Christian rules

[DarkProphet]

So I was talking a friend that went to a Christian high school and Christian college. He was commenting that both, even the college, imposed many rules to make people more Christian. Right down to how you were to dance. He mentioned this because he went back to his high school reunion and they STILL imposed those rules on the adults. It was the same at the college level.

Now if God gave us free will and if free will is supposed to be such a great gift why do Christians insist on trying to restrict it with such arbitrary rules?

 

[drich0150]

I stole this from another post, but it does deal with free will, and what free will is..

Sin, Anything not in the expressed will of God.

Evil, Malicious intent to commit Sin.

Not all sin is evil, but all evil is sin.

All sin, evil or not, because of the true nature of righteousness deserves Death.

Freewill Is the ability to choose, do or think of something not in the will of God.

If we chose something in God's will, then we would in fact be in God's will and not in our own.. So to exercise freewill is to sin..

Why would God place us in a position to sin? Because He wants us to choose to be with Him.. In order for their to be a legitimate decision their needs to be an actual choice, or at the very least, the ability to choose..

Unfortunately in order for us to be given this choice we automatically disqualify ourselves from the ability to be with God. Unless something pure or without sin, pays for something unclean or someone sinful.. This principle was established in the Jewish covenant, through animal sacrifices. And, later made perfect through the sacrifice of Jesus. So once and for all, that any who seek God will be able to find him..

So why does we want us to choose and not simply let all into heaven??

Somewhere between the beginning of creation and the fall of Man He did this very thing. In the angels he populated heaven with.. Even knowing exactly who God was and all that He had to offer, a large portion of them did not want to be with Him, and risked literal Hell to get away from him..

He could have just assigned all those He knew to be righteous a place in Heaven and all those who would not want to be with him a place in Hell.. But if you were one of those placed in Hell a split second after being created would you cry out for justice? Mercy or even a simple chance to prove to God and yourself that you would in fact choose him?

So, Because He is truly a righteous God He has given us this life to prove to ourselves where we'd like to spend eternity, rather than simply assigning us there without a chance for us to know for ourselves. He has given us the right and ability to choose (through the blood of Jesus) for ourselves our own eternal fate.

So free will, is a very costly gift from God. (Not satan) For the purpose and exercise of true Godly righteousness.. Also know, Satan is not the ruler of sin. He's just very good at it, and even better at using our own pride, and our own sense of puffed up importance to heard some of us into organized groups of "religiously practiced unbelievers." Having some of us use, the very same core elements of Faith, Belief, and submission in the non believers religion, as all of those who worship the one and True God. And yet He is able to keep all of this hidden from them, by placing it behind the pride of there own "intelligence.."

 

[drich0150]

why do Christians insist on trying to restrict it with such arbitrary rules?

I believe that "pop christians" restrict themselves with arbitrary rules, so that they may give the appearance of "Holiness" for others to witness.. Because the rules tend to only apply to the outward actions of the potential rule breaker. The insides or inner feelings are what would make a person (in this case) want to dance inappropriately are left to fester..

Jesus tells us this is simply "washing the outside of our cups." Meaning we may appear clean on the outside, but are filthy on the inside.. This "cup washing" is a detestable behavior to the Lord.

 

[Bible2]

DarkProphet posted in message #1 of this thread:

if God gave us free will and if free will is supposed to be such a
great gift why do Christians insist on trying to restrict it with such
arbitrary rules?

Greetings.

Note that free will doesn't mean that it's good to do whatever one
may want to do, for some things one may want to do could be sins
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21). Any rules set up by
Christians should not be arbitrary, but should be in line with the rules
set up by Jesus himself and his apostles in the Bible (e.g. Matthew
5:23-7:27; 1 Corinthians 14:37). Christians must obey these Biblical
rules if they want to be saved in the end (Hebrews 5:9, Matthew
7:21, Romans 2:6-8), and if they want to truly know Jesus and God
the Father in the present (John 14:21-24, 15:14), instead of drifting
off into some no-rules la-la land of human invention (2 Timothy 4:3-4)
or demonic invention (1 Timothy 4:1-2).

DarkProphet posted in message #1 of this thread:

"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and
product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable,
but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No
interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -
Albert Einstein

This just goes to show that human pride over mere-intellect can be
a hindrance to coming into a knowledge of God. The word God is an
expression of human weaknesses insofar as humans by themselves
cannot keep themselves alive forever (Psalms 22:29b), only God can
(John 3:16). And humans did not create themselves, only God did
(Psalms 100:3). And humans by themselves cannot keep themselves
from sin, only God and they can do that together (John 8:34-36,
Galatians 5:16).

The Bible is not a collection of legends, but infallible, God-inspired
writings (2 Timothy 3:16, 2 Peter 1:21). The New Testament is
based upon the eyewitness testimony of the apostles of Jesus Christ
(2 Peter 1:16, 1 John 1, Luke 1:2, Hebrews 2:3).

How can the Bible be "honourable" and yet at the same time be
"childish"? The truth is that the Bible is in no way childish. But
people do need to lay aside their pride in their mere-intellect and
humble themselves before God as little children (become childlike,
not childish) if they want to be saved (Matthew 18:3-4), if they
want God to miraculously grant them the gift of faith (Ephesians 2:8)
and the Holy Spirit without which mere, infinitesimal humans (Isaiah
40:17) cannot possibly hope to ever be able to understand and
accept the infinite God's profound teachings in the Bible
(1 Corinthians 2:11-14, Isaiah 55:6-11), and with which even a child
can understand them (2 Timothy 3:15).

"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached
unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By
which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto
you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of
all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins
according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he
rose again the third day according to the scriptures" (1 Corinthians
15:1-4). "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only
begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish,
but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to
condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth
not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name
of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that
light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than
light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil
hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should
be reproved" (John 3:16-20).

 

[JohnDeereFan]

So I was talking a friend that went to a Christian high school and Christian college. He was commenting that both, even the college, imposed many rules to make people more Christian. Right down to how you were to dance. He mentioned this because he went back to his high school reunion and they STILL imposed those rules on the adults. It was the same at the college level.

Now if God gave us free will and if free will is supposed to be such a great gift why do Christians insist on trying to restrict it with such arbitrary rules?

This is akin to the brilliant atheist logic that says "God is mean in the Old Testament. Therefore, there is no God."

Rules don't restrict free will. God gave laws against murder and yet, there's not a thing stopping you from murdering.

Rules or not, you have the free will to do whatever you want, as long as you're willing to accept the consequences.

Why doesn't the Christian high school have the free will to allow what kind of activities they want on their property?

 

[DarkProphet]

This is akin to the brilliant atheist logic that says "God is mean in the Old Testament. Therefore, there is no God."

Rules don't restrict free will. God gave laws against murder and yet, there's not a thing stopping you from murdering.

Rules or not, you have the free will to do whatever you want, as long as you're willing to accept the consequences.

Freedom at the point of a gun is not freedom.

Why doesn't the Christian high school have the free will to allow what kind of activities they want on their property?

I never said the Christian high school shouldn't have the right to set these rules but remember that the kids are not there on their own volition. They are forcing these rules on the kids (and adults) in a situation where the consequences are so overbearing that there really is no real choice. I'm questioning this contradiction in Christian thinking, especially considering the backlash it creates.

 

[nhisname]

So I was talking a friend that went to a Christian high school and Christian college. He was commenting that both, even the college, imposed many rules to make people more Christian. Right down to how you were to dance. He mentioned this because he went back to his high school reunion and they STILL imposed those rules on the adults. It was the same at the college level.

Now if God gave us free will and if free will is supposed to be such a great gift why do Christians insist on trying to restrict it with such arbitrary rules?

Once you are in someone elses' house you abide by their rules right? Why would he think the rules would change after he became an adult?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Freedom at the point of a gun is not freedom.

We're not talking about freedom. We're talking about free will.

I never said the Christian high school shouldn't have the right to set these rules but remember that the kids are not there on their own volition.

Yeah, because Christian schools are notorious for kidnapping children and forcing them to attend.

They are forcing these rules on the kids (and adults) in a situation where the consequences are so overbearing that there really is no real choice.

Of course there's a choice: don't attend that school and go find another school that allows you to do whatever you want.

I'm questioning this contradiction in Christian thinking, especially considering the backlash it creates.

How is it a contradiction?

 

[ephraimanesti]

Now if God gave us free will and if free will is supposed to be such a great gift why do Christians insist on trying to restrict it with such arbitrary rules?

MY FRIEND,

In order for freewill to be "free" it must be exercised. In order for it to be exercised there must be choices. In order for there to be choices there must be rules. Rules do not restrict--they set us free by providing the necessary guidelines to enable Christians to follow their Primary freely-made over-arching choice to Love, Honor, and Obey God.

Atheists, on the other hand, have no freewill (and, in fact, mostly deny such an ability even exists) because, supposing themselves to be nothing more than highly evolved animals, they lack the ability to choose the Good because they are slaves to their animal instincts, consider all "rules" as being "arbitrary" if they contravene these instincts, and, as a result, coming up with bizzare ideas such as a woman's "inalienable right" to murder her unborn child on a whim or the social applications--seen in atheistic countries such as Soviet Russia, Communist China, Kymer Rouge controlled-Cambodia, etc.--of the prime atheist dogma of "the survival of the fittest".

Dear Lord, in the exercise of my freewill, i ask You to ALWAYS "restrict" my behavior in accordance with Your perfect Will!

ephraim

 

[Bible2]

DarkProphet posted in message #6 of this thread:

Freedom at the point of a gun is not freedom.

Greetings.

Even the freest countries will still let their police forces bring out
their guns if one is breaking certain rules (i.e. if one is in the act of
committing certain crimes). Freedom does not require lawlessness
and anarchy. Indeed, lawlessness and anarchy can ultimately result
in the loss of all freedoms as the most ruthless members of a society
take over and enslave the rest.

The irony is that when people try to break free from God's rules and
sin all they want, instead of finding freedom, they only find
enslavement to sin and Satan (John 8:34, 2 Timothy 2:26,
Romans 6:16-23).

 

[Sketcher]

So I was talking a friend that went to a Christian high school and Christian college. He was commenting that both, even the college, imposed many rules to make people more Christian. Right down to how you were to dance. He mentioned this because he went back to his high school reunion and they STILL imposed those rules on the adults. It was the same at the college level.

Now if God gave us free will and if free will is supposed to be such a great gift why do Christians insist on trying to restrict it with such arbitrary rules?

Well, at least they allow dancing there. Which is more than can be said for a lot of places, which IMO, is unfortunate.

Some rules are needed. I mean, if a Christian college allows Animal House-style parties on campus, that doesn't say anything good about the college. Christian institutions are generally expected to be a cut above compared to their secular counterparts in the morality department, and rightly so. The problems occur when those who make the rules become out of touch and focus on minutae (i.e., there is a Bible college I completely wrote off because it wouldn't let students listen to any music with a drum beat) rather than on what has value, and when they take a more authoritarian approach rather than letting people know that these rules are about loving God and loving your neighbor.

 

[salida]

So, your blaming God to some remote christian school who has rules that maybe legalistic and not reasonable? Jesus said to inspect the fruits to see if they are christian or not. Also, what rules were they? Why it is so difficult to respect these rules? What is the problem? Its their school.

 

[bliz]

So I was talking a friend that went to a Christian high school and Christian college. He was commenting that both, even the college, imposed many rules to make people more Christian. Right down to how you were to dance. He mentioned this because he went back to his high school reunion and they STILL imposed those rules on the adults. It was the same at the college level.

Now if God gave us free will and if free will is supposed to be such a great gift why do Christians insist on trying to restrict it with such arbitrary rules?

God has given all of us very few rules, starting with the 10 Commandments, and a few other rules as well. What happens with groups of Christians is #1 - clarifying the rule. Honor the Sabbath and keep it holy is God's rule. Humans will make it clearer by saying "That means you go to church, don't do any work or vigorous play, don't buy anything." Different groups of Christians define this differently. Some Christians think it's fine to have a big sit down dinner, which is a lot of work for somebody, while other groups think Christians should eat sandwiches or casseroles that can largely be prepared before the Sabbath.

When groups of Christians live and function together, it will be simpler if there is one clarification about the rules - as at a college or a Christian school.

However, groups often come up with far more rules and details than God did. "Women can only wear dresses and skirts to church and they must at least cover the knee." While the Bible advocates for modesty in dress (for everyone) it doesn't dictate what modestly looks like in every culture for all of time.

Some groups of Christians are into lots of rules an regulations and some are not. My kids attended a Christian high school where the dress code read: Neat, Clean and Modest. When they looked at Christian colleges who had a lot more rules, they were very uneasy.

Some people are very uncomfortable with too much freedom and not having everything defined. These folks will be happier and more comfortable with a church that has lots of extra rules so they don't need to think for themselves "Is this pair of jeans appropriate for the occasion?" Others are more comfortable with fewer things defined by people and more focus on the spirit of the law. Both groups are Christian and trying to do as God instructed. As a college professor of mine always said "Our psychology defines our theology."

It's always helpful to ask, "Is this God's rule or man's rule?" A community has every right to make it's own rules about behavior, so long as they don't confuse community rules with God's rules.

 

[DarkProphet]

So, your blaming God to some remote christian school who has rules that maybe legalistic and not reasonable?

How would you get that? I'm blaming Christians for being tyrannical to the detriment of their children and their own ideals.

Jesus said to inspect the fruits to see if they are christian or not.

Does it count if it's not your own choice?

Also, what rules were they?

Dress code rules and rules against dancing certain ways.

Why it is so difficult to respect these rules?

It's not.

What is the problem?

The contradiction between the idea of freewill and Christian insistence on overbearing rules and regulations.

Its their school.

Yes it is.

 

[DarkProphet]

It's always helpful to ask, "Is this God's rule or man's rule?" A community has every right to make it's own rules about behavior, so long as they don't confuse community rules with God's rules.

I think this is part of the problem. They give out these rules as "Christian" rules and tie it directly to religion. You are not a good Christian if you don't follow these arbitrary rules. Except of course if you were truly a "good Christian" you wouldn't need rules to tell you what to do. Trying to force people to be a "good Christian" seems foolish.

 

[bliz]

I call it the Christian Game - people playing at being Christian by following all the rules and using the right translation of scripture and singing the right songs and dressing the right way... And it's all external. It's not about the condition of the heart.

 

[ephraimanesti]

Trying to force people to be a "good Christian" seems foolish.

Perhaps if you understood, accepted, and acted upon the reality of God and the bindingness of His Commandments on us, you would feel differently.

ephraim

 

[ebia]

So I was talking a friend that went to a Christian high school and Christian college. He was commenting that both, even the college, imposed many rules to make people more Christian. Right down to how you were to dance. He mentioned this because he went back to his high school reunion and they STILL imposed those rules on the adults. It was the same at the college level.

Now if God gave us free will and if free will is supposed to be such a great gift why do Christians insist on trying to restrict it with such arbitrary rules?

Any school ball is going to have some boundaries, and those boundaries will reflect the culture and expectations of the school community - particularly those of the parent body- and the expressed values and policies of the school.

 

[Bible2]

DarkProphet posted in message #15 of this thread:

You are not a good Christian if you don't follow these arbitrary rules.

Greetings.

Note that it hasn't actually been shown what rules are "arbitrary"
instead of having well-thought-out reasons behind them. For
example, immodest clothing can incite lust, as can certain ways of
dancing; and lust is a sin (2 Peter 2:10).

DarkProphet posted in message #15 of this thread:

if you were truly a "good Christian" you wouldn't need rules to tell
you what to do.

Actually, without rules from God, no Christian would know for sure
what is a sin and what isn't. We can't always go by our own
conscience, for "He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool"
(Proverbs 28:26); "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man,
but the end thereof are the ways of death" (Proverbs 14:12). God
gave the Bible to Christians "for reproof, for correction, for
instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect"
(2 Timothy 3:16-17).

DarkProphet posted in message #15 of this thread:

Trying to force people to be a "good Christian" seems foolish.

No one can force any Christian to obey God's rules in the Bible, but
a Christian cannot keep his salvation without obeying them
(Matthew 7:21, Hebrews 5:9, Romans 2:6-8), just as a Christian
cannot truly know Jesus and God the Father without obeying them
(John 14:21-24, John 15:14).

 

[freeport]

So I was talking a friend that went to a Christian high school and Christian college. He was commenting that both, even the college, imposed many rules to make people more Christian. Right down to how you were to dance. He mentioned this because he went back to his high school reunion and they STILL imposed those rules on the adults. It was the same at the college level.

Now if God gave us free will and if free will is supposed to be such a great gift why do Christians insist on trying to restrict it with such arbitrary rules?

You have the Gospels, this speaks on all this. Have you not read them in all of your years?

Did the Pharisees really sit on the seat of Moses that following them was right? Or do modern day Pharisees really sit on the seat of Jesus that following them is right?

You believe plenty of men who speak for themselves, if you do not believe Jesus who speaks for God -- there is no excuse to blame it on men whom you yourself right here admit are wrong.

You only empower such people.

That makes you friends with them.

There are plenty of good Christians in America who are not Pharisees.

Those people are not ashamed of what Jesus has to say.

All you are doing is denying the truth of the matter: Jesus said it first. Yet, you are denying Him.

I expect you may be partly doing this because of anger at Pharisees, seeing that they do not truly teach what Jesus teaches. But, this is hypocrisy when you actually deny Jesus... hypocrisy and theft.

Like so many.