Christianity & Evolution Are Compatible...A Reflection

[Amoeba]

That is because your paraphrasing of what I said is false.

You can not escape from the implication of your argument. You said,

"However, the Genesis account as a literal truth is not ridiculous to a Christian who beleives that nothing is impossible for God."

Which implies that this is exactly what you believe.

hen you misrepresent what I say, it does not deserve any response.

Again, the implication of your argument. Do you believe in a literal genesis story or not?

Well your lot is not doing a very good job of teaching evolution. From these few references it is showing that roughly 50% of people beleive in creation instead of evolution.

And that is evidence for.....what? Nothing...Invalid argument...

APPEAL TO THE MAJORITY

An argumentum ad populum (Latin: "appeal to the people"), in logic, is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or all people believe it; it alleges, "If many believe so, it is so."It is logically fallacious because the mere fact that a belief is widely held is not necessarily a guarantee that the belief is correct; if the belief of any individual can be wrong, then the belief held by multiple persons can also be wrong.

Perhaps instead of forcing evolution down the throat of High School students as 'fact', teach them proper science like you said "Critical analysis implies an objective, impartial point of view"

If Evolution builds such a strong case of truth as you claim, then there is no doubt that the High School students will come to accept Evolution as fact.

Otherwise you are leaving them open later to preachers indoctrinating them with creation rubbish, and as they have never been taught to critically analyse they get brainwashed.

See its all your fault for not teaching them in the science classroom properly in the first place.

Let this sink in for a minute....

"Science is very much all about critical analysis. Creationism sure isn't that critical though. Critical analysis implies an objective, impartial point of view, something which creationists obviously don't fit that characteristic. Creationists already know the answer. That is not impartiality or objective. Additionally, science itself provides the means of critical analysis through peer-reviewed research, and scientific method. Creationism relies neither on peer-reviewed research, nor, scientific method, and so it is not a valid critique of evolution at all."

You should get out of this the fact that creationism is the farthest thing from a critical analysis of evolution. The notion that creationism and evolution should be taught side by side as if creationism is a valid scientific theory, is laughable, ridiculous, indoctrination, and a disgrace to science, if that were to occur. If you want creationism taught, then teach it for what it is. A religious point of view. An optional comparative religion class seems to be the proper atmosphere for such a topic.

 

[marktheblake]

Which implies that this is exactly what you believe.

It does not imply "I believe in a literal genesis story because nothing is impossible for God."

You cannot draw any implication whatsoever WHY I believe, from anything I have said, because I have not said why.

And that is evidence for.....what? Nothing...Invalid argument...

Evidence that your beloved science is failing at teaching evolution in schools, if 50% or thereabouts disagree with evolution.

APPEAL TO THE MAJORITY

Where? I did not "appeal to the majority" at all, so you fail for the second time.

In fact if you carefully inspect the results, then you might just find evolution is in the majority - just.

Science is very much all about critical analysis

Good, teach that in high school then.

 

[Amoeba]

It does not imply "I believe in a literal genesis story because nothing is impossible for God."

You cannot draw any implication whatsoever WHY I believe, from anything I have said, because I have not said why.

"However, the Genesis account as a literal truth is not ridiculous to a Christian who beleives that nothing is impossible for God."

This quote very much implies that you believe in a literal genesis story because you believe nothing is impossible for God. I don't know how you could have meant anything else.

Evidence that your beloved science is failing at teaching evolution in schools, if 50% or thereabouts disagree with evolution.

Where? I did not "appeal to the majority" at all, so you fail for the second time.

Again, who cares? That is evidence for absolutely nothing.

In fact if you carefully inspect the results, then you might just find evolution is in the majority - just.

Once again, popular opinion is a useless argument as to the truthfulness of evolution.

Good, teach that in high school then.

It is taught. It's called the scientific method. Couple that with peer-reviewed research. Something lacking in creationism.

You seem alarmingly hostile towards science as if it is being used as a weapon against your religious beliefs. That is very unfortunate. Science isn't involved in religion because religion isn't testable. Why can't you reconcile with this?

 

[marktheblake]

I don't know how you could have meant anything else.

Well you are just going to have to live with the fact that you don't know.

Again, who cares? That is evidence for absolutely nothing.

You do, because you keep going on about how fantastic Science is.

Once again, popular opinion is a useless argument as to the truthfulness of evolution.

Was not presented as an argument to the truthfulness of evolution at all. Once again you have deliberately misrepresented me. That is either arrogance or ignorance.

It is taught. It's called the scientific method.

If evolution is such a fact and its taught so well why do so many people disagree with it?

 

[uke2se]

If evolution is such a fact and its taught so well why do so many people disagree with it?

I go into several reasons in my post that you conveniently skipped. It has to do with religious sabotage of education, early indoctrination leading to Morton's Demon, and - I think we must conceed - a poor educational system. It needs to be reformed, and (some) teachers needs to be given a proper understanding of science in general and certain scientific theories, as well as the means and ability to teach it to children.

 

[marktheblake]

I go into several reasons in my post that you conveniently skipped.

It is a good answer, doesn't skipping it imply acceptance (some would claim that)

I thank you for actually replying in context to something I said - it's a refreshing change.

It needs to be reformed, and (some) teachers needs to be given a proper understanding of science in general and certain scientific theories, as well as the means and ability to teach it to children.

Agreed. From my recollection of High School Science, we were not taught 'critical analysis' of anything. We were just told, thats the problem for the evolution proponents.

If one is just 'told' something, they have no grounding in that area of knowledge.

 

[uke2se]

It is a good answer, doesn't skipping it imply acceptance (some would claim that)

In that case, my apologies.

Agreed. From my recollection of High School Science, we were not taught 'critical analysis' of anything. We were just told, thats the problem for the evolution proponents.

If one is just 'told' something, they have no grounding in that area of knowledge.

The thing is, though, it all comes back to how a child's mind works. It's fairly pointless to talk about critical analysis before high school, and even then you need to be very careful. The scientific method should always be taught to children, but it can be confusing sometimes. I agree, though, that more effort should be made to allow and encourage children to question things.

Some things are facts, though, and should be taught as such. Evolution is such a fact. The theory of evolution - that is, the model that explains how evolution works - should be taught at high school level, but the scientific fact of evolution - that animals adopt to their environment by changing - should be provided early.

Another fact is the age of the earth. Not the exact age, mind you, as that might change as we get a better understanding, but that it is several billion years old. There's no escaping that fact, so it should be taught.

In short, children should be taught to ask questions, when it comes to science, but also when it comes to religion. If a child is allowed to grow up free of any dogmas, he/she can then chose to dedicate his/her life to a diety as an adult, or he/she can chose not to.

 

[AV1611VET]

In short, children should be taught to ask questions, when it comes to science, but also when it comes to religion.

I don't mind children asking questions:

And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.

And I don't mind adults asking questions:

And when the queen of Sheba heard of the fame of Solomon concerning the name of the LORD, she came to prove him with hard questions.

 

[uke2se]

I don't mind children asking questions:And I don't mind adults asking questions:

It also means questioning dogma.

 

[AV1611VET]

It also means questioning dogma.

I think Sunday School should be a time of educating people with at least the basics, and a question-and-answer session once a month certainly wouldn't hurt anything.

 

[uke2se]

I think Sunday School should be a time of educating people with at least the basics, and a question-and-answer session once a month certainly wouldn't hurt anything.

Not what I'm talking about at all. The questions I mean aren't of the "What did Noah eat on the ark" kind, but rather "If the flood really happened, how come we don't see any evidence of it" and "What is more likely? That the flood happened and God covered up the evidence, or that the flood didn't happen, and what we read in the bible are just stories?"

You know, questioning the actual validity of the dogma.

 

[marktheblake]

I think Sunday School should be .....

Thats Brilliant!

Get 'em young, and get 'em first.

 

[Hespera]

markthe sez....
If evolution is such a fact and its taught so well why do so many people disagree with it? QUOTE/////////////////////



hespera sez... this is a question about American public education, not about evolution as such. One could make a list of the things that American school kids dont know, dont believe, and never heard of in history, math, economics, literataure, etc..... you know? its shameful and dangerous for the whole o[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]ry.

Evolution being central to the understanding of all living systems, it is of course taught in China. Oddly enough, there isnt a problem there for people to grasp the concepts.

 

[marktheblake]

you know? its shameful and dangerous for the whole o[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]ry.

I think that means you said a naughty word.

Evolution being central to the understanding of all living systems, it is of course taught in China. Oddly enough, there isnt a problem there for people to grasp the concepts.

I wouldn't say that was odd for China, as they are indoctrinated as Athiests there.

 

[Hespera]

markthe...
Originally Posted by AV1611VET

I think Sunday School should be .....
​

Thats Brilliant!

Get 'em young, and get 'em first. Quote//////////////


this is so sad. i saw a photo of this little muslim girl one time, she is kneeling on a prayer rug, wearing whatever those clothes are called. Poor kid, she doesnt know anything, she has no choice. It broke my hear to see what they were doing to her.

Little children are programmed to just believe whatever they are told by their parents.
"faith' i guess it is. it puts a tremendous responsibility on parents to teach them well.
They need to start by teaching themselves well, a responsibility that theocreos have totally ignored, to their shame and disgrace. and to the detriment of their kids.

Get 'em young and make em into good little commies or nazis or scientologists or or or. Its so sad.

 

[AV1611VET]

Not what I'm talking about at all. The questions I mean aren't of the "What did Noah eat on the ark" kind, but rather "If the flood really happened, how come we don't see any evidence of it" and "What is more likely? That the flood happened and God covered up the evidence, or that the flood didn't happen, and what we read in the bible are just stories?"

You know, questioning the actual validity of the dogma.

Questions like that are good for the older ones, say the teens.

I'd love to field a question-and-answer session like that, myself.

(With adults, that is.)

I think those are good questions that need to be addressed, and should, in my opinion, be incorporated into the teaching curriculum.

 

[AV1611VET]

Thats Brilliant!

Get 'em young, and get 'em first.

--- Train up a child in the way he should go...

 

[Hespera]

markthe sez....
Originally Posted by Hespera

you know? its shameful and dangerous for the whole o[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]ry.
​

I think that means you said a naughty word.

Evolution being central to the understanding of all living systems, it is of course taught in China. Oddly enough, there isnt a problem there for people to grasp the concepts.
​

I wouldn't say that was odd for China, as they are indoctrinated as Athiests there.QUOTE//////////////


oh my.... I think when i said its shameful for the whole "country" i left out a letter....

that aside, do you get my point that its not about evolution as such, but that the ed system in general stinks? its no wonder that american students dont know dont believe and never heard of so many things.

Also... about indoctination. no, i dont think that is it at all. Of course indoctrination is part of of any cOuntry's ecuaiton. But you know, teaching math is not indoctrination, teaching engineering isnt ideology. Same with teaching biology. If some Christians think there is, or if some Bantus think teaching base 1o math is a sin, well, that doesnt make it so. its not about atheism either. Lots of Christians understand evolution, and lots of religions dont think they have to argue against evoltuion.

 

[uke2se]

Questions like that are good for the older ones, say the teens.

I'd love to field a question-and-answer session like that, myself.

(With adults, that is.)

I think those are good questions that need to be addressed, and should, in my opinion, be incorporated into the teaching curriculum.

If dogma is to be taught to young children (which I don't think), then questioning dogma needs to be taught as well. It all boils down to children being programmed to accept the word of authority figures, and religious dogma, as opposed to science, starts by teaching children NOT to question "the word of God". This leads to grown up fundamentalists and creationists.

If Sunday "school" was only open for adult people, it is my belief that very few people would be fundamentalists. Creationism and fundamentalism only survives because children are indoctrinated with their filth. The basic tenets of creationism are so stupid that an adult with an open mind would discard it in a heart-beat.

 

[uke2se]

On the topic of the state of public education in the states, if this in any way resembles how evolution is taught in public schools, I am surprised that more people don't accept it:

*warning: slightly offensive language*

YouTube - Evolution Explained: South Park Exposes Stupidity Of Creationists