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Exploring Christianity
Christian hate & insanity
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<blockquote data-quote="Curious Atheist" data-source="post: 60373735" data-attributes="member: 291697"><p>I can only deduce that you are implying that Satan has influenced what is written in the Bible. I have never heard this before, but if following the Bible to the word leads to the opposite of God then surely that is what you mean? How do you then determine if something is divinely inspired or a trick, perhaps a very, very, clever trick by the bearded chap downstairs? Or if you just mean they are forgetting Jesus died for our sins, then why is there still a list of sins and rules to be followed? If you can literally do anything you want and still be forgiven then what is the point of heaven and hell at all? Surely everyone will go to heaven? In that case, if you believe in a devil that can influence your life then what makes you think it isnt satan sending you these cryptic messages, some or all of the time which is all leading towards something terrible? I dont really expect you to answer some of these questions, but it is what I would be thinking in my more paranoid moments if I really believed what you say. Really it just comes down to you believing what you want to believe, as there are terrible things in the Bible that you ignore and you rationalise your own version of what God should be and believe it. You have also rationalise what is right and wrong for yourself too and havent just taken the Bibles word for it, which is the point I was making originally about atheists being immoral, which is utterly false when you see that religious people use exactly the same morals to deduce what parts of the book to ignore.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p> So you have to ask to be forgiven? But anyway, I cant accept what you say about God lending a helping hand because it clearly isnt true for the majority of people. There are many devout Christians in Africa who never even get half a chance to live like an identical person who was lucky enough to be born elsewhere. There are infinite examples of good people being completely screwed over, which you can rationalise is part of Gods plan but it doesnt really make sense if you say God lets you get the best results etc. Nor does it explain why so many bad people live the life of their dreams, which you might say will be punished after death but it certainly doesnt make sense if God is how you describe. If you only look for the evidence that supports your idea, you will obviously never see the full picture. Or maybe I am just bitter because I dont think God likes me very much if he is there, or maybe everyone who isnt getting these advantages from God, or isnt receiving the hard proof of his existence are just missing the tiny signs, but it seems far more likely we are in control of our own decisions and some things happen without it being linked to our destiny in some obscure way.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p> If God proved he existed to anyone who asked them there would be only one religion and no such thing as faith. From discussion with other Christians, God never reveals himself so you have the free will to not be convinced he is there by the Bible so your beliefs raise a lot of questions such as this. </p><p> However in reply to the part in bold, I am not sure I would want to worship the God of the Bible. There are too many examples of him being a complete profanity. I suppose if we knew of a creator it would be like having a parent, but that doesnt mean I have to agree with everything a parent does nor respect them if they are cruel and immoral. If my real father for example told me women for to obey their husbands, slavery is hunky dory, it is acceptable to test someones love by asking them to kill their children, that the first three things on my list of things to do revolve around worshipping him and no other, that mass genocide is OK as long as you are the father to them all, that killing first-borns is an acceptable punishment for disobedience etc etc etc I dont think I could respect him anymore. There really are far too many questionable actions by the biblical God that I couldnt honestly love him as the supreme moral creature he is unduly depicted as. Maybe I would follow out of fear of hell like many, but I hope I have a bigger pair than that.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p> I have asked, and if he knows my thoughts then he knows I would want proof he is there, of course I would. If he could explain that the Bible is wrong and not what he is about at all, then fair dos I would be converted 100% to his cause if that is what he wanted. But it hasnt happened, if I ask a question I have only my own thoughts in reply that I do not choose to decide are Gods words. If I asked him to turn my bath water red, it would not happen. But if I asked a vaguer request like just a sign of any kind, I could see that sign anywhere. That is why I mentioned mediums and psychics, they make vague comments and believers make it fit. I could say to you that God spoke to me about your granddad, who tells me he loves you also something coming through that his back doesnt bother him anymore and he feels young again. Anyone who wants to hear those words would be inclined to believe them, so people do in their masses. Does it not bother you that all supernatural beliefs revolve around the idea of hearing good news you desperately want to hear? All of them. It is all about believing there is purpose to everything, bad things happen for a reason and death isnt the end etc. Would you as readily believe we were created by Satan, for the pure purpose of being the puppeteer to a sick game and we are destined to suffer eternally? I doubt it, that wouldnt be what you would want to hear at all.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p> Why would the Bible mention that it is a sin then? I thought God wanted us to love each other, but has put a restriction on whom you can love? Although I totally agree that it is bizarre people make up their own scale of sins, since we can only get our morals from the Bible in some peoples opinions. I raised the point in a thread a while ago that gluttony is a sin, 90% of Americans are Christian yet around 60% are overweight and 30% obese (or more now, it is constantly increasing) so why isnt gluttony as condemned as other apparent sins. But people rationalise it away with God forgives this but apparently doesnt forgive the sins they find easier to avoid. People will just believe what they want to believe if it fits with what they want.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Curious Atheist, post: 60373735, member: 291697"] I can only deduce that you are implying that Satan has influenced what is written in the Bible. I have never heard this before, but if following the Bible to the word leads to the opposite of God then surely that is what you mean? How do you then determine if something is divinely inspired or a trick, perhaps a very, very, clever trick by the bearded chap downstairs? Or if you just mean they are forgetting Jesus died for our sins, then why is there still a list of sins and rules to be followed? If you can literally do anything you want and still be forgiven then what is the point of heaven and hell at all? Surely everyone will go to heaven? In that case, if you believe in a devil that can influence your life then what makes you think it isnt satan sending you these cryptic messages, some or all of the time which is all leading towards something terrible? I dont really expect you to answer some of these questions, but it is what I would be thinking in my more paranoid moments if I really believed what you say. Really it just comes down to you believing what you want to believe, as there are terrible things in the Bible that you ignore and you rationalise your own version of what God should be and believe it. You have also rationalise what is right and wrong for yourself too and havent just taken the Bibles word for it, which is the point I was making originally about atheists being immoral, which is utterly false when you see that religious people use exactly the same morals to deduce what parts of the book to ignore. So you have to ask to be forgiven? But anyway, I cant accept what you say about God lending a helping hand because it clearly isnt true for the majority of people. There are many devout Christians in Africa who never even get half a chance to live like an identical person who was lucky enough to be born elsewhere. There are infinite examples of good people being completely screwed over, which you can rationalise is part of Gods plan but it doesnt really make sense if you say God lets you get the best results etc. Nor does it explain why so many bad people live the life of their dreams, which you might say will be punished after death but it certainly doesnt make sense if God is how you describe. If you only look for the evidence that supports your idea, you will obviously never see the full picture. Or maybe I am just bitter because I dont think God likes me very much if he is there, or maybe everyone who isnt getting these advantages from God, or isnt receiving the hard proof of his existence are just missing the tiny signs, but it seems far more likely we are in control of our own decisions and some things happen without it being linked to our destiny in some obscure way. If God proved he existed to anyone who asked them there would be only one religion and no such thing as faith. From discussion with other Christians, God never reveals himself so you have the free will to not be convinced he is there by the Bible so your beliefs raise a lot of questions such as this. However in reply to the part in bold, I am not sure I would want to worship the God of the Bible. There are too many examples of him being a complete profanity. I suppose if we knew of a creator it would be like having a parent, but that doesnt mean I have to agree with everything a parent does nor respect them if they are cruel and immoral. If my real father for example told me women for to obey their husbands, slavery is hunky dory, it is acceptable to test someones love by asking them to kill their children, that the first three things on my list of things to do revolve around worshipping him and no other, that mass genocide is OK as long as you are the father to them all, that killing first-borns is an acceptable punishment for disobedience etc etc etc I dont think I could respect him anymore. There really are far too many questionable actions by the biblical God that I couldnt honestly love him as the supreme moral creature he is unduly depicted as. Maybe I would follow out of fear of hell like many, but I hope I have a bigger pair than that. I have asked, and if he knows my thoughts then he knows I would want proof he is there, of course I would. If he could explain that the Bible is wrong and not what he is about at all, then fair dos I would be converted 100% to his cause if that is what he wanted. But it hasnt happened, if I ask a question I have only my own thoughts in reply that I do not choose to decide are Gods words. If I asked him to turn my bath water red, it would not happen. But if I asked a vaguer request like just a sign of any kind, I could see that sign anywhere. That is why I mentioned mediums and psychics, they make vague comments and believers make it fit. I could say to you that God spoke to me about your granddad, who tells me he loves you also something coming through that his back doesnt bother him anymore and he feels young again. Anyone who wants to hear those words would be inclined to believe them, so people do in their masses. Does it not bother you that all supernatural beliefs revolve around the idea of hearing good news you desperately want to hear? All of them. It is all about believing there is purpose to everything, bad things happen for a reason and death isnt the end etc. Would you as readily believe we were created by Satan, for the pure purpose of being the puppeteer to a sick game and we are destined to suffer eternally? I doubt it, that wouldnt be what you would want to hear at all. Why would the Bible mention that it is a sin then? I thought God wanted us to love each other, but has put a restriction on whom you can love? Although I totally agree that it is bizarre people make up their own scale of sins, since we can only get our morals from the Bible in some peoples opinions. I raised the point in a thread a while ago that gluttony is a sin, 90% of Americans are Christian yet around 60% are overweight and 30% obese (or more now, it is constantly increasing) so why isnt gluttony as condemned as other apparent sins. But people rationalise it away with God forgives this but apparently doesnt forgive the sins they find easier to avoid. People will just believe what they want to believe if it fits with what they want. [/QUOTE]
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