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C'mon, Phil.
You know that I know nothing about Herman Nudists. - lol
No, my point here in this thread is that the burden of proof is upon the person who supports the assertive viewpoint, and in the context of this thread, the assertive viewpoint is U.R. rather than my viewpoint. So, this means that I'm interested in seeing which questions of coherency (as in the Coherence Theory of Truth) can be answered by proponents of U.R.
This is my angle and I'm being transparent in saying so. There's no posturing in it.
Sounds like hairsplitting to me.
So, how would you define posturing then?
Let's just focus on the point of the OP: How do we "know" who all will ultimately bow before the Lord and be thankful when doing so?
The OP is about hearing what your gut, visceral reaction is, whether for or against, when you hear the words "Christian Universalism".
Well, by all means, let's not be hypocrites then!
Great point. Would God suddenly change from being loving, gracious and forgiving towards us to reaching for His nearest torture instruments, spitting in His hands and settling down for a session of everlasting torment just because we have passed the moment of our death and haven't yet learnt to recognise Him as Lord?
Exactly, tralalalala.
Jesus hands us off to the devil for that job! And as we see, it's not everlasting, but for the purposes of destruction of the flesh to as to save the spirit. Then Jesus returns to unlock the door, bind the strong man and abscond with the goods (aka the souls of men).
It's as though the infernalists see Jesus' loving face as just a facade, but come judgment day all that 'soft mushy stuff' gets put aside, 'nuff mercy, accounts demanded, weighed in the balance and if found wanting, with the flick of a pen consigned to the pit of horrors.
The Jesus of ECT is the Nazi bean counter of Hannah Arendt - the 'banality of evil' Eichmann character who kills millions from his office accounting software. Newsflash for the hellists - Jesus ich not bin ein Berliner - at least not that kind.
I really do sympathise with unbelievers who reject God on the basis of the ECT strawman. On the other hand, profoundly disappointed by why any so-called believer would make ECT their hill to die on.
You really need to stop with this demonizing language about your brothers and sisters in Christ who just happen to disagree with you on this point, SM.
What demonising language?
Through your choice of analogies and attributions, you make it sound like they're corrupt... or something.
It's more that ECT demonises God and Christ, that bothers me.
If you think this is the case, then my observation stands since it sounds like you're making a pretty steep spiritual allegation and judgment upon them---and you're doing this to those who are your own brothers and sisters in Christ!
... I make of those Scripture portions that speak of leaven in association with the Pharisees and also with Herod that we shouldn't claim to be more righteous and zealous for God than we actually are, and that we shouldn't play political cards that betray God's Will in Christ and cause us to fail to lift more than even a finger in love to help our neighbors, and sisters and brothers in Christ.Truth hurts. Jesus expended great effort on trying to disabuse the Pharisees of the insufferable self-assurance that they were heaven-bound and the great unwashed masses were too sinful and bound for eternal hell. That's the leaven of the Pharisees. 'Behold, for publicans and harlots are entering heaven ahead of you!' Now what do you make of that scripture?
Fine. Neither do I. But they are my neighbors.I don't consider pagans to be my brothers and sisters in Christ, whether their paganism is apparent or veiled by a Christian facade.
... I make of those Scripture portions that speak of leaven in association with the Pharisees and also Herod that we shouldn't claim to be more righteous and zealous for God than we actually are, and that we shouldn't play political cards that betray God's Will in Christ and cause us to fail to lift more than even a finger in love to help our neighbors, and sisters and brothers in Christ. Do you read all of this differently in some way?
Right! And I have a gut-wrenching, visceral reaction when I hear people say "they know" this.
How about "knowing in your gut" or "gut instinct"? As you know, that's where one is certain of something, regardless of being able to provide empirical evidence. Or meet some philosophical criteria. It seems to me that one can apply simple faith when it comes to believing in UR and "knowing it to be true" as one does in believing Jesus is the Son of God and the Savior of mankind.
On the other hand, profoundly disappointed by why any so-called believer would make ECT their hill to die on.
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