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Christian Liberties and Drinking.

What is your opinion on alchohol, and why?

  • It's OK to drink as much alchohol as you desire, as long as you don't become an alchoholic.

  • It's OK to drink alchohol in moderation; It's one of our Christian liberties.

  • It's not OK to drink alchohol at all.


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pinkieposies

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Okay, I got to think about this when I was reading through the tattoos poll, and I thought I would ask y'all's opinion on this subject here! ;)

Do you drink alchohol? Do you consider drinking {alchohol} to be a matter of Christian liberties or not? Do you think it is wrong to consume alchohol? Do you think it is okay as long as you apply moderation to your consumption? What are your thoughts on the matter, and how have you come to these conclusions? Does your church give wine for the Lord's Supper/Communion? Or do they opt for grape juice? If so, why?

I'm very interested in hearing some of your thoughts! :p

God Bless,
Erin
 

Defcon

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I chose the 2nd option (although on these, usually someone comes up with better wording for an option I agree with).

"
Do you drink alchohol?" - Yes

"
Do you consider drinking {alchohol} to be a matter of Christian liberties or not?" - Not quite sure about the whole 'Christian Liberties' phrase as I fear I may not have clear understanding of that phrase; but from what I understand getting drunk is forbidden and you can drink alchohol without getting drunk.

"
Do you think it is wrong to consume alchohol?" If it leads to drunkeness - yes; otherwise no.

"
Do you think it is okay as long as you apply moderation to your consumption?" - Yes.

"
What are your thoughts on the matter, and how have you come to these conclusions?" Jesus drank wine and shared in social drinking. Despite what some people have been warped into believing - it was not non-alcholohic wine either. My father and I argue about this all the time (definitely a hot-topic issue). He claims that the people of Jesus time had to drink wine because water was impure (and I have heard that it was more sanitary) and he believes since we have better facilities and other options, then there is absolutely no reason at all to drink alchohol because it doesn't help our body (My dad at this point refuses to listen to medical facts where in some cases it can be helpful). Being as bull-headed as my dad, I tell him we shouldn't eat chocolate either since it would be hard to produce sufficient evidence where Reese's cups are part of a food group that helps our bodies. That's about as far as we get each time we discuss this.....

Biblically, I refer to Psalm 104:14-15 -
"
He makes grass grow for the cattle,
and plants for man to cultivate—
bringing forth food from the earth:

wine that gladdens the heart of man,
oil to make his face shine,
and bread that sustains his heart."


Letting us know that God created wine and it can be used for our enjoyment and not be a sin. There are many others, as I'm sure will be posted.


"Does your church give wine for the Lord's Supper/Communion? Or do they opt for grape juice? If so, why?" I haven't found a church home yet - but every church I have been in always serves grape juice. I think they choose to do this due to the under-age drinkers taking communion in the service. Frankly, it would be fine with me if they gave wine to those who were of age and grape juice to those who weren't; if nothing else but to dispel this notion that alchohol is the worst sin anyone can commit (pretty prominent belief in church going people in my area).
 
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pinkieposies

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Defcon said:
I chose the 2nd option (although on these, usually someone comes up with better wording for an option I agree with).
Defcon said:

"Do you drink alchohol?" - Yes

"Do you consider drinking {alchohol} to be a matter of Christian liberties or not?" - Not quite sure about the whole 'Christian Liberties' phrase as I fear I may not have clear understanding of that phrase; but from what I understand getting drunk is forbidden and you can drink alchohol without getting drunk.

" Do you think it is wrong to consume alchohol?" If it leads to drunkeness - yes; otherwise no.

"Do you think it is okay as long as you apply moderation to your consumption?" - Yes.

"What are your thoughts on the matter, and how have you come to these conclusions?" Jesus drank wine and shared in social drinking. Despite what some people have been warped into believing - it was not non-alcholohic wine either. My father and I argue about this all the time (definitely a hot-topic issue). He claims that the people of Jesus time had to drink wine because water was impure (and I have heard that it was more sanitary) and he believes since we have better facilities and other options, then there is absolutely no reason at all to drink alchohol because it doesn't help our body (My dad at this point refuses to listen to medical facts where in some cases it can be helpful). Being as bull-headed as my dad, I tell him we shouldn't eat chocolate either since it would be hard to produce sufficient evidence where Reese's cups are part of a food group that helps our bodies. That's about as far as we get each time we discuss this.....

Biblically, I refer to Psalm 104:14-15 -
"He makes grass grow for the cattle,
and plants for man to cultivate—
bringing forth food from the earth:

wine that gladdens the heart of man,
oil to make his face shine,
and bread that sustains his heart."


Letting us know that God created wine and it can be used for our enjoyment and not be a sin. There are many others, as I'm sure will be posted.


"Does your church give wine for the Lord's Supper/Communion? Or do they opt for grape juice? If so, why?" I haven't found a church home yet - but every church I have been in always serves grape juice. I think they choose to do this due to the under-age drinkers taking communion in the service. Frankly, it would be fine with me if they gave wine to those who were of age and grape juice to those who weren't; if nothing else but to dispel this notion that alchohol is the worst sin anyone can commit (pretty prominent belief in church going people in my area).


Thanks for the reply and especially for the verses. I agree with you. I am not exactly of age to buy alchohol {As you can all see by my giant 20th birthday sign ;) }, but my husband is, and he likes to enjoy a few beers every now and then and I really don't have a problem with it.

One thing my husband has brought up to me also is that it totally depends on the situation you are in. For example alchohol itself isn't evil, but it would definately be wrong to drink in front of, or offer a drink to, a recovering alchoholic {Even if you don't get drunk}. Because you are causing him to stumble and tempting him with something you know he will probably have a hard time resisting.

My church serves wine to our whole congregation, including children. We feel that because it was actual wine that Jesus told us to drink in rememberance of Him, that changing it to grape juice {not the same thing ;) } wouldn't be right. It's pretty weak wine and those little communion cups are so tiny that there isn't too much worry about it going to the children's heads! {As far as I know I think it is okay to serve minors alchohol for religious reasons as long as they are under the supervision of an adult...But I could be wrong.}

Sorry for throwing so many questions out there! I didn't really intend for everyone to answer them all individually. And I suppose I could have picked better answers for the poll, but all I could think of was "yes", "no", and "it depends". :p Ha ha!

God Bless,
Erin
 
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Elderone

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pinkieposies said:
Okay, I got to think about this when I was reading through the tattoos poll, and I thought I would ask y'all's opinion on this subject here! ;)

Do you drink alchohol? Do you consider drinking {alchohol} to be a matter of Christian liberties or not? Do you think it is wrong to consume alchohol? Do you think it is okay as long as you apply moderation to your consumption? What are your thoughts on the matter, and how have you come to these conclusions? Does your church give wine for the Lord's Supper/Communion? Or do they opt for grape juice? If so, why?

I'm very interested in hearing some of your thoughts! :p

God Bless,
Erin

Yes, Yes, No, Yes.

I haven't been able to find a prohibition against drinking alcohol, in moderation, in the Bible for us common folks. For the Levites it was a different matter.

Our church serves grape juice. I don't remember why, probably Presbyterian tradition.

The following was posted by Cajin Huguenot a few months back. It is a letter from a Baptist minister to his friend, another Baptist minister, concerning the drinking of alcohol. It is L O N G but explains more clearly than I would be able on this subject.

I haven't heard from you since that last e-mail, and I didn't know if it was just because you were busy or because I am anathema now because of my position on alcohol and tobacco. One of the reasons I am writing this e-mail is because I talked with J.'s uncle Al last night. He called me asking me about this. We had an interesting discussion.

I guess a lot of water has passed under the bridge since we have discussed anything, and I did kind of shock everyone. I probably shouldn't have said anything, but it is nothing about which I am ashamed. This e-mail will provide some explanation as to why I came to this position. I hope that this will be passed along to J. and ultimately Al also. Al and I are supposed to talk again sometime.

I have learned that, in fact, it was the Unitarians who actually began the temperance movement in the 1800's. The "conservative Christians" fell in with them because of their distorted view of God's creation, holding an ancient gnostic dualistic view of physical and spiritual; i.e., matter is inherently evil and the spiritual is good. This poses all sorts of problems with biblical Christianity (of which I am a strong adherent).

This brings me to the biblical argument which changed my thinking. Remember, the Bible, God's inerrant revelation of Himself to us, is our only rule of faith and practice. Emotional arguments, arguments from personal experience and cultural practice cannot dictate what we believe and do. Only God's Word should govern our thinking.

The first area with which I would like to deal is our common ground. The Bible is very clear about drunkenness. Drunkenness is a sin which is deplorable in the sight of God. From the Old Testament through the New Testament God has made this very clear.

Prov. 23:21 For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.

Is. 28:1 Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!

Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

Rom. 13:13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.

Eph. 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit.

In fact, drunkenness is a picture and a sign of God's judgment:
Is. 19:14 The LORD hath mingled a perverse spirit in the midst thereof: and they have caused Egypt to err in every work thereof, as a drunken man staggereth in his vomit.

Is. 24:20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

Is. 29:9 Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink. Et. al.

The Bible clearly states that the drunkard (i.e., those whose lifestyle is characterized by drunkenness) will not inherit the kingdom of God (1Cor 6:9-10) because this is a work of the flesh (Gal 5:19-21). I detest drunkenness, and, in fact, have begun church discipline (that might be a new one for you too) on people who have been publicly drunk. Many people do not see how this position is consistent with what I am about to say, but the Bible is perfectly consistent about the issue. The Bible's teaching on alcohol as a beverage is quite clear.

The first word in the Old Testament that is translated wine is the Hebrew word yayin. Some have tried to argue that this word as well as others does not refer to a drink that has the ability to intoxicate in order to maintain the position that abstinence is the only way to think about alcohol, but their arguments are in vain according to the use of the word in the OT. The word is used 141 times in the OT.

This is the fruit of the vine by which Noah became drunk (Gen 9:21, 24), Lot's daughters led their father to drunkenness by yayin (Gen 19:32-35), Eli thought Hannah was drunk with yayin (1Sam 1:14-15), and Nabal was also drunk with yayin (1Sam. 25:37). Many more examples could be cited, but I think this is sufficient.

The interesting thing about yayin, wine, is that it is also seen as a blessing from God (Gen. 49:12 "His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk;" this is in the pronouncement of blessing from God on the tribe of Judah from which our Lord would descend).

In fact, God required yayin to be a part of offerings offered to Him in the OT ceremonies (Ex. 29:40 And with the one lamb a tenth deal of flour mingled with the fourth part of an hin of beaten oil; and the fourth part of an hin of wine [yayin] for a drink offering; cf also Lev. 23:13; Num. 6:20; Num. 15:5, 7, 10; Num. 28:14).

One of the tithes required by the Lord involved the people tithing of all of their produce each year. They were to take this tithe to the tabernacle. But if the stuff they were to take would spoil on the journey, this was God's command:

Deut. 14:26 "And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine[yayin], or for strong drink [shachar], or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household."

God is commanding them to go out and buy these potentially intoxicating beverages so that they and their households may partake and rejoice before the Lord for His goodness! Now, is God promoting sin? Does not God know that this stuff is potentially intoxicating? Is God the author of sin? God forbid!!! The fact is alcohol is seen as a good gift from God to be enjoyed in His presence and for His glory. He is strictly against the abuse of this good gift and all of His other good gifts. But He is NOT against the proper use of His good gifts.

A sign of God's cursing upon His people would be that they would have vineyards but would not be able to drink the yayin from them

(Deut. 28:39 Thou shalt plant vineyards, and dress them, but shalt neither drink of the wine, nor gather the grapes; for the worms shall eat them. Cf also Is. 16:10.)

But the blessing of the Lord would be just the opposite:

Amos 9:14 "And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them."

God says, in His Word,

Psa. 104:15 "And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart."

The facts are that God prohibits drunkenness, but He encourages the proper view and use of His good gift of alcohol. There is much more that could be said from the OT, but I will move on to the NT for the sake of boring you with all the facts.

The NT is also replete with examples about the use of wine. The Greek word is oinos. Another phrase that is used is tou genematos tes ampelou, the fruit of the vine. The cup Jesus used in the Last Supper was a common term used for the cup of blessing which was understood to be wine. But let's deal with the biblical uses of oinos and oinos neos (new wine).

Jesus compares the kingdom of God as revealed in Himself as new wine (oinos neos). He says that you don't put new wine in old wineskins because the fermentation would burst the already stretched out wineskins. If this stuff were so deplorable, why would our Lord use it for an example of the kingdom of God? Wasn't He as smart as our culture today?

Real liberal theologians say that Christ just kind of mixed in with the times, controlled by the prevailing culture of the day. As a conservative Bible student, I can't hold to this view. Christ was controlled only by the law of God which He came to fulfill. Christ even goes so far as to say that aged wine is much better than new wine (Luke 5:37-39)! And then there is that incident where Christ actually turned water to wine in John 2, His first miracle. Some have tried to say that this word here means "grape juice," but they cannot prove that from the prevailing use of the word oinos. The same word is used throughout this passage to speak about wine.

This wine was potentially intoxicating. Didn't Christ know that there were potential alcoholics there? Did He not know that wine was used in pagan temples? Did He not know that there were problems with drunkenness in His culture (for there was)? Yet He made six waterpots of approximately 40 gallons each of good wine. Gee, that is about 240 gallons of wine! The arguments simply do not stand up to the Word of God.

God does not promote abstinence. He promotes the proper use of His good gifts. In order to say otherwise one would have to deny the example of our Lord, who knowing that people would be following His example in keeping God's law, would have abstained completely if that had been the law of God for us to follow. The people that Jesus really perturbed during His day were the Pharisees. You see, the Pharisees added all of these laws and traditions to the law of God, making void the commandments of God by their man made commandments (Matt 15).

The Pharisees, like the many Christians today, believed that external things such as not washing hands ritualistically before eating defiled a person. Jesus response to the Pharisees was:


Matt. 15:11 "Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man."

The principle here is that external things of God's creation are not in and of themselves evil. Evil is within the heart of man, not in the things which he puts in his mouth (which would include alcohol!). But just like the Pharisees of Jesus' day, many professing believers want to judge their spirituality by external things; e.g., "I don't do this," "I go to church," "I don't drink alcohol," "I don't use tobacco," "I don't dance," etc. These are all things that make us feel spiritual, but they are not God's standards of spirituality. God's standard of spirituality goes to the heart; i.e., that which comes out of man. Because while one may have "external" righteousness and look real "spiritual" before the world, his heart is corrupt. Paul warns us that spirituality would be judged by these things, and he warns believers against this heresy.

Col. 2:16-17, 20-23 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ . . . Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."

He also says in another place:

1Tim. 4:1-5 "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer."
Though wine is not specifically mentioned, the principle is there. All of God's creation is good and can be used for good and enjoyment when left in its proper context. Those who say otherwise are, according to Paul, promoting "doctrines of demons." One thing that I hope you can see is that my position is clearly the biblical position on the matter.

I have not appealed to you on some emotional or some experiential argument. Some will say that nothing good comes from the use of alcohol (or tobacco, etc; insert your favorite external sin). "My father was a drunkard, and I hate the stuff." These people believe that all of those who promote the use of alcohol in moderation have never had bad experiences in their lives with it. Not true !

My biological father was a drunkard. I have seen the devastating effects of the abuse of alcohol. But my thinking is held captive by the Word of God and not my experience. God's Word dictates what I believe and do, not emotions or experience. My opinions and personal scruples are not the dictates of God. I cannot judge someone liberal or conservative based upon my personal opinions.

There are some objections that have been raise with which I had to deal and have dealt with Scripturally. First, there is the issue of the potential alcoholic (or tobacco abuser; again, insert your favorite external standard of righteousness). The first thing to say about being a drunkard is that this is not a disease, as if it could be cured medically. Drunkenness is a moral problem ground in a lack of self-control. For the Christian, the Spirit supplies this needed attribute to our lives (cf. Gal 5:22-23). Addictions are modern euphemisms for a lack of self control so people can blame their evil on something that "they cannot help." This is simply not true.

Those who are in the Spirit do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh (Gal 5). You know, people focus in on this alcohol issue as the big abuse. But God condemns abuse of food, sex, etc. Every time I take food to my mouth I am a potential glutton. Every time I have sexual relations with my wife I am a potential adulterer (another thing my biological father was). The logic is absurd when taken to its conclusion. Just as with sex and food, left in proper context, the use (not abuse) of all of God's gifts is good and enjoyable. Taken out of proper use and context they are deplorable and immoral.

The second objection is that the Nazarites vow included the abstinence from alcohol. Actually, though, their abstinence was much more inclusive. It involved abstinence from ALL fruits of the vine including grapes, raisins and the skin of grapes (cf. Numbers 6). After the time of his vow was complete and he went through the proper ceremonies, the Nazarite was free from his vow, and God specifically says "He may drink wine" (Numbers 6:20). If God thought it was the best thing for people to do, why didn't He require this of all people? Why didn't He, at least, keep the Nazarites from drinking wine for the rest of their lives?

Let me say at this point, those who wish to abstain from alcohol are welcomed to do so. BUT they are to realize that its not because God commanded them to do so, only by personal conviction (which is a sign of a weak believer). Paul deals extensively with these issues in 1Cor 8--10 and Rom 14. In Romans 14 Paul deals specifically with the eating of meat and drinking of wine. He categorize those who can do these things as "strong" and those who cannot as "weak." This deals with a trained or untrained conscience on these matters.

The point I want to make here is that neither the strong nor the weak can judge the other based upon his own personal convictions that do not deal specifically with God's Word. We do judge things such as immorality (which takes on many forms, 1Cor 5), but on these issues one brother does not have the right to judge another brother. That would include categorizing another as "liberal" or "conservative" based on these non-essential issues!

This brings me to the objection of the use of alcohol being a bad witness. The appeal might again be made to Romans 14 where someone would say, "You are to act in love and not put a stumbling block before your brothers." This is absolutely true. But you must understand what a stumbling block is. This is not merely perturbing another believer. This is a serious offense. This is aiding--or even causing--a brother to sin against his conscience. It would be like inviting you to a party not telling you that there was alcohol in the punch and then telling you after you drank it. You would have sinned against your conscience. That would be wrong. But you feeling uncomfortable around me because I do it, is not included here.

As I said earlier, the Pharisees were constantly perturbed with Jesus because He did things as a "Rabbi" with which they did not agree. This did not stop him from doing these things. He was about the business of correcting their thinking, and bringing every thought captive to the law of God.

To say that it is a bad witness before the world is also erroneous. We have led this world to believe through unbiblical views on alcohol that Christianity is a "touch not, taste not" religion based on external morality. The truth of the matter is that it is a sin to preach or teach anything to be a sin that God does not declare to be a sin. That is adding to the Word of God. This is precisely what the lost Pharisees did, and Jesus condemned them for it.

A good witness would be to help people understand that all of God's creation is good and can only be enjoyed if used within proper context and for His glory. I could keep going on about this, but I hope you can see that I have done my homework. My views come straight from the Bible. Now, if anyone is like I used to be-- "I don't care what the Bible actually says, I know what I believe in my heart"--that person will not be convinced of anything. As long as people let emotions, experience, culture, man-made commandments and external righteousness govern their thinking, they will never be transformed by the renewing of their minds.

Quite frankly I am sick and tired of people trying to impose upon God something that He has not said. Our job is to preach, teach, learn and submit to the Word of God for what it says NOT what we want it to say or think it ought to say. We are not wiser than God on these issues. We are not more righteous than God.

My prayer is (if you have made it all the way through this) that you will not simply pass this off in an unthinking manner. Deal with it. Take an honest look at the Word of God as I had to do and continue to do. I am not the same person I used to be because I am constantly being transformed by the renewing of my mind which comes by the Word of God. I am being sanctified by truth. God's Word is truth (John 17:17).

I refuse to be controlled by man's commandments and traditions. When all is said and done, I am not the one who could be classified as a liberal here. It is my understanding that conservatives believe the Bible, liberals do not. I believe what I have shown you is that I do believe and practice the Bible. I welcome any comments, criticisms or admonitions, but I only take them from God's Word. If I can be proven by sound reason and the Word of God to be wrong, I will change. But if sound reason and God's Word cannot be used to change my thinking, I can do no other. My conscience is bound by the Word of God.

Here I stand!
Passionate for God's truth,
 
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pinkieposies

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Elderone said:
Yes, Yes, No, Yes.
Elderone said:

I haven't been able to find a prohibition against drinking alcohol, in moderation, in the Bible for us common folks. For the Levites it was a different matter.

Our church serves grape juice. I don't remember why, probably Presbyterian tradition.

The following was posted by Cajin Huguenot a few months back. It is a letter from a Baptist minister to his friend, another Baptist minister, concerning the drinking of alcohol. It is L O N G but explains more clearly than I would be able on this subject.


Wow. I think that's an excellent explaination on the difference between abusing God's goods gifts and using them the way He meant them to be used. Thank you for posting that! ;)

God Bless,
Erin
 
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pinkieposies

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pinkieposies said:



My church serves wine to our whole congregation, including children. We feel that because it was actual wine that Jesus told us to drink in rememberance of Him, that changing it to grape juice {not the same thing ;) } wouldn't be right. It's pretty weak wine and those little communion cups are so tiny that there isn't too much worry about it going to the children's heads! {As far as I know I think it is okay to serve minors alchohol for religious reasons as long as they are under the supervision of an adult...But I could be wrong.}


I'm sorry, I actually just realized that this isn't true. Our church doesn't believe in peado-communion {SP?}. :doh: What I meant to say was minors. Wine is served at the Lord's Supper/Communion to all members including minors. But children aren't allowed to take communion until they have been confirmed in the faith, which happens at 16, I think. Sorry...:doh: Haha! I haven't been there long. I still haven't learned everything about the RCUS yet. :p

Erin
 
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HiredGoon

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Do I think it's ok to drink alchohol? Of course. ;)
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seekingpurity047

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HiredGoon said:
Do I think it's ok to drink alchohol? Of course. ;)
video05.jpg


Ah, un bierae predestinae... mmmmmmmm..........

Um... my church does the grape juice thing. The reason why they do grape juice is because of the "what ifs" concerning real wine. For instance, if there was a recovering alcoholic there, well... i dunno if that little amount of wine is enough to trigger something, but i dunno... best not to risk it, eh? So yah... that's for that

Want another verse concerning wine/alcohol? Teehee... one of my favorites!

1 Tim. 5:23

No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.

To the glory of God,

Randy
 
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Imblessed

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I don't have a problem with drinking on occasion.

Our church serves grape juice--I think the pastors explanation was something about the wine in Jesus' day being pretty weak anyway(like closer to grape juice than wine of today), and the "what if" that seekingpurity brought up.

I think they just felt that it was "safer" to just do the grape juice, and since we feel communion is a symbolic act, it shouldn't matter too much if it's wine or grape juice...

I don't feel it's ok to drink in front of a person who is a recovering alcoholic or a person who has a drinking problem(we have a friend who drinks entirely too much and we don't feel comfortable encouraging that--when he's with us, there's no drinking)

I don't think you will find ANYONE in here that feels differently.......
 
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pinkieposies

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HiredGoon said:
Of Course! But I think it's only available in Europe. Time for a trip to Switzerland.
HiredGoon said:


Too bad I can't read french! I like the intro with Calvin all movin' all around town! :D Man, I want to try that now.

I hope it is available all over Europe, my hubby and I are thinking of moving to Italy. ;)

Erin
 
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seekingpurity047

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pinkieposies said:
Too bad I can't read french! I like the intro with Cavin all movin' around town! :D Man, I want to try that now.

I hope it is available all over Europe, my hubby and I are thinking of moving to Italy. ;)

Erin

Well... if you click on the "Places de Ventes" link once you get there (i believe it's the one in the middle of the three), then you will find all of the places that you can get it.

You can actually get it online... mind you, it's super expensive. I once tried to, but for some reason or another, the website asks for something that i dind't understand what t was talking about.... (I undersatnd french... but the website was being really dumb...)

I think it's only available in switzerland other than umm... online..

To the glory of God,

Randy
 
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pinkieposies

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seekingpurity047 said:
Well... if you click on the "Places de Ventes" link once you get there (i believe it's the one in the middle of the three), then you will find all of the places that you can get it.
seekingpurity047 said:

You can actually get it online... mind you, it's super expensive. I once tried to, but for some reason or another, the website asks for something that i dind't understand what t was talking about.... (I undersatnd french... but the website was being really dumb...)

I think it's only available in switzerland other than umm... online..

To the glory of God,

Randy


I took french was one of the first classes I took after highschool. But I failed...:doh: I couldn't understand anything on that site.

But I think it would be worth it to buy it online at least once. My curiousity has been tickled. I e-mailed the link to my hubby. Maybe it would make a good Christmas present for him. ;) Haha!

God Bless,
Erin
 
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JJB

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Moderation in drinking alcohol is how I voted.

When we have parties, we usually will refrain from serving alcohol because we have several friends who once had problems with alcohol. Just takes the whole issue away from being a stumbling block.

In our extended family, we enjoy having wine with dinner and sometimes a glass before dinner. When we know who the guests are we try to tailor the situation to make all people comfortable.
 
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