Christian vs. Secular

[Doubtless]

Now most of us Christians who have been writing for any period of time longer than two days already know C.S. Lewis' (paraphrased) "We don't need more good writers writing Christian books, we need more Christians writing good books." (again, that is a major paraphrase, I'm not very good with remembering exact quotes, so I compromise (sue me! )).

Now, as some of you know, I've turned to screenwriting over the past months, and now I write only scripts. But only one of my current/favored scripts is truly about anything Christian, and only one other has Christian principle behind it. The third, and one of my favorites, could even appear anti-Christian in theme and principal if not analyzed correctly (the entire film is written subjectively, with the moral standpoints of the characters (medieval times) most of whom treat violence, murder, and war as a game, and this notion is never disuaded; the only bad result of it is shown in the way that one person gets totally screwed, and winds up having to give his life to bring his master and the person who kills him (kills the man who gives his life, not the master) back to peaceful relations with each other).

I've talked about this on other sites, and I already know where I stand, but I thought that perhaps a bit of discussion could be helpful to those who chance upon it.

So, where does everyone stand on this? Should all our works of art be Christian-based or at least have entirely Christian themes, or should we tell real (as real as fiction gets, anyway ) stories unhindered by a moral message? (I'm not discussing morals here, as in putting swear words and nude people in a film/book, I'm talking about what themes you come across with).

 

[Lessien]

The best thing about art, in my opinion, is that it's interpretive. You can take any work of art--a song, a story, a painting--and interpret it any way you want to. For example, there was a song years ago that was intended as anti-racism satire. This is how it opened:

Short people got
No reason
Short people got
No reason
Short people got
No reason to li-ive....

Now, this was during the Civil Rights era, I believe, and the refrain went something like "All men are brothers, from the day we're born to the day we die," clearly marking the song as a call for greater acceptance of other races. Some short people, however, missed the refrain and severely misinterpreted the song, thinking it was a call to arms against short people. The man who wrote that song had to go into hiding for several months.

Was the song intended as anti-short person? No. The material was there so that if you had all the information, that interpretation wasn't possible. But misinterpretation is always possible.

What I'm saying is that we should strive to keep God at the center, but we shouldn't strive to be so vehement in trying to get our messages across that we beat people over the head with it. The material should be there so that an anti-Christian interpretation isn't possible, but we shouldn't strive to create "Christian" art. We should strive for Art with Christ at the center.

 

[sunstruckdream]

I believe that if God gave me a talent to write, I glorify Him when I use it. It's my duty to guard that gift by not hailing things that oppose Him (such as worldliness, sexual immorality, cursing, drugs, etc) - and if I CAN use a Christian theme, I will - but honestly, I usually don't. I completely agree with the quote - we need more Christians writing good books.

 

[Doubtless]

ROTFL!!! That story about the little people made my day.

Lessien, by "Christ at the center" what exactly do you mean?

Sunstruck, I agree. It isn't that I'm TRYING to leave God out of it, it's just that I am a strictly story-first (so long as aforementioned moral codes are not violated), and message afterwards.

 

[Lessien]

What I mean by "Art with Christ at the center" is stories that seem to possess at least some semblance of a Christian worldview. Now, making sure your story has a "Christian worldview" can mean many things, depending on your definition. My fifth grade English book (I was homeschooled and we used the BJU curriculum (BJU=Bob Jones University)) had a section on types of stories and endings, and it said (essentially) that if a story didn't have a happy ending, it wasn't presenting a Christian worldview because it went against the verse that says "All things work together for good." Obviously, I don't agree with that. I say that whatever ending seems best for your story, that's the ending you should go with. Otherwise, a happy ending will seem artificial and contrived.

My definition of "a story with a Christian worldview" is a story that glorifies godly principles: friendship, true love, sacrifice, cooperation, faith in God (although it's not always possible to work this into your story without it sounding preachy, but if you can, more power to ya), etc. It portrays ungodly things (hatred, selfishness, disregard for human life, etc.) as undesirable and harmful.

Make sense? A story can express a Christian worldview and not have a happy ending. It can mirror life as closely as you want it to, warts and all, and end tragically because sometimes life ends tragically. But it portrays Christian morals as the ones that make us human.

 

[Doubtless]

Power to homeschoolers!

I hate Christian schoobooks, not because I'm anti-Christian or anything, but because every Christian textbook I've seen (except my English book, thank heaven!) has said in some way or another, "if this thing doesn't have/do this, this, and this, or if it has/does this, this or this, it's not Christian." and I don't think that's fair to judge things like that. Heck, my history books were trying to tell me (tell, hehe) that I'm not being a good Christian if I vote, hold public office, join the military, or do jury duty.

Anyways, though, not to rant, I find, quite ironically against BJU standards, that nearly every screenplay I write has a tragic ending. ...

I agree that Christ should be at the heart of everything we do, but I think we vary a little about how exactly to accomplish this. I don't know exactly how you view it, but I, being the perfectly insane rebellious, stubborn, writer that I am, don't take any thought on the matter. I write whatever comes, and then examine it afterwards, and see what I've written. I judge my scripts by story and emotion, not by moral standpoints (not saying that you do, or even that it's wrong to judge them thus). If it has something that I personally disagree with (it usually doesn't, because I don't usually write things I don't believe in , but in the script I mentioned, there were some things that were not clear enough, so it seemed to anyone that read them that I had views other than those I have), I will mend what needs mended, so long as it doesn't change character, emotion, story, or anything else.

Subjectivity in writing is such a difficult thing when the characters it is subjected to have wrong ideas...

 

[TexasSky]

I think you can do a tremendous amount of good in the world if your art is art, and your life is Christian, as long as you don't do something with your art no Christian should do.

Examples:

What made Charles Schultz famous was Snoopy and Linus and Charlie Brown. He didn't "preach" in every comic strip he wrote. He did though, when the opportunity was appropriate, use his fame to spread the word of the God via the script. (Linus' famous speech in the Christmas special.) He never denied Christ either.

Jon Hart, the creator of B.C.:
He became famous by creating a hilarious strip about ancient man. He used that strip, at times, to send a message about Christ - but it was not his whole art. If it had been his whole art, he probably wouldn't have been widely syndicated. Since he was widely syndicated, the message reached the unsaved.

Mel Gibson:
One of the biggest box office draws in the history of movies, he used his fame and wealth to produce a movie about the life of Christ. Thousands of unsaved saw it, just because it was Mel Gibson. Though many ridiculed it, they SAW it. That couldn't have happened had he limited all his early work to purely Christian films.

Dolly Parton has some of the most movie Christian songs on her albums that I've ever heard. The albums though, are regular country music albums. Many unsaved are hearing the wonderful story of Peter finding the empty tomb because they bought a country music album. They wouldn't have purchased a "Christian" or "Gospel" album.

The same can be said of books. I know that many say Tolkein's work are actually Christian works. I don't know if I follow their thinking, but I do know that a lot of non-Christians are reading books written by a Christian, and hearing the talk about the possibility that it is written as a Christian message, are exploring more about Christ out of simple curiosity.

We are told me to be IN but not OF the world.
We cannot wittness to a world that we do not communicate with.
Christ, a Jew, embraced Samaritans.
Christ, pure and sinless, loved and dined with notorious sinners.

So, don't produce pornography, but don't limit yourself to art that preaches.

 

[Doubtless]

Wow, great post, TexasSky. I agree 100%! Which, for me, sucks because that means I don't have anything else to say. ...I guess short posts never hurt nobody... (

 

[sunstruckdream]

My definition of "a story with a Christian worldview" is a story that glorifies godly principles: friendship, true love, sacrifice, cooperation, faith in God (although it's not always possible to work this into your story without it sounding preachy, but if you can, more power to ya), etc. It portrays ungodly things (hatred, selfishness, disregard for human life, etc.) as undesirable and harmful.

Well said I completely agree

 

[Lessien]

Power to homeschoolers!

I hate Christian schoobooks, not because I'm anti-Christian or anything, but because every Christian textbook I've seen (except my English book, thank heaven!) has said in some way or another, "if this thing doesn't have/do this, this, and this, or if it has/does this, this or this, it's not Christian." and I don't think that's fair to judge things like that. Heck, my history books were trying to tell me (tell, hehe) that I'm not being a good Christian if I vote, hold public office, join the military, or do jury duty.

I liked the science books because they didn't bash creationism. lol. And I liked some of the stories in the English books, but looking back on that, I honestly can't see how I became a fan of fantasy. There were VERY few fantasy stories in the English books; most of them were realistic or historical fiction. The few fantasy stories they contained were things like "How the Elephant Got His Trunk" or a story about six travellers, all of whom could do something amazing to defeat an evil king. No magic. No epic confrontations between good and evil. No fantastic worlds with fantastic creatures.

Are you serious? Wow....I don't remember anything like that....but I do remember my English book telling me that all stories without explicitly happy endings were anti-Christian. The example they used was (and I'm paraphrasing here).....

Suppose there is a story about a man who breaks his leg in a skiing accident. The story concerns his attempts to get down the mountain and get to help before night falls. If the story ends with him finding help, then that is showing an accurate view of life by showing that God can work through any circumstance. But if it ends with the man at the top of the mountain, still calling for help as night falls, that does not show an accurate view of life. It does not show that God can work through any circumstance.

I can see their logic, but always having a happy ending makes for at least several crappy endings. A happy ending doesn't fit in some stories--just take Of Mice and Men, Romeo and Juliet, Macbeth, The Book Theif....All of those stories just wouldn't be the same if the author had tried for an explicitly happy ending.

Sorry to rant.

 

[Doubtless]

lol. CLP's (Christian Light Publications, a branch of Abeka (or was it A Beka?)) Perspectives of Life In Literature had some cool enough stories, but I found English Literature (Abeka, still, I only did BJU for a short while back in like 6th grade) to have a lot cooler of stories. I liked one fantasy poem, called The Erl-King by Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe. It went WAY against the aforementioned BJU happy-ending theory. It's cool enough that I figured I'd post it.

This is from some website, not from my book, and it varies a bit in wording, but it sounds better, so I'll use this:

Who rides there so late through the night dark and drear?
The father it is, with his infant so dear;
He holdeth the boy tightly clasp'd in his arm,
He holdeth him safely, he keepeth him warm.

"My son, wherefore seek'st thou thy face thus to hide?"
"Look, father, the Erl-King is close by our side!
Dost see not the Erl-King, with crown and with train?"
"My son, 'tis the mist rising over the plain."

"Oh, come, thou dear infant! oh come thou with me!
Full many a game I will play there with thee;
On my strand, lovely flowers their blossoms unfold,
My mother shall grace thee with garments of gold."

"My father, my father, and dost thou not hear
The words that the Erl-King now breathes in mine ear?"
"Be calm, dearest child, 'tis thy fancy deceives;
'Tis the sad wind that sighs through the withering leaves."

"Wilt go, then, dear infant, wilt go with me there?
My daughters shall tend thee with sisterly care.
My daughters by night their glad festival keep,
They'll dance thee, and rock thee, and sing thee to sleep."

"My father, my father, and dost thou not see,
How the Erl-King his daughters has brought here for me?"
"My darling, my darling, I see it aright,
'Tis the aged grey willows deceiving thy sight."

"I love thee, I'm charm'd by thy beauty, dear boy!
And if thou'rt unwilling, then force I'll employ."
"My father, my father, he seizes me fast,
Full sorely the Erl-King has hurt me at last."

The father now gallops, with terror half wild,
He grasps in his arms the poor shuddering child;
He reaches his courtyard with toil and with dread,
The child in his arms finds he motionless, dead.

 

[sunstruckdream]

lol. CLP's (Christian Light Publications, a branch of Abeka (or was it A Beka?)) Perspectives of Life In Literature had some cool enough stories, but I found English Literature (Abeka, still, I only did BJU for a short while back in like 6th grade) to have a lot cooler of stories. I liked one fantasy poem, called The Erl-King by Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe. It went WAY against the aforementioned BJU happy-ending theory. It's cool enough that I figured I'd post it.

This is from some website, not from my book, and it varies a bit in wording, but it sounds better, so I'll use this:

Who rides there so late through the night dark and drear?
The father it is, with his infant so dear;
He holdeth the boy tightly clasp'd in his arm,
He holdeth him safely, he keepeth him warm.

"My son, wherefore seek'st thou thy face thus to hide?"
"Look, father, the Erl-King is close by our side!
Dost see not the Erl-King, with crown and with train?"
"My son, 'tis the mist rising over the plain."

"Oh, come, thou dear infant! oh come thou with me!
Full many a game I will play there with thee;
On my strand, lovely flowers their blossoms unfold,
My mother shall grace thee with garments of gold."

"My father, my father, and dost thou not hear
The words that the Erl-King now breathes in mine ear?"
"Be calm, dearest child, 'tis thy fancy deceives;
'Tis the sad wind that sighs through the withering leaves."

"Wilt go, then, dear infant, wilt go with me there?
My daughters shall tend thee with sisterly care.
My daughters by night their glad festival keep,
They'll dance thee, and rock thee, and sing thee to sleep."

"My father, my father, and dost thou not see,
How the Erl-King his daughters has brought here for me?"
"My darling, my darling, I see it aright,
'Tis the aged grey willows deceiving thy sight."

"I love thee, I'm charm'd by thy beauty, dear boy!
And if thou'rt unwilling, then force I'll employ."
"My father, my father, he seizes me fast,
Full sorely the Erl-King has hurt me at last."

The father now gallops, with terror half wild,
He grasps in his arms the poor shuddering child;
He reaches his courtyard with toil and with dread,
The child in his arms finds he motionless, dead.

Wow...that was pretty sweet...

Hey, happy endings aren't always the way to go. It's a matter of what works best for your story, like someone (I think Lessien?) said. I just finished my first sad-ending project EVER - I hate killing characters off once I'm attached to them, so to counter that, I created a novella which required me to have my MC die at the end. I almost wimped out, but hey - it was good for me, I think =)

 

[Doubtless]

Hmm...sounds like a good tactic, forcing yourself to write something you can't stand writing. *puts on the pondering cap* Hmmm....

 

[MrBF1V3]

I agree with Mr. Lewis. We could also use some more Christian electricians, and Christian police, Christian teachers (yes, there is such a thing), etc. etc. Hey, maybe some more Christians. It's not a person's job that makes them Christian.

A friend once told me that in every good piece of literature you can find a Christ figure, and if you can't find one you can argue for one. I don't know if that's always true, but maybe the ideals found in Christ can find their way into some of the "good guys". You can hardly keep them out sometimes.

Although opting for the Saul/Paul figure can make things really interesting. "Boy was I wrong."

I don't think you can rate whether a story has a Christian view by whether the ending is happy or not. Maybe look for honesty and a sense of justice, or see if humbleness might be a good thing, and if sacrificial love means anything at all.

Just some ideas.

B5

 

[thenewageriseth]

I tend to mix both worlds in my first series
My series NHE! is similar to a Christian version of the 80's Degrassi (cuz 80's Degrassi seemed to be less edgy than today's Degrassi: The Next Generation-not that I have seen the 80's seasons, but I compared both while reading the entry in Wikipedia, and it seems that the newer Degrassi is more EDGIER, but u should know what I mean )

The first book combines situations such as adolescent innocence about sex and love, star-struck interest in music stars, Christian themes, superheroine magical girl elements(look up magical girls-it's an anime and manga genre in Japan-not necessarily EVIL, if u are wondering), some amount of violence and fantasy violence (like in stories and on TV), a small amount of cursing (even in "yat-speak" New Orleans style), and in the second book is a small amount of sexual immorality.
And I want to make sure the book doesn't come off as preachy.

 

[Kokopelli]

Guess I am the lone heathen of the group as most of my writing tends to take a more deistic/gnostic approach when it concerns religion. I merely attempt to write to tell a story. Whether it has a happy ending is up for the reader to decide.

 

[CelticRose]

Tragic endings make me happy. Romeo & Juliette makes me hysterical with laughter.

Story first, all the rest will follow in it's proper place. Christians write from a Christian world view & that will filter through all their writing. The first object should always be to write well. Lewis had it right.

 

[Lessien]

I don't set out to write Christian material, unless it's for a Christian-themed contest or an Easter play. See, I've tried writing several novels with the goal in mind that I'd write a Christian novel that would bring people to their knees in repentance, and they ALL failed. Miserably. When I tried writing them, they just wouldn't work.

Now, I'm writing a Harry Potter fanfic (yes, I'm a nerd and proud of it) where I didn't set out to write a Christian-themed fic. I just set out to tell an entertaining story. And you know what? It's one of the most Christian-themed stories I've ever written--I kept all of Rowling's original themes, then a few of my own manifested themselves--redemption, the sanctity of life, repentance, etc. I didn't try to write a Christian story, but a Christian story is what I ended up writing.

 

[Christianfantasy]

As Christians we don't belong to ourselves; we belong to God, who bought us with a very high price. What this means is that we are servants, not masters. This applies to our writing as well. As such, we don't wake up each day asking what do ***I*** want to write. We wake up and ask what God wants us to write. Seeking His will for the talents and desires He has put within us isn't a quick, short process. If you ask God how He most wants you to use your writing skills, the heavens won't open and a voice won't say, 'I would like you to write excellent stories with no overt Christian themes.' That MAY be His will for you, but that won't be the way He'll communicate it. You have to genuinely ask, and with an open and expectant mind listen for His reply. He will guide you if your desire to serve and please Him above all else is sincere. It's worth the wait, btw, to find His specific will for you. You'll grow closer to Him, and deeper in your faith. Also, if you seek genuinely to please Him, He will bless your work and open doors for it--and isn't that what all of us who are Christians really want?