Christianity and global poverty

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Ted
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Neither of the countries you named as ones you admire have open borders or are inviting the whole world to get on their gravy trains, do they?

How Not to Welcome Refugees, Denmark-Style

Hi albion,

I also think it worth considering that neither of those countries have a poster in front of their largest city encouraging nations to send their poor and huddled masses. I think it also worth considering that neither of those nations are surrounded by other nations that have the same poverty in the nations that surround their borders as the United States does. I also think it worth considering that at least part of the reason that the 'whole world' is on our gravy train is that we sent the gravy train out there. So, I think it at least worth considering that we are somewhat responsible for other nations thinking that we are a 'gravy train'.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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Albion

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Hi albion,

I also think it worth considering that neither of those countries have a poster in front of their largest city encouraging nations to send their poor and huddled masses.
People talk like that line is part of the Constitution. Yes, we are -- and have long been -- the most welcoming of all nations, but not in the sense of open borders with a dozen free services following, all courtesy of the government. Anyone who has a relative who came through Ellis Island should know all that that entailed.
 
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Ted
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People talk like that line is part of the Constitution. Yes, we are -- and have long been -- the most welcoming of all nations, but not in the sense of open borders with a dozen free services following, all courtesy of the government. Anyone who has a relative who came through Ellis Island should know all that that entailed.

Hi albion,

It is, however, a point of law that 'illegal' immigrants cannot use most of our government's 'free' services. Even though, if they have a job, they do pay into SS just like everyone else, they cannot, unless at some time become U.S. citizens or legal immigrants receive SS retirement benefits. Illegal immigrants can also not apply for food stamps or most forms of social welfare. They are not eligible for SSI either. There are a very, very few government run social programs that 'illegal' immigrants can participate in. They can get 'emergency' health care under a part of the medicaid program, but it has to be an emergency type of service. Broken bones, heart attack and so forth.

Do you have relatives that came through Ellis Island? It's my understanding that the staff there just pretty much created a list of names of those coming in. I'm not sure that there was any 'checking' of a person's background or past criminal behavior. After all, we didn't have the kind of computer equipment that we have today to make such checks, on an international basis, even possible. Most of today's mafia, Italian and Irish and Russian, came through Ellis Island than our southern border.

So, while I have read and understood your complaint, I'm not necessarily in agreement that 'illegal' immigrants are bankrupting our nation by taking all of our 'free' stuff. Yes, I do absolutely think that we should take advantage of all computer programs that allow us to check an arriving immigrant's criminal history and certainly should not allow those with any serious crimes in. But that's not what's being done these days at the border.

I just wanted to offer a balanced view of the actual problem. Taking all of our 'free' stuff isn't a particularly valid complaint in my understanding.

Finally, ok, so we have a couple of million people that may or may not be taking advantage of our largess. We are, after all, the nation with the greatest wealth. Are we so greedy that we refuse to use that great wealth to help people, but have no problem using that great wealth to build bombs and make wars to kill people? Just asking. As a born again believer, my priorities concerning what we should be doing with the great wealth that God has blessed us with, are likely different than others. I don't bemoan that a few million poor and disenfranchised who would like to live in this great land that we promote as the home of the free and the brave with the richest capitalistic economy that the world has ever seen, a few million or billion dollars of the several trillion dollars that our government takes in, in tax revenues and other forms of collection, to give them a hand up. It is my understanding that most immigrants don't want to be on our 'free' stuff collection list. They want to work. They want to enjoy the same pride that I do in taking care of and providing for their families.

We actually, as someone pointed out, have much lazier born and raised Americans that take advantage of our 'free' stuff than any group of immigrants.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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Ted
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People talk like that line is part of the Constitution. Yes, we are -- and have long been -- the most welcoming of all nations, but not in the sense of open borders with a dozen free services following, all courtesy of the government. Anyone who has a relative who came through Ellis Island should know all that that entailed.

Hi again albion,

I'm going to challenge you to provide some proof. You say that when immigrants were coming in through Ellis Island that it wasn't like we had open borders. Other than the fact that they did have to come over on a ship, I think that border was just as open as any southern border is today. I don't know of a single boatload of people that were turned away from Ellis Island and sent back to where they came from. So, it is my understanding that up until the last 50-60 years, America did have fairly open borders. It is only in these last few decades that we have tried to put more controls on our border and I fully support such actions, when they are done in a fair and humane way.

So, do you have any relatives that came in through Ellis Island? If so, what do they say it was like? Is there any evidence that anybody that made it over on a boat to Ellis Island was ever turned away? If so, how many? What's your evidence for inferring that the borders were more closed 70-100 years ago than they are today.

You are correct that there wasn't a lot of free stuff in those days, but then there wasn't a lot of free stuff for Americans either in those days. Government social programs to provide a floor limit on food, housing and income really didn't become a thing until the mid 50's and more recently. Myself, I don't have a problem that through fair and equitable taxation, we provide a basic measure of such things to everyone who lives within our borders.

Donald Trump, on the other hand, is a stingy, greedy man. He abhors the thought that American money might do good for someone of another country. I firmly believe that if it were solely up to him, we wouldn't provide aid to Israel or Mozambique or any other nation on the face of the earth. He's all about the U.S. needs to be a closed loop system and the rest of the world has to go it on its own. However, that has, for quite a long time now, not been the nature of American culture or governance. As you have correctly pointed out, we are, to some extent a generous nation and I'm somewhat proud to be a part of that America.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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