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Christian Universalism. What's not to like?

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Lazarus Short

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Yeah, kinda, sorta. If in fact, it was God Who commanded the killing of men, women, children, the aged and their animals...it was really no big deal. Why? Because God knows, and has told us, that He will be resurrecting them later. I worried about those massacres back in my early days as a Christian, but UR has blotted out that worry. Yes, the Lake of Fire will need to be traversed, but there is still hope.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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... I agree that God will be likely resurrecting "them" later, but I thought their resurrection was going to be to one of judgement rather than salvation. Am I reading the New Testament wrong on this?
 
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Lazarus Short

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I note that Peter does not ID a specific group here. You say it's us. We say it's you. We both say...it's them. Quoting that passage proves nothing unless you see it thru Peter's first century POV.
 
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Lazarus Short

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... I agree that God will be likely resurrecting "them" later, but I thought their resurrection was going to be to one of judgement rather than salvation. Am I reading the New Testament wrong on this?

In my long cruise thru the KJV, I saw (often shown in the marginal notes) "judgment" rendered in the text as "condemnation," and "condemnation" rendered as "damnation." However, if we stick to the more neutral "judgment," it does not carry within itself what the nature of the judgment is...just that something is, or will be, judged.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I usually try not to rely upon marginal notes. It's better to wrestle with the original text(s) as much as possible on these kinds of things, whether it was John who wrote something or Paul.
 
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spiritfilledjm

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I cannot stress this enough: Which Bible?

In my Ferrar Fenton version, my Young's Literal version and "The Scriptures" version, it sounds VERY good.

The same Bible that says no one comes to the Father except through Him (Jesus)...
 
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Maria Billingsley

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I note that Peter does not ID a specific group here. You say it's us. We say it's you. We both say...it's them. Quoting that passage proves nothing unless you see it thru Peter's first century POV.
Ok....
Romans 16:17-18
"I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive."
 
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Lazarus Short

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Still no specific group is identified. To arrive at an answer, we need to rewind and see what was being taught as Truth at that time. Sadly, each side will say, "It was out side!"
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Still no specific group is identified. To arrive at an answer, we need to rewind and see what was being taught as Truth at that time. Sadly, each side will say, "It was out side!"
All Christians led by His Holy Spirit know the truth. This is His promise to us.
" My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
Jesus Christ of Nazareth
 
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spiritfilledjm

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What kind of answer is that? Is there a Bible version that says otherwise?

Apparently, since there are people that argue that everyone goes to heaven no matter what...
 
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Lazarus Short

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Apparently, since there are people that argue that everyone goes to heaven no matter what...

I don't teach "no matter what." I teach that ALL come to the Father (eventually) through Jesus the Christ, Who is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Many will need to traverse the Lake of Fire to have their dross, tares, chaff, wood, hay and stubble burned away. It will not be pleasant, but it will yield the silver and gold that remains. Any questions?
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Purgatory?
 
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spiritfilledjm

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Revelation 20:11-15

Anyone who does not accept Christ as Lord and Savior, those whose names are blotted out, will not just have to walk through the Lake of Fire...they will be thrown into it.
 
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ozso

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I'm sure many apply 2 Peter 2:1-3 to whatever doctrine they don't agree with. Including ones you believe in I'm sure. But I don't see how it practically applies to Christian universalism. Unlike say Mormonism, it's not some movement that suddenly sprang up later on, and it doesn't have any founder/prophet who started it and profited from it. And from what I understand, it wasn't even called a heresy until the 6th century. In fact apparently Gregory of Nyssa (who's known as "the father of fathers" rather than a heretic) was in favor of it.

Now I don't know for sure if it's correct or not, but it seems to me that many objections I see given against it seem unwarranted.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Consider this...Universalism for the most part, though it has many sects, is basically the repackaging of Purgatory in Catholicism. Yes, I would agree Purgatory along with its indulgences was widely accepted until the Reformation. That being said, we who are fighters for truth, rebuke such teachings.
Blessings.
 
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eleos1954

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God is not a monster and He IS Love. There will indeed be those who move on to eternal life and also those who will not .... His Word is very clear on this. Those who do not will be destroyed to never exist again along with satan and his minions ( NOT tortured as some put forth).... only God knows the heart and He is just. We do not know who will and will not be saved .... salvation is totally up to Jesus ... but we do know some will and some won't. Salvation has been in place and available to mankind since the fall of mankind and will continue to be available until Jesus returns after His judgement takes place.
 
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ozso

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But...atheists DON'T teach that those who know Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior will still have existence.

Let's not skip over that finer detail.

But they DO believe in non-existence after death the same as annihilationists. Citing what they don't believe in addition to that particular thing, doesn't negate the fact that atheism and annihilationim both teaches non-existence after death. It seems to me that atheists I know of would prefer annihilation over universalism. That said, I consider annihilation a possibility based on scripture. But it's certainly not free of criticism.
 
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Clare73

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The reason why I'm willing to consider it, is because it has been shown to have Biblical backing.
Which when examined does not hold up Biblically.
 
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Clare73

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Demonstration?
 
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