Christian ministry properties must NOT be sold .. a call for help

[Galilee]

A large, two-story building built by Southern Baptists in the 1950s of beautiful, locally quarried limestone, with an incomparable view of the city of Nazareth, Israel, Jesus' boyhood home, is being put up for sale.

The spacious villa, owned by the International Mission Board (IMB) of the Southern Baptist Convention, has become the center of controversy between Baptists in Israel and IMB leadership in Richmond, Virginia. The upcoming sale is part of a series of world-wide property sales held in order to raise funds for IMB ministry projects around the world. Baptists in Israel do not dispute that the IMB is the legal owner of the property but they strongly oppose its sale. The facility is currently being used as center for ministry into the city of Nazareth as well as the Galilee.
for the full story: http://comeandsee.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=643

please help us by signing this petition: http://petitionspot.com/petitions/nazareth-building

and please spread it to the other.
this is extremely important to us as christians in the Holy land. it's important to our existance, and to the ministry work.

God bless you all ..
and really thanks

 

[SteveR2021]

Why is the building being sold and to whom? I don't understand what is happening here.

Thanks.

 

[daveleau]

American IMB members are trying to raise funds by selling properties, of which the Israeli building is one attempting to be sold. Israeli IMB members don't want it sold because they are using it. The sale is the relevant part, rather than whom they are selling it to, methinks.

 

[mesue]

Couldn't the missionaries raise funds locally to purchase the building outright? God is bigger than a mission board, He will provide funds if that is His will for them to have the building. He is still in control and He hasn't left the throne.

 

[Fat]

It's just a building.
Has it ever brought the Word to anyone?
Has it saved one sole?
Christ didn't have a building.
Paul didn't have a building, he had a jail cell.

The Pope has a bunch of buildings.
The UN has a bunch of buildings.
They're just buildings.

 

[Galilee]

let me tell you something.
at 1948 ( a year after Israel was established), christians were 2.9% of the populetion of israel. by 1972, that number has decreased to become 2.7%. and nowadays, they are less than 2.1% of the population in israel !!
yes, in the land of Christ, the "holy land" as some love to reffer to it, christians are only 2.1% of the population.
in other words, christians in israel are a weak minority. so, you can see that Baptists, being part of the general christian population in Israel, aren't as strong as some Baptist communities around the world might be.

Couldn't the missionaries raise funds locally to purchase the building outright? God is bigger than a mission board, He will provide funds if that is His will for them to have the building. He is still in control and He hasn't left the throne.

the cost is approximately US $620,000. The ABC churches committed to raise US $50,000 locally. The ABC was asking individuals and churches — both in Israel and abroad— to help raise the remaining $508,000 that will allow, with the discount from the IMB, to purchase the building.
so, yes, i know in God's eyes nothing is impossible. but it's ont easy. and trust me, many people are working on it financially by trying to get some money somehow.
and you can see this story was raised now, but it's not new: http://comeandsee.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=499
but there's a very simple thing that every one can do, by signing a petition. and that's what i asked for.

It's just a building.
Has it ever brought the Word to anyone?
Has it saved one sole?
Christ didn't have a building.
Paul didn't have a building, he had a jail cell.

The Pope has a bunch of buildings.
The UN has a bunch of buildings.
They're just buildings.

maybe you got it a little wrong.
the Baptist community in israel (and the whole population in general) are law in resources. they just aren't rich. unlike some communities from other places in the world.
you got no idea what a sacrifice those who serve in the ministry over here make.
it's not just a building.
it helped bringing the word to many of the people in this area.
it helped saving many souls.
and it's true, christ didn't have a building, but why to give a building away if you already have it ?!?!
this building wasn't just owned by a ministry, it was used for the ministry !! to reach people with the word of God.

 

[aReformedPatriot]

The building is not important, but rather the money that stems from it. Last I read on IMB's website it costs .07 cents a minute to sustain a single missionary. Do the math on how many missionaries selling this 'villa' may sustain for a year.

 

[aReformedPatriot]

Is the building currently occupied?

 

[Galilee]

The building is not important, but rather the money that stems from it. Last I read on IMB's website it costs .07 cents a minute to sustain a single missionary. Do the math on how many missionaries selling this 'villa' may sustain for a year.

so, let's take from the poor and give to the rich ? is that the solution ?
I don't know how does the IMB do it's math. and i don't know how can they reach such numbers. 7 cents a minute ..
the IMB doesn't do any work anymore over here. it's the local Baptist community that does all the work.
and so far, one time after another, the IMB makes it harder and harder for the local Baptists to do their work.
as example, did you know that today, Jews are much more welcomed to the "Baptist village" than baptists are ? especially arab Baptists.
that place that was a conference center, has shut it doors in the face of the whole local Baptist community. is that acceptable ?
is what the IMB is doing acceptable ?

 

[Galilee]

Is the building currently occupied?

yes it is.

 

[aReformedPatriot]

so, let's take from the poor and give to the rich ? is that the solution ?
I don't know how does the IMB do it's math. and i don't know how can they reach such numbers. 7 cents a minute ..
the IMB doesn't do any work anymore over here. it's the local Baptist community that does all the work.
and so far, one time after another, the IMB makes it harder and harder for the local Baptists to do their work.
as example, did you know that today, Jews are much more welcomed to the "Baptist village" than baptists are ? especially arab Baptists.
that place that was a conference center, has shut it doors in the face of the whole local Baptist community. is that acceptable ?
is what the IMB is doing acceptable ?

The figure by doing the average cost of a missionary, it comes to like 36k a year. Please do not be hostile about it. Its not about taking from the poor, its about serving as a whole. I cant speak for the IMB as to what they do, I am not there nor do I know their side.

 

[Fat]

maybe you got it a little wrong.
the Baptist community in israel (and the whole population in general) are law in resources. they just aren't rich. unlike some communities from other places in the world.
you got no idea what a sacrifice those who serve in the ministry over here make.
it's not just a building.
it helped bringing the word to many of the people in this area.
it helped saving many souls.
and it's true, christ didn't have a building, but why to give a building away if you already have it ?!?!
this building wasn't just owned by a ministry, it was used for the ministry !! to reach people with the word of God.

Yeah is see you point a soul in Israel is much more important than a soul in China. And for sure to give a way a worldly thing as big as a building would upset our Lord terribly. And to think those people in China study the Word hiding in their neighbors homes in fear of being discovered by the police. What fools. I’ll pray for your building.

Fat

 

[Galilee]

Yeah is see you point a soul in Israel is much more important than a soul in China. And for sure to give a way a worldly thing as big as a building would upset our Lord terribly. And to think those people in China study the Word hiding in their neighbors homes in fear of being discovered by the police. What fools. I’ll pray for your building.

Fat

wow .. !! there's no way that it's what i'm saying. because it's just a terrible thing to say.
NO ONE's soul is is more important than the other. please don't get me wrong.
and i want to make something clear. I'm not against the IMB, the ABC isn't against the IMB, the whole local Baptist community isn't against the IMB and the petition isn't against the IMB.
we thank the IMB for the great work that they've done and still doing and ask God to Bless them richly.
and about china, i know what they go through and how it is hard for them.
and I'm NOT claiming that our situatin is harder, or even as hard, as teir's is.
but the world should know that the christian community In Israel doesn't have such an easy life as some people might think.
http://usera.imagecave.com/maghar/

And again, please, i don't want any one to get me wrong. i'm not against the IMB. and sure, i got nothing agains them in personal.
God bless them

 

[Fat]

wow .. !! there's no way that it's what i'm saying. because it's just a terrible thing to say.
NO ONE's soul is is more important than the other. please don't get me wrong.
and i want to make something clrear. I'm not against the IMB, the ABC isn't against the IMB, the whole local Baptist community isn't against the IMB and the petition isn't against the IMB.
we thank the IMB for the great work that they've done and still doing and ask God to Bless them richly.
and about china, i know what they go through and how it is hard for them.
and I'm NOT claiming that our situatin is harder, or even as hard, as teir's is.
but the world should know that the christian community In Israel doesn't have such an easy life.
http://usera.imagecave.com/maghar/

And again, please, i don't want any one to get me wrong. i'm not against the IMB. and sure, i got nothing agains them in personal.
God bless them

And God bless you and your efforts. I’ll pray that Gods will will be done. Trust Him, He has a plan that may not make sense to us but it will work out to His glory.

Fat

 

[mesue]

... by signing a petition. and that's what i asked for.

"building of 500 square meters on a 1.2 donum of land"
Is what in US terms?
I can't sign the petition, I don't have peace about it. If selling the property would help keep the missionaries' going, then why not sell for the betterment of all?
I have a couple of questions. Are the missionaries in Israel going to be put out on the street or are other accomodations being prepared for them? I find it hard to believe that no alterative housing was offered by the board. Another question I have is, Now that the Arab Baptists are aware of the situation, are they willing to raise the funds? I'm not trying to say that they should not be provided a building, just that I have concerns.
Maybe I'm a little renagade in my thinking, but If I were about to lose a building that was being used to reach the lost for Christ, I would either find ways of staying, like buying the building or looking for a different place to set up shop. Maybe even considering leaving the missionary board and starting my own. If my mission were truly to be there in Israel, I would trust that God will keep me there or show me where I need to be. Maybe this is a test from God to try the reins of their hearts. I don't know.

 

[hindsey]

It's just a building.
Has it ever brought the Word to anyone?
Has it saved one sole?
Christ didn't have a building.
Paul didn't have a building, he had a jail cell.

The Pope has a bunch of buildings.
The UN has a bunch of buildings.
They're just buildings.

**

Yeah is see you point a soul in Israel is much more important than a soul in China. And for sure to give a way a worldly thing as big as a building would upset our Lord terribly. And to think those people in China study the Word hiding in their neighbors homes in fear of being discovered by the police. What fools. I’ll pray for your building.

Fat, Why all the sarcasm? If someone were to come take away the church building where your church assembles (I am making an assumption that you do), and they were to do this without your approval, would you not try to prevent that from happening? That's all that Galilee is doing. You say, Paul didn't have a building - Paul didn't have a bus ministry either, does that mean we should sell all the buses at our church that have brought thousands of kids to church that otherwise should not have come? Buildlings are good tools, so I don't know what you have against them.

(at this point, I make an assumption that Galille is true, and the building in Israel is in fact being used to spread the Word of God) I don't know where China came up in the conversation, but if IMB is following God's will with their mission, and they wanted to start a work in China, then why would they put an end to a work that God led them to begin in the first place in Israel? Keep the property in Israel and trust God to expand the ministry - if it's His will, that won't be a problem.

Fat, I'm disappointed with the negative response you gave to Galilee. And to say, "I'll pray for your building" with such sarcasm... I don't believe that would be pleasing to God.

 

[Fat]

Fat, Why all the sarcasm? If someone were to come take away the church building where your church assembles (I am making an assumption that you do), and they were to do this without your approval, would you not try to prevent that from happening? That's all that Galilee is doing. You say, Paul didn't have a building - Paul didn't have a bus ministry either, does that mean we should sell all the buses at our church that have brought thousands of kids to church that otherwise should not have come? Buildlings are good tools, so I don't know what you have against them.

(at this point, I make an assumption that Galille is true, and the building in Israel is in fact being used to spread the Word of God) I don't know where China came up in the conversation, but if IMB is following God's will with their mission, and they wanted to start a work in China, then why would they put an end to a work that God led them to begin in the first place in Israel? Keep the property in Israel and trust God to expand the ministry - if it's His will, that won't be a problem.

Fat, I'm disappointed with the negative response you gave to Galilee. And to say, "I'll pray for your building" with such sarcasm... I don't believe that would be pleasing to God.

hindsey,
“if IMB is following God's will”
“Keep the property in Israel and trust God to expand the ministry - if it's His will, that won't be a problem.”

So I pray that the IMB is being lead by God. I don’t try and fight them by rallying up public support against them. They are fellow Christians are they not?

There are many churches that meet in homes (trailors) even here in America. Don’t let a building become a stumbling block by letting it come between believers. The building belongs to IMB, as I understand it.

They said to Him, "Caesar's." Then He said to them, "Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's."

Fat


A little edit note here if I may.

God trusted this property with the leaders of this organization for a reason. Why would anyone else believe that they knew better than God? In the OT God was very displeased when His people disobeyed Moses or other leaders that He had given authority to. I’m not saying that the IMB is lead by Moses but He did give them authority over this building.
In the OT a lot of Gods plans made no sense at all. I mean marching around a walled city blowing horns. It was all about faith. And it still is about faith.

 

[ZiSunka]

so, let's take from the poor and give to the rich ?

I never met any rich missionaries.

 

[ZiSunka]

There are many churches that meet in homes (trailors) even here in America. Don’t let a building become a stumbling block by letting it come between believers.

Very wise advice. It may be that the Lord is allowing this building to be sold for His reasons, such as he wants you to take your congregation to another meeting place, or he wants the building to have another use, or he knows you have become too attached to the building and doesn't want it to become an idol to you. The sale of the building shouldn't be a stumbling block to your congregation. It's just a building.

To rally against IMB publically would be to bring shame and ridicule onto the body of Christ, and that would be a very bad thing. It doesn't matter where you meet, but it does matter how you react to disappointments and how you relate to other believers. Parts of the Body of Christ can't war against each other without causing damage to each other. It will hurt your witness and turn people away from Christ. It will give people an excuse to say, "Christians are frauds. They don't know the way of peace. They can't even get along with each other."

Contact IMB and try to negotiate with them. Ask them to put in the terms of the sale that your congregation will be allowed to use the building without charge. But don't shame them in public. It gives all of Christianity a black eye.

 

[Galilee]

I have a couple of questions. Are the missionaries in Israel going to be put out on the street or are other accomodations being prepared for them? I find it hard to believe that no alterative housing was offered by the board. Another question I have is, Now that the Arab Baptists are aware of the situation, are they willing to raise the funds? I'm not trying to say that they should not be provided a building, just that I have concerns.

personally, I didn't hear of any alternatives for the building that were offered by the board.
some are also trying to raise some money in an attempt to buy the building. but as i said, it's not a rich community, therfore, external help is needed.

To rally against IMB publically would be to bring shame and ridicule onto the body of Christ, and that would be a very bad thing. It doesn't matter where you meet, but it does matter how you react to disappointments and how you relate to other believers. Parts of the Body of Christ can't war against each other without causing damage to each other. It will hurt your witness and turn people away from Christ. It will give people an excuse to say, "Christians are frauds. They don't know the way of peace. They can't even get along with each other."

but i said it before. i'm not against the IMB. and no one is against the IMB. i'm not attacking them at all. and no one is interested in attacking them. not to mention having a war with them. no way.
we just disagreed with their decision. and we have the right to make our voice heard. we can't force them to do -or not to do- anything. all we can do is negotiating, and and telling our side of the story. that's all what it is about.

peace and love