saying that they are a Christian counselor than those that come to them would be wanting this type of undertone to the therapy. The Christian counselors around where I live are licensed MSW and the way they deal with this is that they ask permissions at the first session to pray and utilize Biblical principals where appropriate. If the person says no than they don't and even when the person says yes and is receptive to it they still utilize other therapy techniques not just talking about the Bible or assuming that praying will get the bad away. In my personal belief there are times when praying and Biblical instruction work and there are times when other forms of therapy are needed and then again there will be times when both can and should be integrated together. I am so sorry that a few of you have had bad experiences with Christian counselors. One of the first things I would suggest for anyone is that they see a LCSW and not just a Chrisitan Counselor such as a pastor if they are looking for more than just a Biblical counseling session. It is not appropriate for any Christian to be bashing their religion into someone's head and I am sorry that you had to deal with that also. I believe that Christ's love is the best testimony that I can give and strive to do this in my everyday life. I would never use my sessions counseling someone to berate or continually bring up their faults and weaknesses in relation to their Christianity. That is inappropriate. I am hoping to learn how to have a happy middleline to walk with being a Christian therapist but also a great therapist in other ways as well. I am also well aware of the billing and will probably have half of my practice devoted primarily to probono work so that I don't have to be billing and my clients won't have to pay for what they really want and need. Here is another more specific question, Why do some people find it acceptable to use spirituality or other religion in counseling or stress reducing techniques such as yoga and meditation but are adamently against someone wanting to use their Christian faith to help them get through a tough time in their life?

 

[lawtonfogle]

Or, to adopt a different tone... therapy clients, disaster victims, alcoholics, children, and college freshmen who've never been away from home before---why must religions always prey on the vulnerable? Why don't churches set up missions to convert well-educated, happy people? Why do the strategies of conversion only work on people whose capacity for mature, rational thought is compromised? Do people not realize that their "missions," follow the same game-plan as con-men and pedophiles?

You mean child molesters, right?

And I have often times asked the elders at my church how in the world can a child be mature enough to make as large of a life changing decision as salvation, but not mature enough to do even basic things like drive, own a debit card, or marry (which when compared to dedicating yourself to a religion you are willing to die for, it pretty minor). I point out that if a child approached the church wanting to get married, the responses would range from the child being molested, being tricked, being coerced by the parents, or at the very least, being too immature to make such a choice. But they can walk the aisle?

The result of the question is always the same, me trying not to laugh as they stumble around and finally give some poorly thought out excuse. My favorite is the spiritual maturity is different from mental maturity (I then point out that the mentally handicapped can still be spiritually mature thus if they don't declare salvation, perhaps the are going to hell, or perhaps atheist are so spiritually immature that they haven't reached the age of accountability, or that marriage should be about spiritual maturity to trust God and let Him lead a couple, so we should still allow a spiritually mature child to marry). Normally after pointing the flaws a second time, I just get ignored.

 

[lawtonfogle]

This fo sho.

It is simply unprofessional; when people have real problems and real issues, no amount of prayer is going to help them.

No true. When one believes in prayer, it can have, at the very least, a placebo effect. Much like repeating mantras daily can help one self (things like "I am smart, I can do this, I will persist on." or such).

 

[Paulos23]

Sounds like you have a good handle on the situation, I think you will do fine advertising yourself as a Christian Counselor. I know even in Seattle there is a market for that.

Here is another more specific question, Why do some people find it acceptable to use spirituality or other religion in counseling or stress reducing techniques such as yoga and meditation but are adamantly against someone wanting to use their Christian faith to help them get through a tough time in their life?

My distrust is from experience, mainly my Roman Catholic childhood. You confess your sins, say your prayers, and then don't talk about it. Never really helped with the problems I was going through. Same thing with yoga and meditation, never got any benefit from it. It wasn't until I took a workshop on dealing with anxiety that I got the basic tools I needed to deal with stress and then I could work on my problems.

So for me, it is all mumbo jumbo. Sure, you may feel better and less stress praying (either because you trick yourself or it does work), but that doesn't mean the original issue isn't dealt with. And that is not something that someone else can solve for you, you have to work it out (though sometimes people do need help).

 

[keith99]

Yes, if the person is already a Christian and specifically requests a religious element to counseling. Perhaps it can be mentioned briefly that this is an "option" if desired.

I'm not suggesting that you personally would be pushy about offering such treatment, but I think you should be very mindful not to give this unless it is strongly desired, not just if the patient seems passively "willing".


eudaimonia,

Mark

You nailed it.

All I can add is that care must be taken. Those being counciled are in a vunerable position and it is all too easy for councilers to push their own faith upon the vunerable.

But for someone who already believes prayer can be a comfort. A comfort can be important. Muscle spasms are a rather nasty physical problem, in some cases just getting the muscle to relax allows the body to heal itself. I think the same can be true for some mental conditions. For some believers the comfort of prayer can get past some barriers and allow counciling to be more effective.

Pushing prayer as a cure is almost sure to eventually limit progress.

 

[Mling]

I appreciate your comments. I would be fine with someone of another religion going to a therapist that specifically deals with their religious believes for counseling and would encourage this if someone came into my office asking for me to practice a religion I can't. I believe that when a therapist is specifically saying that they are a Christian counselor than those that come to them would be wanting this type of undertone to the therapy. The Christian counselors around where I live are licensed MSW and the way they deal with this is that they ask permissions at the first session to pray and utilize Biblical principals where appropriate. If the person says no than they don't and even when the person says yes and is receptive to it they still utilize other therapy techniques not just talking about the Bible or assuming that praying will get the bad away. In my personal belief there are times when praying and Biblical instruction work and there are times when other forms of therapy are needed and then again there will be times when both can and should be integrated together. I am so sorry that a few of you have had bad experiences with Christian counselors. One of the first things I would suggest for anyone is that they see a LCSW and not just a Chrisitan Counselor such as a pastor if they are looking for more than just a Biblical counseling session. It is not appropriate for any Christian to be bashing their religion into someone's head and I am sorry that you had to deal with that also. I believe that Christ's love is the best testimony that I can give and strive to do this in my everyday life. I would never use my sessions counseling someone to berate or continually bring up their faults and weaknesses in relation to their Christianity. That is inappropriate. I am hoping to learn how to have a happy middleline to walk with being a Christian therapist but also a great therapist in other ways as well. I am also well aware of the billing and will probably have half of my practice devoted primarily to probono work so that I don't have to be billing and my clients won't have to pay for what they really want and need. Here is another more specific question, Why do some people find it acceptable to use spirituality or other religion in counseling or stress reducing techniques such as yoga and meditation but are adamently against someone wanting to use their Christian faith to help them get through a tough time in their life?

I second keith: if you're starting off with the idea that Christianity is a) one lens, of many, that b) you may look through, sometimes, along with the other viewpoints you keep in your well-stocked took-kit, c) if the client requests it, then it sounds like you're keeping the right perspective.

Personally, when I've used meditation, all I've done is pick a goal, and the steps I want to take to achieve it, then self-hypnotized and focused on that goal and those steps in order to increase my own motivation and try to break through my mental blocks. in short--I'm in charge of myself, both in the sense that I'm choosing my own goals, and in the sense that I'm taking responsibility for making sure I meet them.

Yoga, in the Western world, is just a form of exercise. On it's own, it's not any kind of life-enhancer and has nothing to do with religion or spirituality. If somebody uses it because, for them, it reduces stress and helps them focus, then cool--again, though, it's them picking their own goals, and them making a decision to use a particular tool because it fits with their own particular needs and helps them meet those goals.

Christianity cannot be compared to yoga or meditation. Yoga and mediation are tools that people can pick up and decide to use, or not, to work toward their pre-chosen goals. On their own, the tools make no judgment about what are appropriate goals. The same cannot be said for Christianity, or any other religion. People don't always make the decision to follow a religion or not--often times, the person's parents decide that they will follow it, before that person has any ability to understand the decision. Religions have things to say about what goals a person ought to choose, and whether the person chose the religion or not--whether that particular branch of that religion is conservative, liberal, extremist or what have you-- it will always apply some sort of pressure to choose goals that the religious culture approves of.

Mentally combine those last two points: the religious system pressures toward certain goals, which may or may not be good for the person, and the person didn't even choose the religion in the first place. This is why I'm very wary of Christian counseling.

I said in my last post--I'm all for any technique that helps a person figure out what their own personal goals are, and focus on the steps they need to take to get there. If you want to pray over those decisions, sure, go for it. If you are doing that, and calling it Christian counseling, ok, no problem. Basically, that's just counseling, between a few people who happen to be Christian, and are speaking that language.

The problems come when prayer is used as a solution in and of itself; or when religious viewpoints are used to prescribe what a client's goals ought to be, instead of figuring out what they are; or when religious language is used to gloss over real problems, or to provide meaningless "advice" which does nothing but inspire guilt, ("let go, and let God.")