Christianity (In a Nutshell)?

Sabertooth

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This repose does not address my point(s).
It does answer them, if only obliquely, because you are asking them in the wrong paradigm. You are looking to exploit what you perceive as a "loophole" regarding "belief" that you might be absolved of your own responsibilities in the Salvation process. It is very clever, forensically speaking, but it does nothing to relieve you of your "gasoline-soaked" condition.
 
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com7fy8

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If I'm somehow w/o 'sin',
You can't be without sin. You might know of certain things the Bible says are a no-no; and you might not do those things. But there is more than the obvious sins that people might know about.

For one example, a lot of people know that God's word says adultery is wrong. But for us in Jesus, we know that adultery can mean anything that is not faithful to our Groom Jesus. For example, arguing and complaining and unforgiveness are anti-love; so if we have an affair with arguing or complaining or unforgiveness, we are cheating on our Groom Jesus.

So, the standard of what is sin becomes more personal with God, once we get started with Christ. More and more, it has to do with not only our outward behavior, but how our character is becoming . . . so we are loving and can not give in to anti-love feelings and emotions and thinking and imagining.
but do not believe in the existence of a resurrected Jesus,
It is not about only what reports we believe. We trust in Jesus. We learn how to submit to Him and share with Him and obey Him, more and more loving any and all people like Jesus on the cross has loved us. Jesus is our example, and this example is required of us. So, sin is anything in us that is against following Christ's example.

If I commit 'sin', but believe in a resurrected Jesus, it is still possible to enter heaven.
God is not only keeping a record on us. But children of God are being deeply corrected, so we become like Jesus and so the sinning is done away as we become more His way and loving like Him.

1. Hence, do the concepts of 'sin' even matter at all?
I think I have offered how there is "sin" which has to do with what things we should do or not do. But also there are things which have to do with our character.

A person might be able to keep from doing some thing like adultery which seems like an obvious sin. But only with Jesus can we get deep and real correction so we are loving, instead of arguing and complaining and being unforgiving.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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If I'm somehow w/o 'sin', but do not believe in the existence of a resurrected Jesus, it is not possible to enter heaven.
I'm not understanding your OP here, cvanwey. Sorry. Your entire first line is incoherent.
 
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cvanwey

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God's Justice is Perfect.

Since human beings are flawed, then how were (you) able to discern this conclusion?


Many people do not like it, that is their choice, and if they do not believe, they perish, regardless of if they like it or not.

Okay, maybe we are starting to get somewhere, very slightly....

It would seem to suggest you are saying that God does not like earnest unbelievers. And rather than at least demonstrating existence, in a way where such people could at least no longer deny His sheer existence, He instead chucks them into Hell, or other, forever... right?

So basically, He eternally condemns some people for an action which is out of their control. ---> Belief


This is Perfectly Executed Judgement and Perfect Justice as Accomplished by the One Holy Perfect Sovereign Creator,
Who also created a simply way for anyone to be saved (in Christ Jesus), even though no one deserves to be saved, apart from Christ Jesus.

Regardless of being 'deserving', which is NOT my gripe, it is instead that God sends the one to hell who do not earnestly believe the claim/story. It's the lack in belief to the story line, which remains the beginning catalyst between heaven/hell. Seems a little odd, for this to be the linchpin.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I think it is best to get saved and immersed in Jesus' Name first, THEN if there are still any questions ask them. It is (or appears) much safe and more expedient this way. Andrew Murray reported this in one of his encounters with someone who said they wanted their questions answered FIRST, and THEN they would be immersed. He suggested or asked why not get immersed first, and then all their questions would be answered. So the guy changed his mind and repented of his sins and confessed his faith in Jesus and was immersed in Jesus' Name -

.... a little while later, Andrew asked the man about all the many questions he had had before being immersed....

.... the man exclaimed - excited and joyously and surprised - ALL the questions are gone - as if they evaporated ! He had no more questions. Jesus was the answer to all of them.
 
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cvanwey

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I'm not understanding your OP here, cvanwey. Sorry. Your entire first line is incoherent.

Let me clarify...

I could somehow be w/o sin. But if I don't believe in a resurrection, it is impossible to enter into heaven.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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It would seem to suggest you are saying that God does not like earnest unbelievers. And rather than at least demonstrating existence, in a way where such people could at least no longer deny His sheer existence, He instead chucks them into Hell, or other, forever... right?
No.
No.
and No.

ALL CREATION is EVIDENCE of HIS BEING. So much so, that anyone who denies it is condemned WITHOUT AN EXCUSE. (the condemned have no excuse)
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Let me clarify...

I could somehow be w/o sin. But if I don't believe in a resurrection, it is impossible to enter into heaven.

You could "somehow" be without sin? Ok. In which setting, scenario or philosophical system will this be the case, because we both know that in this instance, you'd have to be talking about something other than Christianity. So, the whole hypothetical...melts away if you're then going to try to impress it into service up against the entirety of Christian Theology.

Alright. I'm done here on this one, cvanwey.
 
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Sabertooth

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I could somehow be w/o sin...
That animal doesn't exist.

“There is none righteous, no, not one;
There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.” Romans 3:10-12 NKJV

"...for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,..." Romans 3:23
 
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2PhiloVoid

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You could "somehow" be without sin? Ok. In which setting, scenario or philosophical system will this be the case, because we both know that in this instance, you'd have to be talking about something other than Christianity. So, the whole hypothetical...melts away if you're then going to try to impress it into service up against the entirety of Christian Theology.

Alright. I'm done here on this one, cvanwey.

tenor.gif
 
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Halbhh

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If I'm somehow w/o 'sin', but do not believe in the existence of a resurrected Jesus, it is not possible to enter heaven.

If I commit 'sin', but believe in a resurrected Jesus, it is still possible to enter heaven.


1. Hence, do the concepts of 'sin' even matter at all?

2. Also, is earnest lack in belief itself considered an 'immoral' action to God? Isn't unbelief instead an amoral action/event/cognitive construct/other --- regardless of what we subjectively define as moral/immoral (or) sin/no sin?


And last, seems as though, at least from the Christian perspective anyways, that the lack in belief of Jesus deems an eternal separation from God... To instead dwell in a possible eternal place of 'discomfort'. What if the 'soul' wishes to repent, in a manor which might please God after human death? The human's fate seems sealed at human death ---> 'forever'.

3. Is this how God's 'justice' works?

You need shorter answers possibly? Keeping in mind the 1rst 2 propositions of the OP post are refuted by 1rst John as shown in post #2 and just above in post 12, here are short answers you can see from 1rst John:

"1. Hence, do the concepts of 'sin' even matter at all?"
-- Yes, profoundly so, as you see in 1rst John chapter 1-2 as above, for instance (and in many other places in the New Testament). After being a believer, to be cleansed of any subsequent serious sins one must confess them. Without that cleansing, one will become alienated from God, and unless one eventually turns like the prodigal of Luke chapter 15, unless that turn and confession happens, the outcome would be the "second death" in the Lake of Fire. So, sin is of very great significance.

"2. Also, is earnest lack in belief itself considered an 'immoral' action to God? Isn't unbelief instead an amoral action/event/cognitive construct/other --- regardless of what we subjectively define as moral/immoral (or) sin/no sin?"

That depends on just what you're disbelieving in precisely.... If merely for instance some random theology viewpoint one might hear a lot in some church (and some other such in other churches), that's of little import to disbelieve in pretty often. One cannot disbelieve in Christ without ever really getting to real gospel message (regardless of if one thinks one heard it).
It would mean something to really get it (many never have) just what Christ said, and has done for us, and then to reject that -- a far more significant thing, which actually isn't so common I think. Most just never really got the real message, cause it's not even known in some churches, or poorly communicated in many also.

"3. Is this how God's 'justice' works?"

That's directly answered in Romans chapter 2, verses 6-16. Which begins:
Romans 2:6 God "will repay each one according to his deeds."

See how serious that is even with just the first verse?
 
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cvanwey

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No.
No.
and No.

ALL CREATION is EVIDENCE of HIS BEING. So much so, that anyone who denies it is condemned WITHOUT AN EXCUSE. (the condemned have no excuse)

Using all CAPS does not merit your response 'sound' ;) You continue not to follow along... Thus, I will just humor you, and debunk the responses you decide to send...

Even if someone like myself were to deem 'creationism', due to the 'watchmaker argument' or other, we have many other claimed agent(s) out there which could be responsible.

Thus, your response does not suffice. Let me demonstrate....:

'I think the universe was created by Xenu.' Thus, even if I'm a 'creationist', I believe in a different god than yours. And I don't have to remind you of one of the all time most used verses in Christianity:


16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

So I will again ask.... Is lack in belief to a very specific God a sin?
 
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cvanwey

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My entire point is amazingly simple....

Under the umbrella of Christianity, 'sin' is irrelevant. "Belief" is the starting point.

Second simple point. God seems to ultimately and eternally condemn people for a behavior that we most likely cannot control.

Seems odd, doesn't it?
 
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2PhiloVoid

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My entire point is amazingly simple....

Under the umbrella of Christianity, 'sin' is irrelevant. "Belief" is the starting point.
Is it? By the way, is this an Analytic set of statements, or a Synthetic one?

Second simple point. God seems to ultimately and eternally condemn people for a behavior that we most likely cannot control.
No, stop right there! YOU don't get to MAKE points that you haven't actually won.


Seems odd, doesn't it?
Yes, it does seem odd that you resort to undignified and conceptually misconstrued statements to attempt to assert some supposed conundrum that in all essence of Christian Theology doesn't really exist.

Maybe you just need to stop on this OP thread while your behind and stick to the Numbers 31 thread, or something. I don't know.
 
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Swan7

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If I'm somehow w/o 'sin', but do not believe in the existence of a resurrected Jesus, it is not possible to enter heaven.

Unbelief is also a sin, but not unforgivable if asked: Mark 9:24
If one does not believe in Jesus Christ, that one is not saved and cannot enter into heaven. As shown in the verse above, we need Jesus' help to overcome our sin.

If I commit 'sin', but believe in a resurrected Jesus, it is still possible to enter heaven.

If one commits sin in ignorance, a brother or sister in Christ will correct the behaviour in love. Much like a parent does with a child when doing something they shouldn't be doing/saying. Such is the life an early or young believer in Christ. Christianity is a process.

1. Hence, do the concepts of 'sin' even matter at all?

Yes, sin matters because it separates us from God. If one sins willfully, knowing the truth - that one has condemned themselves.
Hebrews 10:26-39

And last, seems as though, at least from the Christian perspective anyways, that the lack in belief of Jesus deems an eternal separation from God... To instead dwell in a possible eternal place of 'discomfort'. What if the 'soul' wishes to repent, in a manor which might please God after human death? The human's fate seems sealed at human death ---> 'forever'.

Jesus says this to the Pharisees: John 8:21-24
There's also a contrast to this in: Revelation 1:7

There's a reason why Jesus Christ died for all our sake and gave us the hope of the resurrection when He rose again. It's so we can repent while on this earth and while on this earth we choose Life or Death.

3. Is this how God's 'justice' works?

I'm not sure what you're asking here. Do you mean to ask about Jesus Christ's justice at the cross for all who come to Him?
 
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cvanwey

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Is it? By the way, is this an Analytic set of statement, or Synthetic one?

Yes it is. Amazingly simple.... And it's neither.... It's axiomatic, according to 'Biblical claims' anyways:

John 3:16-18

If you do NOT follow the said verses above, no amount of 'goodness' matters. It is NOT possible to enter such a claimed kingdom. And if you are not perfect, but adhere to the above verses, you still have a shot.

**** Not too much in the way of 'analytics' required ****


No, stop right there! YOU don't get to MAKE points that you haven't actually won.

Does this mean you are going to make a case that we CAN control what we believe?


Let's test this real fast....

Make yourself believe you are a billionaire, without 'just cause.' Make yourself believe in Xenu, without 'just cause.'

Therefore, "God seems to ultimately and eternally condemn people for a behavior/other that we most likely cannot control."

(i.e.) John 3:16-18 for starters


Yes, it does seem odd that you resort to undignified and conceptually misconstrued statements to attempt to assert some supposed conundrum that in all essence of Christian Theology doesn't really exist.

Maybe you just need to stop on this OP thread while your behind and stick to the Numbers 31 thread, or something. I don't know.

Thanks for that. Please see above....

And furthermore, you said you were done with that thread. Thus, I'm not sure why you would care ;)
 
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