Christian newby questions...

solid_core · Oct 14, 2019

Another_uniqueUsername said:
A teacher has to give a perfect example and I believe Jesus did just that.

The death on the cross was not just some kind of "example". It was a completion of all Law and Prophets - a perfect sacrifice for sins.

He was not just a teacher, He was also a Savior.

Albion · Oct 14, 2019

Another_uniqueUsername said:
Correct me if I am wrong but the saturday sabbath was changed by Rome and saturday is still the correct sabbath.

The Roman Catholic Church still considers Saturday to be the Sabbath. That is why Saturday evening Masses are considered to discharge the people's "Sunday Obligation," so-called.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 14, 2019

Another_uniqueUsername said:
Ok thanks to the person who after my introduction told me about this area for asking my questions..via a link. Thank you love

1: My GoodNews bible (or the author of this translation) states amongst Jesus' words in brackets () where its said that "Jesus declared all foods are fit for consumption"
(Mark or Matthew I think...sorry for poor quotation as Im on a mobile phone and I find difficult to copy and paste at present...its the "it is not what goes into a man but which comes out which defile him" quote...seems different depending on what bible you have)
Is Jesus talking about the sin of unclean foods, or does it mean should anyone say with his mouth (which comes out of a man/mans mouth) that its ok to eat pork (ie he who tells a lie against the instruction from God who commands man NOT to eat pork because it is forbidden) or is this a reference to bodily fluids/sperm if your a man?

2: Jesus (inc the OT prophets) makes many warnings about the "yeast" of the Pharisee , if this means the "expansion of their teachings" where does this leave Paul who says he is a Pharisee?

Thanks

As for #1:

Do not refuse to eat any creature of God or any part of any creature; For every creature of God is good to eat if it be received with thanksgiving; For it is sanctified by the word of God and [thankful] prayer (1 Timothy 4:4-5).

Bible Highlighter · Oct 14, 2019

Another_uniqueUsername said:
2: Jesus (inc the OT prophets) makes many warnings about the "yeast" of the Pharisee , if this means the "expansion of their teachings" where does this leave Paul who says he is a Pharisee?

Thanks

As for #2:

Paul used to be a Pharisee. That did not mean he remained that way when he became a Christian.

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 14, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
As for #2:

Paul used to be a Pharisee. That did not mean he remained that way when he became a Christian.

biblehub.com/philippians/3-5.htm
Pharisee. Acts 23:6 But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council,

Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee,

the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question. Acts 26:4,5

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 14, 2019

Another_uniqueUsername said:
2: Jesus (inc the OT prophets) makes many warnings about the "yeast" of the Pharisee , if this means the "expansion of their teachings" where does this leave Paul who says he is a Pharisee?

Yahushua Hamashiach Himself Taught the Apostle Paul as an emissary of the True Gospel of Jesus . Thus Paul's teachings are from Yahuweh, as written, and are all in line with all Scripture, and in perfect harmony with Yahuweh's Plan and Purpose and Salvation in Jesus.

Another_uniqueUsername · Oct 14, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
As for #2:

Paul used to be a Pharisee. That did not mean he remained that way when he became a Christian.

Hi Bible Highlighter
If I was to emulate Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:20....In modern times should I become a Muslim to win (ie convert) Muslims to Pauls faith?
Also..
Why did Paul have Timothy circumsised?

fwGod · Oct 14, 2019

Another_uniqueUsername said:
Ok thanks to the person who after my introduction told me about this area for asking my questions..via a link. Thank you love

1: My GoodNews bible (or the author of this translation) states amongst Jesus' words in brackets () where its said that "Jesus declared all foods are fit for consumption"
(Mark or Matthew I think...

Mrk.7:19. So did the apostle Paul.
1 Tim.4:2-4
1 Now the Spirit expressly states that in later times some will abandon the faith to follow deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons,
2 influenced by the hypocrisy of liars, whose consciences are seared with a hot iron.
3 They will prohibit marriage and require abstinence from certain foods that God has created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
4 For every creation of God is good, and nothing that is received with thanksgiving should be rejected.

Another_uniqueUsername said:
sorry for poor quotation as Im on a mobile phone and I find difficult to copy and paste at present...its the "it is not what goes into a man but which comes out which defile him" quote...seems different depending on what bible you have)

Is Jesus talking about the sin of unclean foods, or does it mean should anyone say with his mouth (which comes out of a man/mans mouth)

Jesus is talking about the words that come out of his mouth.
Mat.15:10-11
"10 Jesus called the crowd to Him and said, “Listen and understand.
11 A man is not defiled by what enters his mouth, but by what comes out of it.”

Matthew 12:37
"For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."

Another_uniqueUsername said:
that its ok to eat pork (ie he who tells a lie against the instruction from God who commands man NOT to eat pork because it is forbidden)

Jesus taught the Jews according to the Jewish laws.

The apostle Paul taught the gentiles according to the new testament grace.

There are health reasons why a person would not eat pork foods. But there's no moral condemnation for it.

Another_uniqueUsername said:
or is this a reference to bodily fluids/sperm if your a man?

No. Jesus never taught about that.

Another_uniqueUsername said:
2: Jesus (inc the OT prophets) makes many warnings about the "yeast" of the Pharisee , if this means the "expansion of their teachings" where does this leave Paul who says he is a Pharisee?

He isn't a pharisee according to the law, he's a Biblical teacher according to God's word under grace.

When Jesus spoke of the leaven of the pharisees, he was referring to their knowledge that only puffed themselves up. Their traditions choked the proper function of God's word and restricted His ways. And, put extremely heavy burdens on the people.

The epistles of Paul speak of grace and deliverance from the law's burdens.
Galatians 5:1
"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of bondage."

Another_uniqueUsername said:
Thanks

Another_uniqueUsername · Oct 14, 2019

fwGod said:
.....They will prohibit marriage and require abstinence from certain foods that God has created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

That does not make any sense at all to me.
Who is "They" ?
The law offers protection to lawabiders as far as Im aware, if EVERYONE was able to live by the law (including the punishments) who would be an "outlaw" or how would evil flourish? There is no deterent for murderers if their government does not punish their crime but leaves victims without justice? How would a family who had the head of their house hold. murdered appreciate the murderers "freedom"?
I guess if the homosexual/rainbow peoples lobby gets into power they might forbid marriage because they no longer honour the living God' institution of marriage anyway or at least as it was prescribed in the first Book of the bible....(one mum and one dad) but that is a side to the discussion of forbidden foods.
I have read somewhere 1 of the 7 Noachide laws states "No meat must be eaten with the animals blood still in it"
Is this what you refer too? Or Halal ?

Bible Highlighter · Oct 14, 2019

Another_uniqueUsername said:
Hi Bible Highlighter
If I was to emulate Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:20....In modern times should I become a Muslim to win (ie convert) Muslims to Pauls faith?
Also..
Why did Paul have Timothy circumsised?

No. Paul is not saying that we should join a religion in order to convert them. He is saying that we can appear to speak in a way that is from their angle or perspective of how they see things (without it compromising the truths taught to us in the New Testament).

Paul encouraged Timothy to be circumcised (obviously not for salvation), but so that Timothy could be able to travel in a region that was dominated by Jews.

fwGod · Oct 14, 2019

Another_uniqueUsername said:
That does not make any sense at all to me.
Who is "They"

I quoted the 1st through the 4th verses. The first and second verses identifies "they".

1. some will abandon the faith to follow deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons,
2 influenced by the hypocrisy of liars, whose consciences are seared with a hot iron.
3 They will prohibit marriage and require abstinence from certain foods that God has created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

Aside from those I mention below, I have no idea if there be any contemporary group that would fit those verses.

Another_uniqueUsername said:
I guess if the homosexual/rainbow peoples lobby gets into power they might forbid marriage because they no longer honour the living God' institution of marriage prescribed in the first Book of the bible....but that is a side to the discussion of forbidden foods (as commanded by the living God)

The only comparison I ever thought of concerning those who forbid marriage.. are the Catholics.. and the former cult "Heavens Gate". The context implied a religious group, not any atheist homosexual group.

Another_uniqueUsername said:
I have read somewhere 1 of the 7 Noachide laws states "No meat must be eaten with the animals blood still in it"
Is this what you refer too? Or Halal ?

No. The scriptures I gave should make it clear that I refer to what Paul taught the gentile Christians.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 14, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
biblehub.com/philippians/3-5.htm
Pharisee. Acts 23:6 But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council,

Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee,

the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question. Acts 26:4,5

Paul is calling upon his old title as being a Pharisee, but Paul no longer practiced the Pharisee religion that denied Jesus as the Messiah, and that also focused on man made traditions that Jesus condemned.

In other words, it would be like saying that one is a license auto mechanic. That does not mean they are a practicing auto mechanic. Such a person could have recently changed jobs from being a mechanic, but they still hold the title of being an auto mechanic because they still have their license.

Another_uniqueUsername · Oct 14, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
No. Paul is not saying that we should join a religion in order to convert them. He is saying that we can appear to speak in a way that is from their angle or perspective of how they see things (without it compromising the truths taught to us in the New Testament).

Paul encouraged Timothy to be circumcised (obviously not for salvation), but so that Timothy could be able to travel in a region that was dominated by Jews.

Paul set his own example so while he may not preach this example (as he claimed he was a teacher) he did at least show us he put this style of conversion into practice?
(....by their fruits ye shall know them...)
Also....Is Paul not simply claiming indirectly a call to compatibility where there is none?

Many if not the vast majority of adherents to the religion of Judaism simply don't believe in Jesus, because they are....adherents of their chosen religion, likewise Muslims say they recognise Jesus but believe Mohammed is a prophet from Allah and clearly hold to his teachings above Jesus.
A Wolf in sheeps clothing is still a Wolf.
If the same analogy was used regarding espionage a spy who infiltrates a country and adopts their language and culture is accepted by his master as an effective spy?
( I am not calling Saul/Paul a spy but I do explain my confusion with the use of an analogy to make my point clear only).

Original Happy Camper · Oct 14, 2019

Another_uniqueUsername

Bible Highlighter said:
As for #1:

Do not refuse to eat any creature of God or any part of any creature; For every creature of God is good to eat if it be received with thanksgiving; For it is sanctified by the word of God and [thankful] prayer (1 Timothy 4:4-5).

Question 3: Doesn’t 1 Timothy 4:3-4 tell us that we can eat anything if we pray over it first?
Answer: Let’s observe what the verses actually say:

Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving (1 Timothy 4:3-4).

Paul is telling Timothy about false believers who will “depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils” (1 Timothy 4:1). They are in error—no longer following the Scriptures.

Paul tells Timothy these false teachers will command people to “abstain from meats.” But what kind of meats? 1 Timothy 4:3 tells us these are not unclean meats but meats that “God hath created to be received with thanksgiving.” This cannot mean unclean animals, because they were never intended to be eaten!
These clean meats are to be “received with thanksgiving of them that believe and know the truth” (1 Timothy 4:3). Believe and know the truth about what? Obviously, the truth about clean and unclean animals.
1 Timothy 4:4 says, “For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving.” This does not mean that every created being is permitted to be eaten. If this were the meaning, cannibalism would justified. Rather, this verse refers to the previous verse’s clean animals. Those who “believe and know the truth” will receive “with thanksgiving.”
1 Timothy 5:5 describes the meat further: “For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.” Two things sanctify this food—“the word of God” and “prayer.” Remember this is the meat that false teachers said could not be eaten. This is in contradiction to God’s Word which listed the meat as “clean” (1 Timothy 5:1). By knowing the truth in the Word of God, and receiving these clean animals in a thankful manner with prayer, the true believers would obey God and not the “doctrines of devils.”

What would this passage be saying if it referred to unclean instead of clean food? Would it really mean that we could eat anything if we pray over it? Would we allow our children to eat anything, as long as they prayed over it? Not likely! We can expect God, our Father, to give guidance of what is good for us.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 14, 2019

Original Happy Camper said:
Question 3: Doesn’t 1 Timothy 4:3-4 tell us that we can eat anything if we pray over it first?
Answer: Let’s observe what the verses actually say:

Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving (1 Timothy 4:3-4).

Paul is telling Timothy about false believers who will “depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils” (1 Timothy 4:1). They are in error—no longer following the Scriptures.

Paul tells Timothy these false teachers will command people to “abstain from meats.” But what kind of meats? 1 Timothy 4:3 tells us these are not unclean meats but meats that “God hath created to be received with thanksgiving.” This cannot mean unclean animals, because they were never intended to be eaten!

These clean meats are to be “received with thanksgiving of them that believe and know the truth” (1 Timothy 4:3). Believe and know the truth about what? Obviously, the truth about clean and unclean animals.

1 Timothy 4:4 says, “For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving.” This does not mean that every created being is permitted to be eaten. If this were the meaning, cannibalism would justified. Rather, this verse refers to the previous verse’s clean animals. Those who “believe and know the truth” will receive “with thanksgiving.”

1 Timothy 5:5 describes the meat further: “For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.” Two things sanctify this food—“the word of God” and “prayer.” Remember this is the meat that false teachers said could not be eaten. This is in contradiction to God’s Word which listed the meat as “clean” (1 Timothy 5:1). By knowing the truth in the Word of God, and receiving these clean animals in a thankful manner with prayer, the true believers would obey God and not the “doctrines of devils.”

What would this passage be saying if it referred to unclean instead of clean food? Would it really mean that we could eat anything if we pray over it? Would we allow our children to eat anything, as long as they prayed over it? Not likely! We can expect God, our Father, to give guidance of what is good for us.

I am not going to argue with you over what God's laws say. For me, it is clear in what it says in the New Testament. Nowhere does the NT say that the eating of unclean animals is still forbidden. Jesus and His followers taught that we are not under the dietary laws of the Jews. Yes, we are not to eat blood or things strangled as per Acts 15, but that is the only clause of exception that we are told to make in regards to food in the NT.

Original Happy Camper · Oct 14, 2019

Another_uniqueUsername said:
1: My GoodNews bible (or the author of this translation) states amongst Jesus' words in brackets () where its said that "Jesus declared all foods are fit for consumption"

PETER knew of unclean meats.
Acts 10
12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

GOD told Moses to write of unclean meats

Leviticus 11:4
Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

GOD told Noah of the unclean animals

Genesis 7:2
Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

God does not lie or change his word

GOD created them unclean and it cannot be changed by man

Mark 7:7
Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Original Happy Camper · Oct 14, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
I am not going to argue with you over what God's laws say. For me, it is clear in what it says in the New Testament. Nowhere does the NT say that the eating of unclean animals is still forbidden. Jesus and His followers taught that we are not under the dietary laws of the Jews. Yes, we are not to eat blood or things strangled as per Acts 15, but that is the only clause of exception that we are told to make in regards to food in the NT.

Malachi 3:6
For I am the Lord, I change not;

Bible Highlighter · Oct 14, 2019

Original Happy Camper said:
PETER knew of unclean meats.
Acts 10
12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

GOD told Moses to write of unclean meats

Leviticus 11:4
Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

GOD told Noah of the unclean animals

Genesis 7:2
Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

God does not lie or change his word

GOD created them unclean and it cannot be changed by man

Mark 7:7
Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

One's imagination has to work overtime to see that the Jewish laws on not eating unclean animals is still in effect. Unless you can post the actual words in large bold letters that say we are not to eat unclean animals in the NT, I am no buying what your selling.

As for Peter saying that he would not eat unclean animals from the vision:
I believe God was giving Peter two messages here. The primary message was to include the Gentiles, and the secondary message was that Peter can now eat unclean animals (Just as Jesus taught in His earthly ministry). For it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a man, but it is what comes out of the mouth that defiles him. We are under a New Covenant with New Commands. The Old Covenant is now done away with. You cannot obey two covenants at the same time. That is not possible. Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 14, 2019

Original Happy Camper said:
Malachi 3:6
For I am the Lord, I change not;

He is referring to his attributes and not how He can change covenants and or send His Son down to us via the Incarnation, etc.

Original Happy Camper · Oct 14, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
One's imagination has to work overtime to see that the Jewish laws on not eating unclean animals is still in effect. Unless you can post the actual words in large bold letters that say we are not to eat unclean animals in the NT, I am no buying what your selling.

The word of GOD says:
Matthew 4:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Christian newby questions...

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