Christian in Palestine

SolomonVII · Sep 29, 2005

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0905/pipes2005_09_13.php3

What some observers are calling a pogrom took place near Ramallah, West Bank, on the night of Sep. 3-4. That's when fifteen Muslim youths from one village, Dair Jarir, rampaged against Taybeh, a neighboring all-Christian village of 1,500 people.

The reason for the assault? A Muslim woman from Dair Jarir, Hiyam Ajaj, 23, fell in love with her Christian boss, Mehdi Khouriyye, owner of a tailor shop in Taybeh. The couple maintained a clandestine two-year affair and she became pregnant in about March 2005. When her family learned of her condition, it murdered her. That was on about Sep. 1; unsatisfied even with this "honor killing" for Islamic law strictly forbids non-Muslim males to have sexual relations with Muslim females the Ajaj men sought vengeance against Khouriyye and his family.

shezshy · Sep 29, 2005

sighs...It happens more than we even know.

HelloToAll · Sep 29, 2005

solomon said:
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0905/pipes2005_09_13.php3

What some observers are calling a pogrom took place near Ramallah, West Bank, on the night of Sep. 3-4. That's when fifteen Muslim youths from one village, Dair Jarir, rampaged against Taybeh, a neighboring all-Christian village of 1,500 people.

The reason for the assault? A Muslim woman from Dair Jarir, Hiyam Ajaj, 23, fell in love with her Christian boss, Mehdi Khouriyye, owner of a tailor shop in Taybeh. The couple maintained a clandestine two-year affair and she became pregnant in about March 2005. When her family learned of her condition, it murdered her. That was on about Sep. 1; unsatisfied even with this "honor killing" for Islamic law strictly forbids non-Muslim males to have sexual relations with Muslim females the Ajaj men sought vengeance against Khouriyye and his family.

That's why many of the Middle Eastern Christians are leaving the region.

HelloToAll · Sep 29, 2005

shezshy said:
sighs...It happens more than we even know.

Actually, it happens all the time. This violence and hate towards Christians has got to stop!

Jipsah · Sep 30, 2005

Not to worry, I've been assured by more than one good brother that there are no real Palestinian Christians, and that those who claim to be Christians are either lying or deceived. Therefore the pseudo-Christian Palestinians may be considered the lawful prey of either the Jews (being a Jew always trumps being a mere Christian anyway) or the Muslims.

BarbB · Sep 30, 2005

Jipsah said:
Not to worry, I've been assured by more than one good brother that there are no real Palestinian Christians, and that those who claim to be Christians are either lying or deceived. Therefore the pseudo-Christian Palestinians may be considered the lawful prey of either the Jews (being a Jew always trumps being a mere Christian anyway) or the Muslims.

I agree with you. Remember Saddam's right hand man - Tariq Aziz? He's supposed to be a Christian. I can't imagine how he thinks that he is, but he does.

SolomonVII · Sep 30, 2005

Gramaic said:
That's why many of the Middle Eastern Christians are leaving the region.

Yes, but for Israel, the whole of the MIddle East and North Africa is for all practical purposes Judenfrien.

And now the same thing is happening to Christians who have lived in this area from long before the time of Mohammed.

Coptic Christians, their numbers in Egypt a closely guarded secret, are resettling in droves in Ameirca and other Western countries.

Lebanon, once with a significant percentage, perhaps a quarter of the population of that country, now numbers a few percentage points.

The Assyrian Christians are an easy target in post-Saddam Iraq.

And in Palestine, Bethelehem, once a Christian city, is now predominately Muslim.

Dhimmitude was never an easy life for the so called 'people of the book' in these lands. It often meant internalizing the dominant Moslem culture's low attitude of themselves, and towing the party line.

But it the last 50 years that the end of Christianity in the Islamic Middle East is a distinct possibility.

Christianity outside the Middle East has become so factionalized that few, outside of Orthodox whose brethren are the mostaffected, really much care.

Jipsah · Sep 30, 2005

newlamb said:
I agree with you. Remember Saddam's right hand man - Tariq Aziz? He's supposed to be a Christian. I can't imagine how he thinks that he is, but he does.

Actually I don't agree with that; that's just what I've been told by some of my fundamentalist brethren. I think it's just a position they take so that they won't run the risk of disagreeing with whatever treatment Israel decides to inflict on the Palestinians. If they admitted that any Palestinians were Christians then it might seem awkward to be cheering when the Israelis shot or bulldozed the home of someone who we're supposed to consider our brothers in Christ.

It all leads to a kind of curious doublethink. Since the fundamentalist/dispensationalist position is that the Israelis can do no wrong, then if the Israelis abuse Palestinian Christians then we're compelled to deny that they were Christians at all. On the other hand, if Muslims abuse any of the brethren, then we reinstate them as Christians again and vow that such treatment will not be borne. More than a little schizophrenic, don't you think?

jasperbound · Sep 30, 2005

Jipsah said:
Actually I don't agree with that; that's just what I've been told by some of my fundamentalist brethren. I think it's just a position they take so that they won't run the risk of disagreeing with whatever treatment Israel decides to inflict on the Palestinians. If they admitted that any Palestinians were Christians then it might seem awkward to be cheering when the Israelis shot or bulldozed the home of someone who we're supposed to consider our brothers in Christ.

It all leads to a kind of curious doublethink. Since the fundamentalist/dispensationalist position is that the Israelis can do no wrong, then if the Israelis abuse Palestinian Christians then we're compelled to deny that they were Christians at all. On the other hand, if Muslims abuse any of the brethren, then we reinstate them as Christians again and vow that such treatment will not be borne. More than a little schizophrenic, don't you think?

I wouldn't say schizophrenic, although inaccurate, because Israel can do wrong. However, it's no worse than the liberal position that Israel is the devil and Palestinians are all victims who just want to be their friends. I'm sure it feels good to be on the other side of the same coin, eh, rather than admit that Israelis have done wrong things, but so have the Palestinians, and both are victims and both are aggressors?

HelloToAll · Sep 30, 2005

solomon said:
Yes, but for Israel, the whole of the MIddle East and North Africa is for all practical purposes Judenfrien.

And now the same thing is happening to Christians who have lived in this area from long before the time of Mohammed.

Coptic Christians, their numbers in Egypt a closely guarded secret, are resettling in droves in Ameirca and other Western countries.

Lebanon, once with a significant percentage, perhaps a quarter of the population of that country, now numbers a few percentage points.

The Assyrian Christians are an easy target in post-Saddam Iraq.

And in Palestine, Bethelehem, once a Christian city, is now predominately Muslim.

Dhimmitude was never an easy life for the so called 'people of the book' in these lands. It often meant internalizing the dominant Moslem culture's low attitude of themselves, and towing the party line.

But it the last 50 years that the end of Christianity in the Islamic Middle East is a distinct possibility.

Christianity outside the Middle East has become so factionalized that few, outside of Orthodox whose brethren are the mostaffected, really much care.

Now that you mentioned the Coptic Christians, you should check out the website http://www.copts.com, that is dedicated to the Copts and talks about how badly, Egypt's Christian minority is being treated by the Muslim majority.

artybloke · Oct 1, 2005

However, it's no worse than the liberal position that Israel is the devil and Palestinians are all victims who just want to be their friends.

I'm a liberal, and I don't think Isreal is the devil. Don't presume to speak for me.

jasperbound · Oct 1, 2005

artybloke said:
I'm a liberal, and I don't think Isreal is the devil. Don't presume to speak for me.

So, strawmen are only good for one side?

SolomonVII · Oct 1, 2005

From OP linked article:

"One factor that could help prevent this dismal outcome would be for mainline Protestant churches to speak out against Palestinian Muslims for tormenting and expelling Palestinian Christians. To date, unfortunately, the Episcopalian, Evangelical Lutheran, Methodist, and Presbyterian churches, as well as the United Church of Christ, have ignored the problem."

This would seem to a bit part of the problem. It is not that others are presuming to speak for the liberals, but that the liberals(and not a few conseratives too) are not even speaking for themselves.

Athene · Oct 2, 2005

Jipsah said:
Not to worry, I've been assured by more than one good brother that there are no real Palestinian Christians, and that those who claim to be Christians are either lying or deceived. Therefore the pseudo-Christian Palestinians may be considered the lawful prey of either the Jews (being a Jew always trumps being a mere Christian anyway) or the Muslims.

Its amazing what some people will believe. Like another person has already stated, by claiming palestinian christians aren't actually christians, it's possible to condone Israeli behaviour against the palastinians because they aren't shooting our own are they?

That stuff really annoys me.

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Grammatically incorrect

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