Christian Philosophy

[Jon_]

Lately, I've been wanting to interact on a deeper level with other Christians regarding philosophy for apologetic purposes. I've been fairly active in apologetics on MSN, with many of these people being well-versed in philosophy and such. Now, none of what they have presented has been any good, but one girl in particular seems to keep coming back with more and more knowledgable friends of hers. I can tell she's trying to find someone to "beat me."

Anyway, I've sort of figured out a title for my particular approach to apologetics that I think summarizes it well: Biblical Rationalism. I think Gordon Clark and Vincent Cheung might have used this label for their own systems. I think Clark's philosophy is much better, though. I've been rethinking Cheung's doctrine of Occasionalism lately and have found it untenable and unscriptural.

I was wondering if anyone knew of any forums, bulletin boards, chatrooms, etc. where Christians frequently interact in apologetics and Christian views of philosophy, particularly epistemology. I've been coming to a formation of a solid construction of epistemology that I think correctly conforms to the Bible and I would like to submit this view to criticism by other Christians that are interested.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[StAnselm]

Yeah, I've noticed that you're a Christian Rationalist...

Well, I might not agree with you, but I don't have the philosophical background to take you on.

Have you tried A Better Country?

 

[Jon_]

Yeah, I've noticed that you're a Christian Rationalist...

Well, I might not agree with you, but I don't have the philosophical background to take you on.

What if I were to provide some milk and cookies during the discussion?

.
.
.

ANYTHING TO BRING YOU TO THE DARKSIDE!!! MWA HA HA!!!

Actually, it would be helpful if you could describe how I come across, and I mean that honestly. When you say that you noticed I'm a Christian rationalist, what is it that prompts you to say that? I am honestly looking for a critique, so be as brutal as necessary.

Have you tried A Better Country?

I'll check it out. Thanks.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[Defcon]

What if I were to provide some milk and cookies during the discussion?

I don't know what that (Christian Rationalist) means; but if you throw in some coffee- I'm game......

 

[seekingpurity047]

Rationalism is sweet..... Just using reasoning and stuff... it's spectacular.

Amen. Jon, you are my hero. lol.....

Randy

 

[Carrye]

What kind of philosophy are you interested in, Jon?

 

[Rick Otto]

Carrye, whaddaya mean, "what kind"?
Are you being facetious, or did you forget the name of this thread?
I don't mean to be obtuse, butchya confused me a li'l.


Jon,
I've seen you appear intimidating, but it looked like it was in a place you took less seriously, so you cut yourself a little slack. No problem.
But the Philosophy crowd requires, and to a degree deserves, more decorum... even though that doesn't always curb their malice.
If you want to get one off your porch, you have to pay him for the pizza

Follow the fun unless this is a work you are willing to suffer for to build. Then ya have to take some failure in stride since it is a necessary ingredient to eventual successful endeavor.

Do I sound preachy?

I detest pontification

It is odious

 

[Carrye]

Carrye, whaddaya mean, "what kind"?
Are you being facetious, or did you forget the name of this thread?
I don't mean to be obtuse, butchya confused me a li'l.

Christian philosophy is not a single corpus, Rick. I was asking for more details - who is he interested in reading? On what topics? Etc.

 

[Rick Otto]

You mean what kind of Christian philosophy.
I 'm dimly aware of there being sub-genres.

Jon,
ya might check out this guy. He's a Simi Valley egghead exec.
Good sense of humor, too:

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/

I'd be interested in your opinion-at-a-glance.
He might have some links that could lead your closer to where you want to go.

 

[Jon_]

I've seen you appear intimidating, but it looked like it was in a place you took less seriously, so you cut yourself a little slack. No problem.

I can understand that sometimes I sound intimidating. It is not something that I set out to do. It just sort of happens. The phrase "train of thought" comes to mind. When I start thinking, it's like a runaway freight train that just runs stuff down. Not that the train is carrying anything worth keeping. It's just running hard and fast.

But the Philosophy crowd requires, and to a degree deserves, more decorum... even though that doesn't always curb their malice.

I'm not sure all philosophy deserves that. Secular philosophers are nothing but fools, after all (1 Co. 1:20). But I get your drift.

If you want to get one off your porch, you have to pay him for the pizza

I thought that was amateur musicians...

Follow the fun unless this is a work you are willing to suffer for to build. Then ya have to take some failure in stride since it is a necessary ingredient to eventual successful endeavor.

This is definitely something for which I am willing to suffer. I think that a sound apologetic is something that Protestant theology has been lacking since the 18th century. Even the great Princetonians were Evidentialists, being completely unaware of the inherent problems with the approach. I expect to be persecuted and ridiculed for my particular approach, which is very similar to Gordon Clark. He was persecuted and hounded to his death by the Westminster and Van Til cronies.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[Jon_]

What kind of philosophy are you interested in, Jon?

Christian Philosophy.

Christian philosophy is not a single corpus, Rick. I was asking for more details - who is he interested in reading? On what topics? Etc.

I am not talking about reading specific people. I have already done extensive reading on the subject and will continue to devour volume after volume on the subject. I am looking to begin a positive construction of my own system and to interact with other Christian philosophers (iron sharpens iron, etc.).

As far as topics go, epistemology would be my primary concern. Most of the standard disciplines of philosophy overlap with theology. Since theology is the natural extension of a Christian epistemology, whatever theory of knowledge conceived must naturally precede the theology that it proves. Since I am thoroughly Reformed in my theology, this immediately dismisses any kind of evidential or Thomistic constructions.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[Seaioth]

Depends I guess... not ALL philosophy is bad, but drawing intellectual logic outside of scripture, is really doing God is dis-service. I mean whether you use a foundationlist like E.D. Hirsh or Augustine (which are both on the Norton's Anthology of Theory and Criticism as Philosophers)

As for secular philosophy, both Nietzche and Althusser went mad by the end of their lives btw, as did Nebachanezzar hmmm sheer conincidence?

I still side with presuppositional apologetics, but I suppose there can be some liberty there.... but the ordained way is always through God's Word.

Colossians 2:4,8
I tell you this so that no one may deceieve you by fine-sounding arguments.

See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

 

[Jon_]

Depends I guess... not ALL philosophy is bad, but drawing intellectual logic outside of scripture, is really doing God is dis-service. I mean whether you use a foundationlist like E.D. Hirsh or Augustine (which are both on the Norton's Anthology of Theory and Criticism as Philosophers)

As for secular philosophy, both Nietzche and Althusser went mad by the end of their lives btw, as did Nebachanezzar hmmm sheer conincidence?

I still side with presuppositional apologetics, but I suppose there can be some liberty there.... but the ordained way is always through God's Word.

Colossians 2:4,8
I tell you this so that no one may deceieve you by fine-sounding arguments.

See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

Actually, this is precisely what I mean. When I call myself a "bibilcal rationalist" I mean that I argue we can only know (this leads into my epistemology) what is declared to us in the word of God. I argue that humans beings can come to no knowledge by themselves. You do not know you were born to human parents, you do not know even your own name. These are are considered judgments or beliefs in my theory, and while true, they do not have the necessary biblical justification to qualify as knowledge.

And that is why I was hoping to bounce this off of some other people. Many would say this completely flies in the face of of common sense, etc., etc. But I contend that it does not.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon