Christianity... and the fact of evolution

2PhiloVoid said:

Actually, I've been reading, studying, investigating, and trying to obey the Scriptures from cover to cover for quite some time now. I'm fairly conversant with the Bible. May I ask which resource/book you use as a reference for hermeneutics and exegetical practice?

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NO you may not...doesn't include Darwinism though.
Why's it matter to you anyway? Judge me by my posts.

throughfireytrial said:

NO you may not...doesn't include Darwinism though.
Why's it matter to you anyway? Judge me by my posts.

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No, I'm not judging. I respect the fact that you're a fellow Christian, but I'm also trying to understand your point of view about the Bible and how you personally interpret it.

Anyway, I'm not sure there's much more to say. If you believe evolution is wrong, and you read Genesis 1 as a literal account, I'm not going to say or think that you're doing something less than Christian in nature.

AV1611VET said:

In a universe where someone doesn't believe Darwin went to Hell, but doesn't believe in the Lady Hope story either.

What's your story on how Darwin got saved?

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I don't have one. I leave Darwin's salvation status to God.

smithed64 said:

Did I say because you disagree with me you were a heretic. No.
I said evolution is a heretical teaching. Because that was what we were talking about.

When we disagree. I will say that one of us is wrong and one is right.

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Well yes, but you see, you are the heretic from my theological point of view, even as I am the heretic from your point of view.

Now that we've settled that you are a heretic, shall we discuss the evidence for evolution?

ChristsSoldier115 said:

Has anyone in the thread claimed God did not create us?

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You conveniently forgot the word "how." People agree that God created us, but they refuse to believe His word when He says HOW He created us. Jesus affirmed the stories in Genesis, including the fact that sin and death entered the world through Adam. Prior to that, there was no death. No death = no evolution. God creating Adam means he did not evolve. God created all the fish in the sea in a day; no evolution.
[quote] I think they believe it to be a more detailed explanation of what the Genesis account already says.[/QUOTE]
Anyone who believes that the Scriptures and evolution can both be true understands neither. God created man from the dust of the earth. He had no ancestor. Our common progenitor was Adam.

Paul of Eugene OR said:

I don't have one. I leave Darwin's salvation status to God.

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And yet you said this:

Well, I'm not going to consign Darwin to hell, nor do I believe the Lady Hope story.

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Something must be prompting you to believe Darwin got saved.

In light of almost everyone else denying it, what makes you think otherwise?

AV1611VET said:

And yet you said this:

Something must be prompting you to believe Darwin got saved.

In light of almost everyone else denying it, what makes you think otherwise?

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You think everyone else thinks Darwin is damned to hell? Your experience is kind of limited. The folks who arranged for his body to be buried in Westminster Abby, for example, would not fall into that camp.

Myself, I suspect he made it to heaven. But I don't really know, you understand.

Paul of Eugene OR said:

You think everyone else thinks Darwin is damned to hell?

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As a matter of fact, I do.

Maybe not everyone here, but most.

If you don't believe me ... ask around yourself if our educated elite here think Darwin repented -- on his deathbed or otherwise.

Indent said:

I wouldn't be surprised to see Darwin in heaven.

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Neither would I.

I believe the Lady Hope story.

pat34lee said:

That is not a documentary, but a fairy tale told in scientific sounding terms.

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What, another evolutionary "just so" story? How unusual.

It doesn't matter what road you take, and intelligent creator and designer a "God" is clearly evident... Whether it be the end result of Evolution, or whatever you may believe or buy into... (you will all eventually see this, eventually...)

Consider this about Evolution, just as one minor example of this...

See, "evidence", "Plausibility" and "Impossibility"...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objections_to_evolution#Evidence

I cannot change the "Die Hard's" that claim the ToE is perfect and flawless, but, I can just tell you that the "truth" is that it is not... I really wish it were, to tell you the truth, but, it's not, and that's the "truth"... I wish it were for the exact same reason that many of you believe it is, to have something flawless, perfect, and most importantly "certain", that works for and explains everything, and not "uncertain", and doesn't always work and can't explain everything, for uncertainty disturbs and unsettles me, and I think that's why many of you "Die Hard's" don't dare question it and deny the truth that it is not "flawless" and "perfect" and is unreliable in what many "Die Hard's" only claims it does or can do...

Prove otherwise, if you can...

God Bless!

Consider us and the things in Creation, there is clearly an intelligence behind it's design, all of it is very, very disturbingly similar to the intelligence behind the things we create, build, make, design, only on a less advanced scope and scale... But, is similar enough to see, if your not blind, the same kind of intelligence on a much more advanced scope and scale than us... The similarities are striking, your blind if you can't see that...

Those are just two things to consider...

God Bless!

Just like Anakin Skywalker in Star Wars episode 3, when he is talking to the soon to be Emperor about "the Force" Anakin says about Yoda and the leaders of the Jedi Council "I know there are things about the Force they're not telling me..."

Likewise, many teachers and proponents pushing evolutionary theory as the ultimate answer: "There are things about the Theory of Evolution they're "not telling you"..." That is, the ones that know this isn't actually, exactly, "true", especially... I suggest you all find out what that is for yourselves...

Likewise, many teachers about God, the ones who know, that is, "There are things about God they're not telling you..." But, Very few in the case of God though... Cause the truth is, many don't know, and the ones that think they might, or actually do know "some" things, notice I said "some", not all things, like Christ... Anyways, Even if they did know "some" things, for certain, and just like Christ, who knew "all" things, these, in this case, are not necessarily trying to be deceptive, it's just that, well, even Christ himself, who was God, had very much a lot of trouble in actually "telling it" to you in terms you'd actually understand, let alone comprehend...

Paul couldn't describe it either, and he went there, and said he couldn't describe it in human terms... I personally experience the same thing and have much trouble with only the "some" things that I know also... People who have had a near death, or actually a temporary death, or comatose experience, often come back with stories of where they went, but, none of them are "exact" I believe... Just like visions or dreams, they are not "exactly" like the thing, but were only "like" or similar to it in a very limited way and could only be "likened" to the real reality of the true place that awaits us... I believe they could all have a "common thread", but good luck understanding or comprehending or seeing "how" that is... God knows, but, as for us, it would, does, and will "warp" our primitive little minds if and when we try to understand how this is so...

Remember this when going through the Bible...

God Bless!

Ok...so you're comparing a scientific theory that is changing as knowledge is increasing to some sort of gnostic knowledge of the bible/God.

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense from here...

Neogaia777 said:

I cannot change the "Die Hard's" that claim the ToE is perfect and flawless,

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I don't think anyone's said it's "perfect and flawless"...I think most of us recognize that as knowledge grows, the science changes a bit...with each "hole" that gets filled in the fossil record, the theory becomes more complete.

Let's recall the definition of "scientific theory" shall we?
A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world.

RedPonyDriver said:

repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment.

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That makes Darwinian Natural selection (natural breeding, Darwins molecular fiddler) a theory, and not a particularly difficult one to observe, but makes the extrapolation from that to the origin of taxa a complete crock and definitely not a theory.
No example of any new functionally coherent thing arising as a result of Natural selection has ever been observed and all experimentation and calculation in this regard has confirmed that this will never take place.
Oracle soup anyone?

2PhiloVoid said:

At the same time, I can only believe that which seems coherent to me. Christ rising from the dead and sending the Holy Spirit into His Church seems very coherent. But, a story in which God makes the earth and everything in it in literally six days doesn't seem to me to so coherent, especially when the evidence doesn't seem to reflect a six day production. (Besides, if God is truly omnipotent, why would He even really need six days in the first place? Surely, He could bring Heaven and Earth into existence in the blink of an eye. Am I wrong?)

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All I can really tell you is I believe God's word, all of it. It's tough enough for me to stay on the right path and I don't need to create wrong ones to cause myself more difficulty.

If I may, you might want to consider any incoherence you might see was likely planted there by the world. I am certain evolution is one of Satan's scams, and a major one at that. It's main purpose is not to present truth but to draw people away from the truth. First there was just God and his word for Christians, then evolution, to make part of his word null because "we are just to smart in this day and age to fall for such nonsense as creation", then next, God goes down the tubes....he's already becoming a fairy tale And no, it's not a purposeful conspiracy by men, but a process that does just as we are warned Satan would do. Takes years for the scam to work, but it will reach it's goal eventually.

Also, I am concerned about you too, but the post was meant for all. I bring it up because the situation comes up a lot here, and when I actually got down and gave some thought to people believing some of the bible and leaning to their own understanding for other parts, it worried me, and once again, seemed a dangerous road some may not be aware they are walking. But in the end, about all I can do if state my feelings about it.

And FWIW, creation, just as it is written, makes perfect sense to me.

Indent said:

This is a good introduction for those that would like to know more about evolution:

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I have seen this video before and agree it is a good introduction to evolution. However, the only way of determining what you believe is to consider the contrary arguments. In fact, if you haven't tried to disprove what you think is right, and failed, then your foundation is very shaky. I have found that there are science based as well as Scriptural rebuttals for all the evidence presented by evolution theory.

pat34lee said:

Sorry, wouldn't want to blow your mind all at once. People can be
fragile when their worldview falls apart.

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How about "any"? Would that be too mindblowing?