Christian wimps

[Goriller]

http://www.enyart.com/features/writings/nicer.shtml

 

[Bulldog]

GOod point. I fell I have very right to tell somone that they are wrong whether they are offended or not. (if they truly are wrong)

 

[Chaucer]

And no Christian would ever be caught dead mocking the wicked, as God’s men in the Bible sometimes did.

I'm not sure what civilization you're living in but the world is full, choke full, of those who mock and ridicule others because of the mocker twisted sense of morality. In fact the Christian world, unfortunately, is full of those who rather than promoting their own view of the gospel, instead seek to belittle the views of others. Have you not read this board and the posts that rather than promoting Christ, demean other peoples understanding of Christ.

That's a sign of weakness and egoism.

 

[TwinCrier]

People are far more bold on this board than in real life. In reality, yes, most Christians have been convinced that being politically correct and not rebuking sinners in the way to win friends and influence people. The greatest fear in the times for Christians is not being fed to lions, it's being unpopular.

 

[LuxPerpetua]

Christians today are nicer than God. Or at least they are trying to be so. In the Church there is a standard of niceness that Jesus failed to reach while on earth. Comparing God’s attitude and behavior with that of the Church today shows that believers are far more polite, tolerant, understanding and respectful to the wicked than God is. The Church is also less offensive, rude and sarcastic than God’s men in the Bible were. And no Christian would ever be caught dead mocking the wicked, as God’s men in the Bible sometimes did.

Jesus was offensive. Most people were offended by him. The proof for John the Baptist that Jesus was the Christ was that the blind see, the lame walk and the majority are "offended" by Him (Mat. 11:2-19). As Jesus said, "Blessed is he who is not offended because of Me" (Mat. 11:6; Luke 7:23). In Galilee, Jesus did not plead with his neighbors to understand Him when "they were offended at Him" (Mat. 13:57; Mark 6:3). If unbelievers are offended, so be it (cf. Luke 14:3-4; John 5:8-16). "Shake off the dust from your feet" (Mat. 10:14). But alas, that is no longer a "Christian" attitude.

Christ’s apostles asked Him, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard [Your] saying?" (Mat. 15:12). What is the accepted Christian response today after an offense is taken? Quick, apologize! Ask for forgiveness! Tell them you are sorry. How did Jesus respond? He said to ignore the complaints of the unbelievers: "Let them alone. They are blind," (Mat. 15:14). Today, many Christians condemn Christ’s attitude as unloving.

Jesus promised his followers, "you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. And then many will be offended" (Mat. 24:9-10). Jesus taught that ‘if they hated Me, they will hate you’" (see John 15:18-19; 17:14; Mat. 10:22; Luke 21:17). Today Christians think if the world hates them, they have failed. The reverse should be true. It is not that a Christian wants to be hated; it is simply an occupational hazard.

The Bible sometimes ministers through ridicule, humor, sarcasm and even mocking. For example, God mocked the Midianites when He defeated them after sending a nightmare to them that they were being attacked by a loaf of bread (Jud. 7:13-14). Elijah, just prior to executing 450 prophets of Baal, "mocked them" as the Bible says, telling them to yell louder to their god so that Baal could hear their prayers since he was either on a trip, sleeping or in the restroom (Hebrew, "private place," 1 Ki. 18:27; and 2 Ki. 6:8-20).

When the Ad Council airs anti-drug public service announcements (PSAs) that mock "pot heads on Jeopardy" who cannot even remember their names, they are not motivated out of hatred, but out of love. Ridicule can and does save lives. "Why do you think they call it dope?" Ad Council spots run on Christian stations and get no criticism for being unloving or unkind. Why is it that Christians never rise up against the effort to stigmatize drug users? If a pagan brings peer pressure against "pot heads," that is accepted. Let a believer, however, use mockery to stigmatize fornication or sodomy, and the Church rises in condemnation. God, however, does not condemn those who "rebuke the wicked" (see Prov. 24:25).

When a harsh word is needed God uses a harsh word. This is true in the Old and New Testaments. Herod beheaded John the Baptist for "rebuking" the king for "all the evils which Herod had done" (Luke 3:19) and for condemning the tetrarch for incestuous adultery (Mat. 14:3-4; Mark 6:17-18; Lev. 18:16; 20:21) with "Herodias, his brother Philip’s wife" (Luke 3:19). Jesus warned of "the leaven of Herod" (Mark 8:15). When notified that "Herod wants to kill You," (Luke 13:31), Christ responded without respect, "Go, tell that fox, ‘I cast out demons’…" (Luke 13:32).

The especially harsh term hypocrite is used in the Gospels twenty-three times. Christ often insulted the scribes, Pharisees and lawyers. He even called the Pharisees blind guides (Mat. 23:16, 24) and sons of hell (Mat. 23:15). Jesus spoke unkind words unacceptable today. He said to Peter "Get behind me, Satan" (Mat. 16:23). He told the Pharisees "You are of your father the devil" (John 8:44), and made a whip and cleared "thieves" from the temple (Mat. 21:12-13; Mark 11:15-17; Luke 19:45-46; John 2:14:15).

Gentiles (as symbols of the godless) and sodomites are called "dogs" in the Bible (Mat. 7:6; 15:26; Deut. 23:17-18; Ps. 22:16; 59:5-6; Phil. 3:2; Rev. 22:15). And Jesus was harsh (not only to the Pharisees, as some believers wrongly assume but) to all the unrepentant (see His use of "hypocrite"). Jesus instructs Christians to not "cast your pearls before swine" (Mat. 7:6). Yet the silly dilemma now is, "Who could Christ possibly have meant by that, for we are too loving, tolerant, polite and respectful to refer to any human being by that mean-spirited term."

In the King James Version, the seductive women among the people of God are worse than "harlots" (Ezek. 16:33). That crude term appears in the Bible dozens of times. The men who use those women are "whoremongers" (1 Tim. 1:10; Heb. 13:4; Rev. 21:8; 22:15), which is the most raw term in the English language to describe promiscuous men. God describes other sinners in terms of filthy excrement (Isa. 64:6) and even worse (2 Ki. 18:27; Isa. 36:12). Sinners truly are repulsive, regardless of how Christians today try to sanitize them.

The Bible does not say, "Hate the sin, love the sinner." It says, "As a man thinks in his heart, so is he" (Prov. 23:7). And that God hates "all workers of iniquity" (Ps 5:5). "The Lord abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man" (Ps 5:6). Also "the wicked and the one who loves violence [God] hates." (Ps 11:5). Further, "The face of the Lord is against those who do evil" (Ps 34:16). God "loves righteousness and hate wickedness (Ps. 45:7).

There are six things "the Lord hates," including "a heart that devises wicked plans… a false witness who speaks lies, and one who sows discord among brethren" (Prov. 6:16-19). And God reminds us "All their wickedness is in Gilgal, for there I hated them. Because of the evil of their deeds I will drive them from My house; I will love them no more" (Ho 9:13). As Moses wrote of God, "if you do not obey Me... My soul shall abhor you" (Lev. 26:27-30).

Even in the New Testament, Paul wrote, "Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil" (Rom. 12:9) introducing the concept of hypocritical love. What is hypocritical love? "Should you… love those who hate the Lord? Therefore the wrath of the Lord is upon you" (2 Chr. 19:2). Warning the wicked of the coming judgment is harsh, but is a necessary component of acceptable love. A love that is not hypocritical rebukes and condemns, and then points the way to God.

God uses different methods to communicate the Gospel to people at different depths of depravity. At times, a Christian can pray with an unbeliever. At other times, a believer might ridicule the unrepentant in hopes of waking him up. Painful communication though is in no way reserved just for non-Christians.

Paul uses dripping sarcasm telling the Corinthians that they do not need his counsel because they are full, rich, wise, strong and distinguished. They are even like kings, and all that without Paul’s help (1 Cor. 4:8, 10). Sarcasm stigmatizes destructive behavior and prods people toward righteousness (1 Cor. 4:14). Paul also fell short of today’s compassionate Christianity when he wrote that the government should minister terror, wrath and vengeance against the evildoer and that the sword should be used against them (Rom. 13:3-4). The Apostle also erred by today’s standards calling unbelievers fools (Rom. 1:22) and the Galatians fools (Gal. 3:1, 3). Incidentally, Jesus also called men fools (Mat. 23:17, 19; 25:2-8; Luke 11:40; 12:20) when appropriate but never "without a cause" (Mat. 5:22) according to His teaching. As King David wrote, "The fool has said in his heart, ‘There is no God.’" (Ps. 53:1). Thus, atheists are fools and it is cruel to withhold this knowledge from them.

Christians enjoy quoting, "No weapon formed against you shall prosper." However many shudder at the rest of the verse. For thus says the Lord, "Every tongue which rises against you in judgment you shall condemn" (Isa. 54:17). Jesus taught that human beings will condemn the wicked. "The men of Nineveh will rise in the judgment with this generation and condemn it" (Mat. 12:41). Jesus said, "For God so loved the world." Then two verses later He added, "but he who does not believe is condemned already" (John 3:18). By today’s Christian standard, no unbeliever would know that he is condemned, because most believers will not communicate this vital truth. John 3:16 is nice. John 3:18 is not nice.

I agree. Revelation 3:14-22 has some very choice words for lukewarm Christians. Nowhere does Christ say that we are to be accomodating to unbelief or be tolerant of evil. However, I don't think that God wants us to kill, torment, or persecute abortion doctors or homosexuals, etc. We are ourselves deserving of death, and it is only through our dependence upon Christ that we are saved from this fate. Jesus himself very openly disagreed with the Pharisees and evil-doers but he did not destroy them (which, of course, he very easily could have done) but preached to them, thus putting the burden upon them to accept his message or not.

Going back to the original complaint of the wimpish nature among Christians, like I said above, I totally agree. We, as Christians, need to have a full understanding that Christ has told us to "take up our cross and follow him" and to despise evil things. Like the Apostles, we Christians need to be prepared to die for our faith if we are called upon to do so, just as Christ died for us. When we accept Christ as our savior and Lord, we truly need to meditate on the question, "are we prepared to accept this cup???" Why should we accomodate or nurture unbelief that leads to destruction? This is wrong on our part, I think. I don't think we should either be wishy-washy in our beliefs or so open as to "call evil good" just for the sake of adding numbers to our pews. Christianity is inebriating and life-changing. We cannot have Christ in us and continue to accomodate the ways of the world . . . but as I said above, this also does not give us license to use evil means (like murder or violence) to reform the world. "Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord." However, among Christian communities, sin should NOT be tolerated, and I think Paul gives us some great advice on what we should do to Christians who continue to be lukewarm (1 Cor 5).

Jesus was a man, not a girl. Christianity today has been emasculated. Men and women are different and they communicate differently. Women are softer and nicer than men, and thank God that they are. However, men are not supposed to be women. Today, Christian ministers are expected to behave like women. That foolishness is a death sentence for many unbelievers. Strength, confidence, conviction and tough love appeal to those who are searching. Thus Jesus is a beacon to real seekers. But for those wanting to get lost, Christ is like a street sign that has been reversed by a troublemaker.

I'm so glad to know that you think so highly of my sex.

Personally, I think in the Gospels the strength of women is very apparent. And let's not forget that it was to women that the resurrected Christ first appeared. You can read Luke and see that women were very involved in supporting Christ's ministry, and Christ himself chose a woman to spread his message to the Samaritans. Christ continually showed compassion to women who were pregnant, nursing, and even menstrating (very taboo for a Jewish male!)--*shocking!* It was women who anointed Jesus' feet with perfume, who came to the tomb to anoint his body with spices, and these same women did not shy away from Christ's death on the cross but remained there throughout his agony.

In my own limited life experience I have found that women are far more capable of empathy, compassion, and love than most men, and women throughout history have been willing to be servants and do the common drudgery so despised by men. Christ himself showed these emotions (and he even cried in public!) and was not above asking others for help and support. In this way, Christ comes across to me in his actions as far more "feminine" than "masculine," if you want to use the stereotypical terms. Praise God that Jesus was not stereotypical, otherwise He would have been the conquering warrior Messiah that was so anticipated by Jews during his day!

Again, though, your overall sentiment is spot on: Christians should not be embarrassed by their faith, and we should all openly profess Christ as Lord in our words and actions. Our gender is irrelevant in this regard since we are all one in Christ. God does not expect any less of me than my husband simply because I am female. We are both called to be totally committed to him in thought, word, and deed.

Today we are way nicer than God. It is tragic. This spiritual plateau that the Church has reached conveniently reduces the chances for confrontation. Nice people rarely rebuke, judge, confront, accuse or condemn. Nice people have less stress. It seems the only ones that Christians are quick to judge and condemn are fellow believers who judge and condemn the wicked. Why is this? My guess is because Christians worship being "liked" more than they worship Jesus Christ. If judgementalism becomes the expected life-style for Christians, then that would mean THEY would have to judge! And that might make them . . . (oh no! . . . dare I say it?) . . . UNPOPULAR!!! Horror of horrors! Someone might not like me!

Wimps, wimps wimps. I'm sick and tired of Christian wimps.

I agree 110%! The world hated Christ, why should we WANT it to like us? Our allegiance is to God, not to the world. I do all that I can to show God's love to non-Christians because people are drawn to love not hate, and it is my hope that they will accept God's love before it's too late. However, I will never sugar-coat or water down my beliefs to make non-Christians feel more comfortable. My biggest concern as of late has been the acceptance of sin among Christian clergy, many of whom do not seem to care about the morality of their flock anymore. Yes, we all sin, but that doesn't mean that we should think that's not a big deal. We are called to be holy and perfect, and it would behoove us to remember that.

Peace in Christ.

 

[Goriller]

The greatest fear in the times for Christians is not being fed to lions, it's being unpopular.

Here! Here! I say all the time that most Christians worship the false god of Public Acceptance.

 

[Goriller]

I don't think that God wants us to kill, torment, or persecute abortion doctors or homosexuals, etc.

I agree with your whole post except for this. God wants us to advocate the government legally executing murderers and homosexuals.


MOD NOTE: Advocating an old testament judiciary system is not against the rules, but you have better be prepared to defend it becuase it is controversial

 

[BarbB]

I agree with your whole post except for this. God wants us to advocate the government legally.

And I agree with most of what you posted, Goriller, except for this. I am a strong, on-fire Christian, not lukewarm in doctrine. But I am going to leave it up to God what he wants to do in judgment of murderers and homosexuals. As my sis-in-law said, If we kill them we must save them first!

 

[LuxPerpetua]

Ditto Newlamb. Nowhere did Christ use physical violence to spread his message. I don't think that we, as Christians, should support non-Christian behavior within our own lifestyles or those of our fellow Christians, but in the words of St. Paul, "What business is it of mine to judge those outside of the church? . . . God will judge those outside" (1 Cor 5:12-13). These are words to at least think upon . . .

 

[Andry]

Today we are way nicer than God. It is tragic. This spiritual plateau that the Church has reached conveniently reduces the chances for confrontation. Nice people rarely rebuke, judge, confront, accuse or condemn. Nice people have less stress. It seems the only ones that Christians are quick to judge and condemn are fellow believers who judge and condemn the wicked. Why is this? My guess is because Christians worship being "liked" more than they worship Jesus Christ. If judgementalism becomes the expected life-style for Christians, then that would mean THEY would have to judge! And that might make them . . . (oh no! . . . dare I say it?) . . . UNPOPULAR!!! Horror of horrors! Someone might not like me!

Wimps, wimps wimps. I'm sick and tired of Christian wimps.

O wise one, please enlighten us with your profound wisdom on what you are doing about it?

1. What is your purpose on this earth?
2. Would God agree with you that us Christian wimps are actually nicer than him? Wow, that made my day, I'm actually nicer than God? Wooohooo..!
3. How did you get to your esteemed positioned of judge and jury? I believe the executioner position is filled, but you may want to check into that, as you must also be more than qualified to do that.
4. Please enlighten us poor souls on how to evangelize effectively.

Lastly, I'm probably mistaken, or I've been reading the wrong Bible, but in Matt 11:29-30, Jesus said, ‘Take my yoke upon you and learn from me,… 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.' NIV

But you said "Nice people have less stress." So if my yoke is easy and my burden is light, I must be, according to you, a nice person, and ergo, a Christian wimp. Wonderful.

 

[Flynmonkie]

Today we are way nicer than God. It is tragic. This spiritual plateau that the Church has reached conveniently reduces the chances for confrontation. Nice people rarely rebuke, judge, confront, accuse or condemn. Nice people have less stress. It seems the only ones that Christians are quick to judge and condemn are fellow believers who judge and condemn the wicked. Why is this? My guess is because Christians worship being "liked" more than they worship Jesus Christ. If judgementalism becomes the expected life-style for Christians, then that would mean THEY would have to judge! And that might make them . . . (oh no! . . . dare I say it?) . . . UNPOPULAR!!! Horror of horrors! Someone might not like me!

Wimps, wimps wimps. I'm sick and tired of Christian wimps.

First thing that should be clarified here is that we are not GOD.

It is not our place to Judge as God does. We are to always use Discretion and Discernment in our judgments. And to maintain a Christ-like behavior. Sure Jesus got angry, when his fathers home was being defiled. But you did not see him as a norm running around acting angry at the world for their sins did you? Actually, just the opposite. Taking an "in your face" attitude is the way of man, Not the way of Christ.

No I do not worry about being liked, The Good Lords Love is enough for me. Actually, I am not even worried about "other" Christians liking me. So that blows that theory.

I simply do not even want to try to assume Gods role of judging hearts. I am here to share his love and his Gospel, not to force anyone to believe or shove it down their thoats. I simply cannot change a mans heart, but my attitude towards him might help God to.

Jesus was a man, not a girl. Christianity today has been emasculated. Men and women are different and they communicate differently. Women are softer and nicer than men, and thank God that they are. However, men are not supposed to be women. Today, Christian ministers are expected to behave like women. That foolishness is a death sentence for many unbelievers. Strength, confidence, conviction and tough love appeal to those who are searching. Thus Jesus is a beacon to real seekers. But for those wanting to get lost, Christ is like a street sign that has been reversed by a troublemaker

Really bad analogy and thank Goodness you are not in my courtroom, for I would show you just how "soft" this woman can be.

For starters a man that points a finger at other men and in the same hypocritical momment- shows his very own weakness of real wisdom....

Oh BTW - there is no such thing as a "nice" person. Lets not forget, we are ALL sinners and come short of the Glory of God.

 

[oldrooster]

I do agree with that article 100%.

 

[Eusebios]

While I do believe that much of the "Christian" world, most notedly mainline and even a good deal of evangelical Protestantism,has become far too accomodating and concerned with not offending anyone, I think as other posters have rightly pointed out, we must be careful about hastily judging others. I too believe that this is far too great a responsibility for me, or any other flawed adn imperfect human being.
O Lord and Master of my life, cast away from me the spirit of laziness, idle curiosity, love of power and vain talk.
But grant me, Your servant, the spirit of moderation, humility, patience and love. Yes, Lord and King, grant me to see my own faults and not to judge my brothers and sisters.
For You are blessed forever. Amen
St. Ephraim the Syrian
(not a compromiser)
His unworthy servant,
Eusebios.

 

[Goriller]

O wise one, please enlighten us with your profound wisdom on what you are doing about it?

1. What is your purpose on this earth?
2. Would God agree with you that us Christian wimps are actually nicer than him? Wow, that made my day, I'm actually nicer than God? Wooohooo..!
3. How did you get to your esteemed positioned of judge and jury? I believe the executioner position is filled, but you may want to check into that, as you must also be more than qualified to do that.
4. Please enlighten us poor souls on how to evangelize effectively.

Lastly, I'm probably mistaken, or I've been reading the wrong Bible, but in Matt 11:29-30, Jesus said, ‘Take my yoke upon you and learn from me,… 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.' NIV

But you said "Nice people have less stress." So if my yoke is easy and my burden is light, I must be, according to you, a nice person, and ergo, a Christian wimp. Wonderful.

Looks like I hit a nerve. Tell me andry, can you prove you do not worship the false god of Public Acceptance?

 

[themessage88]

GOod point. I fell I have very right to tell somone that they are wrong whether they are offended or not. (if they truly are wrong)

Right, be we need to be careful. You cannot criticize or be angry with a non-christian about a christian issue, they do not know. Even Jesus said "Have mercy on them, for they do not know what they do."

I guess I'm just saying that we need to be more Christ-like by loving as Christ did.

 

[Chaucer]

First thing that should be clarified here is that we are not GOD.

It is not our place to Judge as God does. We are to always use Discretion and Discernment in our judgments. And to maintain a Christ-like behavior. Sure Jesus got angry, when his fathers home was being defiled. But you did not see him as a norm running around acting angry at the world for their sins did you? Actually, just the opposite. Taking an "in your face" attitude is the way of man, Not the way of Christ.

Well said.

Its sad to see people use the life of Christ to justify ugly behavior. Hating sin and attacking the sinner are two different things - and often attacking the sinner is nothing more that an excuse to hate those who interpret the world or even the Bible differently that do you.

 

[Andry]

Looks like I hit a nerve. Tell me andry, can you prove you do not worship the false god of Public Acceptance?

Don't make that assumption. It's so easy to be a critic. Be kind enough to stay on topic and respond to the post before going off on a tangent.

 

[Goriller]

O wise one, please enlighten us with your profound wisdom on what you are doing about it?

1. What is your purpose on this earth?

To glorify God by enjoying Him.

2. Would God agree with you that us Christian wimps are actually nicer than him?

Yes, being nicer than God is unbiblical. God commands us to rebuke sinners in order to save them from the harm they do to themselves and others. But that might make them "not like us" so most Chistians who worship the false god of Public Acceptance, who worship their comfort zones, don't say anything at all and the sinner continues in his adulterous affair or alchoholism or theft from the company he works for and the next thing you know he loses his family, his wife loses her husband and his children lose their father. All because some "nicer than God" Christian didn't want to be disliked for a whole 30 seconds by the person he was thinking about rebuking.

Wow, that made my day, I'm actually nicer than God? Wooohooo..!

And you will have to explain to God one day why you were too much of a coward to risk being disliked by anyone.

3. How did you get to your esteemed positioned of judge and jury? I believe the executioner position is filled, but you may want to check into that, as you must also be more than qualified to do that.

I am commanded in the Bible to judge.

4. Please enlighten us poor souls on how to evangelize effectively.

Sure, no problem. Sinners need to be convinced that they are sinners before they will ask for forgiveness. This is why the Bible says the Law was our tudor to bring us to Christ. Show sinners how much they have violated the Law and they will see their need for forgiveness. But showing people they are sinners will cause many of them to not like you for a whole 30 seconds, therefore most Christians reject this method.

Lastly, I'm probably mistaken, or I've been reading the wrong Bible, but in Matt 11:29-30, Jesus said, ‘Take my yoke upon you and learn from me,… 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.' NIV

But you said "Nice people have less stress." So if my yoke is easy and my burden is light, I must be, according to you, a nice person, and ergo, a Christian wimp. Wonderful.

Most of the disciples who took Christ's yoke upon them were martyred. Christ was also murdered. Many Christians down through the centuries were martyred for their faith. But the fact that most Christians today are not even disliked by anyone is testimony that there is something wrong with their spiritual walk.