Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Consider this...Universalism for the most part, though it has many sects, is basically the repackaging of Purgatory in Catholicism. Yes, I would agree Purgatory along with its indulgences was widely accepted until the Reformation. That being said, we who are fighters for truth, rebuke such teachings.
Blessings.
All in Adam and all in Christ are not identical groups, and which is taught elsewhere in the NT.Almost everyone in the church considers the “all” in Adam to be universal in scope, so it’s an iffy misstep to immediately switch from a universal all around Adam and death onto a restricted “all” for the all made alive in Christ.
You're right that, for most Universalists, it amounts to something akin to Purgatory, i.e. a temporary Hell. If that theory were true, it would at least recognize that God is not only loving but also just.Consider this...Universalism for the most part, though it has many sects, is basically the repackaging of Purgatory in Catholicism. Yes, I would agree Purgatory along with its indulgences was widely accepted until the Reformation. That being said, we who are fighters for truth, rebuke such teachings.
Blessings.
So?Well, for the simple reason that I believe universalism is the biblical position.
All in Adam and all in Christ are not identical groups, and which is taught elsewhere in the NT.
So?
Your question is why others don't like it, and they don't like it because they don't agree with your belief.
It's not complicated.
So?
Your question is why others don't like it, and they don't like it because they don't agree with your belief.
It's not complicated.
What is it about universal redemption that annoys so many Christians? Shouldn’t we be happy that God’s love and mercy are wider, higher, deeper, and broader than we could ever imagine? We all sin at times so shouldn't we welcome the thought that God is not going to annihilate or eternally torment us if we don't “accept,” “trust,” “repent,” “believe,” well enough to appropriate the grace of God?
You would think so but it seems from the recent threads on Christian Universalism that this is not the case. Why is this?
Here are some of the reasons that have been expressed in the threads:
1. ”If everyone is or will be saved, what’s the point in following Jesus?”
To me, anyone who thinks this must see following Jesus as a heavy burden, one that needs the reward of heaven to make it worth the hassle. But shouldn't following Jesus and having a good relationship with him here and now be its own reward?
It's also a misunderstanding of Christian Universalism to think it says that we don't have to receive the saving grace of Christ in order to be reconciled to God and to each other. It just says that if we don't manage to do this in this life there will be boundless opportunities to do so in the next one and that eventually every one will accept forgiveness and repent of their sins... ”that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth" (Phil 2:10)
2. "All my hard work at being a Christian has been undermined".
This is very much like 1. Shouldn't any work we do be done out of love for God, not for any personal eternal rewards?
3. ”If there is an 'us,' there has to be a 'them'"
This may be true about some things such as football: I support Manchester United so I hate Manchester City (I'm from the UK, apologies) but it needn't apply to matters of faith. If we are going to heaven when we die there doesn't have to be a group who go to hell.
These three reasons seem to have something in common and that's judgementalism. They're all essentially saying "Look, I'm a good Christian and my hard work and sacrifices has earned me membership into the very exclusive club of heaven and, sad to say it, but most other people haven't done anywhere nearly as enough as me and so, unfortunately, missed out on the opportunity." This makes you think of the work vs. faith debate ironically but, moving swiftly on from that, isn't it true that being judgemental is wrong and if that's the main reason behind our objection to Christian Universalism, shouldn't we consider that we might be misunderstanding it?
There are biblical arguments that can be made for and against Christian Universalism but there are plenty of existing threads discussing that so, assuming anyone wants to respond!, I'd be more interested in hearing what your gut, visceral reaction is, whether for or against, when you hear the words "Christian Universalism". For me, it's basically relief that God is a loving God and not a monster after all.
Because we're to have a love of the truth, not seek out preachers that tickle our ear with nice fantasies.
Jesus talks about hell more than He talked about heaven.
Can you cite a reputable source that supports that that claim? Or have you just made it up?
Because we're to have a love of the truth, not seek out preachers that tickle our ear with nice fantasies.
Jesus talks about hell more than He talked about heaven.
It was made official doctrine in 1274, it was believed for many centuries prior to that.Actually purgatory didn't became a Roman Catholic doctrine until 1274 at the Second Council of Lyon. So if anything purgatory is a repackaging of universalism. No disrespect intended, but I think if you want to be a fighter of the truth, you should endeavor to get the facts straight.
Fact is...its now in Universalism.Actually purgatory didn't became a Roman Catholic doctrine until 1274 at the Second Council of Lyon. So if anything purgatory is a repackaging of universalism. No disrespect intended, but I think if you want to be a fighter of the truth, you should endeavor to get the facts straight.
Can you cite a reputable source that supports that that claim? Or have you just made it up?
It was made official doctrine in 1274, it was believed for many centuries prior to that.
I kept hearing that assertion over and over, that Jesus spoke more of hell than of heaven. So...I decided to tally up the instances. Pay attention: Jesus, by my unbiased tally, spoke of heaven about 6.5 times more often then He did of "hell." Even granted that "hell" is real, which I deny. Of course, Bible versions vary in how many times they use the word "hell" so your mileage may vary...a little.
"Jesus talks about hell more than He talked about heaven." is a fantasy, and a false one.
So, don't repeat that again, my friend.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?