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Christianity & Evolution Are Compatible...A Reflection

Hespera

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Not a single innocent among these i guess...

And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle. And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead."
(Exodus 12:29-30)

"Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass." (I Samuel 15:2-3)

"And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain." (Deuteronomy 2:34)

"And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Hesbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city. But all the cattle, and the spoil of the cities we took for a prey to ourselves." (Deuteronomy 3:6-7)

"Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." (Numbers 31:16-18)

i particularly like this last one. how do you suppose they found out which among the "women children" ( the ones wailing in terror and horror, as their parents and siblings were murdered before them), how do you suppose they found out which ones to keep for themselves? A questionnaire, I suppose, strictly voluntary.

Nope, not a trace of an innocent person killed or even unfairly scolded in all of that.
 
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AV1611VET

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Does God enjoy having people sacrificed to him?
I could find other verses where God commands the murder of children.
These people were not sacrificed to God --- with one exception (the virgins), these people should not even be standing.

When Moses surveyed the spoils, and saw human captives, he was mad because there were men, women and children among the spoils.

He then had them kill all males and all the non-virgins --- leaving 32,000 women to be handled according to verse 18, which reads as follows:
Numbers 31:18 said:
But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Of these 32,000 women, they were placed in the custody of the children of Israel according to the following mathematical formula:

  1. Those who actually fought in the battle: 16,000 (one half).
  2. Those who stayed behind: 16,000 (one half).
Then, of those two groups of 16,000 women, God laid a tribute on the Israelites as follows:

  1. Those who actually fought in the battle: 1 in 500.
  2. Those who stayed behind: 1 in 50.
Note that those who stayed behind had to surrender more than those who actually fought.

This means they surrendered the women up as follows:

  1. Those who actually fought in the battle: 16,000/500 = 32.
  2. Those who stayed behind: 16,000/50 = 320.
This made a total of 352 women that had to serve in the Temple area in some capacity, in what we could call today community service.

But again, by a direct command of Moses, these womens' lives were spared --- not sacrificed.
 
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Hespera

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The steadfast defense and justification of the endless slaughters in the OT is so like the attitude of some of my relatives in China. Hard line old Maoists, they really think that the tens of millions who died, who were killed in all the horrible ways by the communists, that there was not an innocent among them.

No doubt those who served Stalin and Pol Pot likewise worshiped Authority, and proudly carried out the most grim and inhuman acts.

I see that there are some who call themselves Christain... surely they are not tho...who pray for a Sign to tell them to commence to kill the evil ones like me.

Im not one to pray but if i did, it would be for the enlightenment of people who today glorify, justfiy, stand ready to carry out any sickening act of barbarity if the correct authority directs it. Id pray for us all to be delivered from these people.
 
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AV1611VET

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The steadfast defense and justification of the endless slaughters in the OT is so like the attitude of some of my relatives in China. Hard line old Maoists, they really think that the tens of millions who died, who were killed in all the horrible ways by the communists, that there was not an innocent among them.
Wasn't that a pity?
No doubt those who served Stalin and Pol Pot likewise worshiped Authority, and proudly carried out the most grim and inhuman acts.
Wasn't that a pity?
I see that there are some who call themselves Christain... surely they are not tho...who pray for a Sign to tell them to commence to kill the evil ones like me.
Musn't hang around those, Hespera.

Standing within earshot of someone praying for your demise isn't cool.
Im not one to pray but if i did, it would be for the enlightenment of people who today glorify, justfiy, stand ready to carry out any sickening act of barbarity if the correct authority directs it.
Sickening acts of barbarity are against the law here in America; therefore you'll not find any "correct authority" sanctioning it.
Id pray for us all to be delivered from these people.
As an example, this Christian nation levied 10 major changes to the U.S. Constitution --- called the Bill of Rights --- that make pogroms illegal on U.S. soil.

As I like to put it: JERUSALEM !
 
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Hespera

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Well, AV, I do think that christian thinking did well in its contribution to the constitution. i was getting along with what you said pretty well and you didnt quite spoil it with that "jerusalem' bit.

I hope the constitution will in fact protect us from the excesses and horrors that have swept thru other societies. They may well have thought they were safe with their laws and traditions, i couldnt say for sure.

I hope all who call themselves christians, and the ones who dont too will be strong enough to resist the people we have here in this country who would make good little Maoists. And are no doubt awaiting a Call from somewhere.

The mind set of someone who would steadfastly defend justify and rationalize the barbarity in the OT seems..to me... the mind set of the Maoists, the people who answer the Call. i hope I am wrong, but i dont think i am.

My favorite amendment is the second one.
 
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AV1611VET

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Well, AV, I do think that christian thinking did well in its contribution to the constitution. i was getting along with what you said pretty well and you didnt quite spoil it with that "jerusalem' bit.

I hope the constitution will in fact protect us from the excesses and horrors that have swept thru other societies. They may well have thought they were safe with their laws and traditions, i couldnt say for sure.

I hope all who call themselves christians, and the ones who dont too will be strong enough to resist the people we have here in this country who would make good little Maoists. And are no doubt awaiting a Call from somewhere.

The mind set of someone who would steadfastly defend justify and rationalize the barbarity in the OT seems..to me... the mind set of the Maoists, the people who answer the Call. i hope I am wrong, but i dont think i am.

My favorite amendment is the second one.
What's this fixation with Maoists you seem to have?

Are you referring to those who followed Mao Tse Tung, or whomever?

I thought that went out in the 1960's?

I think the Beatles said it best:
But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao,
You ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow.
I've never met the guy, don't know who he is, what he stands for, or anything; but we Occidents have our own version of being hunted by Maoists.

We usually say Napoleon has spies out to get us.
 
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Amoeba

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we 'copying errors'?

'Mutants' from the ocean?

God wouldn't put something into operation that relied on 'copying errors'.

Who are you to tell God how to create? You are nothing. We go back to one of my original points. You put God in your little box so as to fit your preconceived view of a literal interpretation of an ancient document.
 
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marktheblake

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The steadfast defense and justification of the endless slaughters in the OT.....

endless? leave me alone. Open pages of the bible, at random, and the vast majority will reflect, Love, mercy, and grace.

Not once have you identified the reasons for these events. Just because you do not know what they are doesn't mean that they were not justified.

I see that there are some who call themselves Christain... surely they are not tho...who pray for a Sign to tell them to commence to kill the evil ones like me.
Such a person is evil and is going to have to answer to God for this (eventually).

Im not one to pray but if i did, it would be for the enlightenment of people who today glorify, justfiy, stand ready to carry out any sickening act of barbarity if the correct authority directs it.
So do we.

Now on that point, here is a hypothetical for you, as I am guessing that you think you are a good person. How are you going to feel, if after death you end up in heaven, and you are there, side by side with Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pott and the like.
You ask "what are these evil guys doing here?"
God answers "didnt you know, its all loving and all forgiveness here"

You do not need to answer the question, we know that you would feel mightily ripped off.

Thankfully God is good, and his goodness is expressed in his justice, and his goodness is expressed in his mercy. It is his desire that all shall repent and turn to him. For those that do not, justice must be served. That is what we all expect from God.
 
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marktheblake

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i particularly like this last one. how do you suppose they found out which among the "women children" ( the ones wailing in terror and horror, as their parents and siblings were murdered before them)
You are making wild assumptions that are not there, just so that you can justify an 'argument by outrage'
fact 1. there was no murder.
fact 2. it is not stated that anything was done in front of them

how do you suppose they found out which ones to keep for themselves? A questionnaire, I suppose, strictly voluntary.

Perhaps if one is going to be highly critical of events dating circa 4000 years ago they might study the customs first so that they can be sure of what they are talking about.

Too Easy: Married women dress differently, prostitutes dress differently.

Most married very young, so it would be very easy to determine who were virgins and who were not, by a combination of age and clothing.

and if i remember rightly, this regime's adult women population were all prostituting themselves.

On this occasion, God in serving judgment on these people chose to be merciful towards the younger women that were still innocent.
 
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AV1611VET

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Who are you to tell God how to create?
He told us how He created --- in Writing.

In fact, He not only told us what He did, but how He did it, when He did it, where He did it, why He did it, what order He did it in, and even who the eyewitnesses were.
 
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AV1611VET

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Even if we assume that the creation event left no evidence, the earth has 4.6 billion years of history. Why is that there?
That history is made-up, programmed into a computer, and left to sit there unchallenged.

It comes from taking the oldest substance on earth, Zircon, assuming it went around the sun 4.404 billion times, then dating the formation of the earth from just prior to that.

Fake science in action.
 
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Hespera

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What's this fixation with Maoists you seem to have?

Are you referring to those who followed Mao Tse Tung, or whomever?

I thought that went out in the 1960's?

I think the Beatles said it best:I've never met the guy, don't know who he is, what he stands for, or anything; but we Occidents have our own version of being hunted by Maoists.

We usually say Napoleon has spies out to get us.




its not an obsession. i think i detect a tinge of the snark here

I guess i find it weird that you dont know anything about one of the most important figures of teh 20th century, but, ok.......

his existence had a profound effect on my family / country, and a few members who were deeply involved have never gotten over the brainwashing they went thru becoming good little maoists.

I find parallels in how people think, and act, here. Those ignorant of the topic wouldnt, much as those ignorant of history tend to repeat it.

the bit about napoleon is probably intended to be some sort of snide, but the, im not always tactful in what i say. I dont get the whole bit of being proud of ignorance tho.
 
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Hespera

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endless? leave me alone. Open pages of the bible, at random, and the vast majority will reflect, Love, mercy, and grace.

Not once have you identified the reasons for these events. Just because you do not know what they are doesn't mean that they were not justified.

Such a person is evil and is going to have to answer to God for this (eventually).

So do we.

Now on that point, here is a hypothetical for you, as I am guessing that you think you are a good person. How are you going to feel, if after death you end up in heaven, and you are there, side by side with Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pott and the like.
You ask "what are these evil guys doing here?"
God answers "didnt you know, its all loving and all forgiveness here"

You do not need to answer the question, we know that you would feel mightily ripped off.

Thankfully God is good, and his goodness is expressed in his justice, and his goodness is expressed in his mercy. It is his desire that all shall repent and turn to him. For those that do not, justice must be served. That is what we all expect from God.

I was referring to your and others' apparently endless willingness to make excuses for all the slaughter of innocents.

As for what we "ALL" expect from "god", speak for yourself.
 
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Hespera

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You are making wild assumptions that are not there, just so that you can justify an 'argument by outrage'
fact 1. there was no murder.
fact 2. it is not stated that anything was done in front of them



Perhaps if one is going to be highly critical of events dating circa 4000 years ago they might study the customs first so that they can be sure of what they are talking about.

Too Easy: Married women dress differently, prostitutes dress differently.

Most married very young, so it would be very easy to determine who were virgins and who were not, by a combination of age and clothing.

and if i remember rightly, this regime's adult women population were all prostituting themselves.

On this occasion, God in serving judgment on these people chose to be merciful towards the younger women that were still innocent.


Right. blame the victims, support the agressors. And of course, throughout history, when a city falls, the women are always treated with honour and respect. Ok man.... different history different universe i guess.
 
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marktheblake

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So why doesn't the evidence back it up then?

Evidence doesn't talk.

All evidence is interpreted through a framework. The evidence does back it up when viewed through the eyes of one who believes that God created, as he said he created.

If you are interpreting through a different framework, ie that there is no god and millions of years, yes, of course you will not agree.
 
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