Christian Forums Under New Management

Nadiine · Nov 4, 2007

To Amoranemix --

Yes, it's gone from democracy to dictatorship once again, and even the conservative Christians I know weren't happy with that in CF days....

The ONLY thing I liked about Erwin's "vision" was that he at least attempted to bring democracy -- I do believe it went too far in the disfavor of staff, but handing them complete rule & reign is........
well, we see the mass complaints prior to 7/7/7 about that; from BOTH sides.

Staff is thrilled, and members are shoved back under the rule & reign they once had that caused many to leave in the first place.
Nevermind BIAS... that's a whole other problem now that we've seen staff listings.
There needs to be EQUALITY as to religious bent in staff (at least anyone making decisions above a Moderator).

This is scary - AGAIN.

Well you know the saying, if you cant' beat em, JOIN EM. Time to get some mod apps. lol

Citizen of the Kingdom · Nov 4, 2007

Why weren't forum closures such as reports announced?

Citizen of the Kingdom · Nov 4, 2007

Violation of human rights there Lee, that;s not very cool of you. Especially to do it so underhanded.

MrJim · Nov 4, 2007

Are any of the staff on the payroll?

NorrinRadd · Nov 4, 2007

Evangelica said:
Violation of human rights there Lee, that;s not very cool of you. Especially to do it so underhanded.

A bit overly dramatic.

I wonder when the mods will start waterboarding.

PreachersWife2004 · Nov 4, 2007

The day my human rights are tied to a website is the day I will become a hermit.

I guess the saying "you can't please everyone" certainly works here. You couldn't pay me to own this site.

God bless ya, Lee.

BelindaP · Nov 4, 2007

Actually, Lee did mention closure of the reports forums in his opening announcement.

And I agree with PW--message boards can't deny anyone their human rights. Just log off and resume life as normal.

Lisa0315 · Nov 4, 2007

Amoranemix said:
The need for clear leadership and equating that to dictatorship seems to be a Christian thing.

For those who dont like the idea of clear leadership obviously clear leadership would be the problem. For most though it is dictatorship that is the problem.

So the procedures that must create the illusion that justice will be served are being put in place. Illusions have no place is a justice system.

I doubt LeeD sees it that way. He probably tries to compromise between God and profit.

Erwin denied having plans to sell the forum.

I disagree that Christians should be held to a higher standard and the rules hold non-Christians to higher standard.

[1] I dont know one, but I am ill-informed. We may still have an opportunity, be it only to a small degree, to be unique.
[2] The reason lions eat wildebeest is because that works. That doesnt mean that the wildebeest should support lions eating them.

So power abuse and inequality serve the body of Christ. Cool. Ill try remembering that for my debates with Christians.

Just as with the wiki process my advice is not to throw away the baby with the bathwater. Reducing the anonymity of the posters in the reports should diminish the problem.

The idea that one can proficiently run a complex society with few simple rules is naïve. It would only work if the authorities consist of nothing but good people.

Stranger (post 559) has a point. Giving people special powers and access inflates their ego and makes them even worse sinners.

Thirst_for_knowledge : Broad rules really aren't good. We need rules that leave as little up to interpretation as possible.
Eldermike 560: That's impossible.
Geocajun : Exactly. If it were, God would have done in with the bible
Of course it is possible, by definition. What makes you think it is impossible ?

To me it seems right that those who pay more get more.

While we are waiting we might as well be complaining. Its not those who stay silent that are listened to. You werent waiting and seeing when you joined the anti-wiki crowd.

Both are very unlikely and no one is in support of the second.

Its not the motives but the new policy that I am judging.

It is not because LeeD has the right to run his site badly that we should applaud that.

From Forum Specific Rules will no longer be used!
Who is going to do that, encouraging members to develop guidelines ? Sounds like wishful thinking to me. I have been wasting time with developing rules. Why should I waste more with developing guidelines ?

My private conversations with staff so far (since I joined) were mediocre. The Review Committee reduced the average due to their lacking communication regarding appeals. The rest I would evaluate as mediocre to good.

Lindon Tinuviel 647 :The simplest solution I've found for making sure that Reports are handled in a fair and timely manner is to PM every Mod in charge of that Forum and explain the situation... in great detail. As often as you need to.
Angel4Truth : Floating you can always pm a staff member of the team the post is in. Please allow time for it to be taken care of also
That is impractical. Not everyone has a 4 digit PM box size.

[1]If the ruling is NV it is not important to know you are reported.
[2] I didnt receive notice.

I dont think LeeD is any longer in the mood for answering members. Normally the mockery you mention falls under the no flaming rules. It did before. LeeD appears to want to appeal to an as broad a public as possible, as long as they accept dictatorship.

Taking away peoples freedom usually increases order. Taking away the people altogether increases order even more.

This is a chat thread until the police shows up who briefly turn it into a discussion thread and when they leave it becomes a chat thread again.

In the mean time LeeD has closed all the thread in the General wiki forum and in the wiki/rules discussion forum. I am changing my mind from thinking that LeeD followed the majority that it is the majority who sometimes follows LeeD. Changing my signature Erwin listens to the members like God listens to his creatures. into LeeD listens to the members like God listens to his creatures. may be appropriate after all.

I find it noteworthy that no one objects to the name being changed back to christianforums.

Multi-quoting is evil.

Lisa

Citizen of the Kingdom · Nov 4, 2007

BelindaP said:
Actually, Lee did mention closure of the reports forums in his opening announcement.

And I agree with PW--message boards can't deny anyone their human rights. Just log off and resume life as normal.

or move to another country where rights are respected

PreachersWife2004 · Nov 4, 2007

Evangelica said:
or move to another country where rights are respected

If you really feel as though your rights have been violated, I'm sure the ACLU would LOVE to help you take down Christian Forums.

Nadiine · Nov 4, 2007

PreachersWife2004 said:
The day my human rights are tied to a website is the day I will become a hermit.

I guess the saying "you can't please everyone" certainly works here. You couldn't pay me to own this site.

God bless ya, Lee.

The reason you can't please everyone is 1) proper definitions of what a CHRISTIAN is haven't been implimented on a "Christian" site.

2) You 're trying to please sheep & goats at the same time. Cannot be done.

3) Mediums have to be implimented - not extremes. There were many criticisms prior toi 7/7/7... to go back to 99% CF oldschool is going to raise the SAME complaints from the people who remember that "broken" system as well.

Erwin went FAR too overboard on ecumenicalism & self governing by opposing groups. It was bound to fall apart.

The problem is, extremes while trying to please all the people who are opposites (socially, politically & spiritually) as if you're all going to unite.

Other Christian forums don't go thru this & there's a reason for that, they properly define and keep members that are in agreement with the definitions.
THAT makes for a healthier system imo.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Nov 4, 2007

the gatekeepers have spoken

PreachersWife2004 · Nov 4, 2007

Well, Nadiine, I agree with you there, except for at most other Christian sites the definition is a simple question: do you believe in Christ Crucified? Maybe not THAT simple, but close enough.

I think that no matter what Lee does, there will be people upset with him. It happens. Being a webmaster is not an easy job!

And going through changes won't be easy. Heck, a lot of what I just learned in my mod training is now obsolete! I think I actually have homework now because of this site! The TRAVESTY!

There's going to be bumps along the way. I really see Lee is trying to reverse a lot of the wrong stuff that happened in the last three months. Let's give him our prayers that he succeeds!

Citizen of the Kingdom · Nov 4, 2007

It has reversed to the point of underhandedness. The do-gooders vs the voiceless underthumbs

Citizen of the Kingdom · Nov 4, 2007

obsolete is as obsolete does.

Nadiine · Nov 4, 2007

Evangelica said:
It has reversed to the point of underhandedness. The do-gooders vs the voiceless underthumbs

This is why Erwin made the changes btwn staff & members to make it more even. The old system was riddled with members complaining... and I notice the main people UPHOLDING and applauding Lee's change on this are MODERATORS & STAFF.

(wonder why?) *wink*
The old CF system w/ mods & rules & infractions was a nitemare and if there's NO middle ground to give members some leverage, they're at the mercy of all staff and ordered to keep SILENT about the issues.

This is a big problem that won't go away. If Lee keeps this system, I don't know how it will be accepted or for how long.
People are already adgitated on this one aspect. We WANT authority & leadership; not dictatorship where the "surfs" are silenced & censored.

heavy

There HAS to be a better system; an in between to Erwin's "cowboy daze" and "gustapo".
Why not search how to have a more level plan so members dont' become victims of staff rule or bias (which is an issue and always had been if you look at staff lists).

PreachersWife2004 · Nov 4, 2007

Ya know, Nadiine, if I truly craved power, I would just start my own website.

I didn't become a moderator for the power, nor did I become a moderator to silence people. I became a moderator because I wanted to help. I realized that things were broken and I figured that being on staff might afford me some small capacity in helping to fix things.

I can guarantee you that there are others on staff who feel as I do. Please, PLEASE don't pain all mods with such a broad stroke, 'kay?

Nadiine · Nov 4, 2007

PreachersWife2004 said:
Well, Nadiine, I agree with you there, except for at most other Christian sites the definition is a simple question: do you believe in Christ Crucified? Maybe not THAT simple, but close enough.

I think that no matter what Lee does, there will be people upset with him. It happens. Being a webmaster is not an easy job!

And going through changes won't be easy. Heck, a lot of what I just learned in my mod training is now obsolete! I think I actually have homework now because of this site! The TRAVESTY!

There's going to be bumps along the way. I really see Lee is trying to reverse a lot of the wrong stuff that happened in the last three months. Let's give him our prayers that he succeeds!

Well, honestly, Lee HAD to have seen this site & our boards BEFORE buying it. He took this on willfully, it wasn't dumped on him and he's stuck.

Secondly, if he's a business person and taking on a job like this, he's not only able to accept complaints & criticisms, he should be expecting them. (men are different in this area than females are for the most part; we cannot handle criticism/complaints as well & we tend to take them very personally).

He has to expect this. Criticism also isn't wrong or bad necessarily. Without it, how does anything get fixed?

The only thing I take issue with are the ad hom attacks, expecting him to be Superman & answer every question the minute they're posted... attackign him for having a LIFE outside this forum...
Judging his motives - the stuff like "he's in this for money"... I mean, that's just nasty.
Stick to issues alone & what affects us, not that personal poop that has no place here & it's unfair & cruel.

Hope that makes sense?

Nadiine · Nov 4, 2007

PreachersWife2004 said:
Ya know, Nadiine, if I truly craved power, I would just start my own website.

I didn't become a moderator for the power, nor did I become a moderator to silence people. I became a moderator because I wanted to help. I realized that things were broken and I figured that being on staff might afford me some small capacity in helping to fix things.

I can guarantee you that there are others on staff who feel as I do. Please, PLEASE don't pain all mods with such a broad stroke, 'kay?

I didn't say you 'craved' power... and obviously I cannot lump all mods together. I know of 2 active mods that I respect & value and know they have no bias - I do know some others tho.... thus the worries.

& besides, if you 'craved' power, you wouldn't of been a Mod during the "wild cowboy" system! lol right?

I should specify more who I mean, but this a Staffers DREAM to have this sytem, and I don't know of one staffer that "dislikes" the power they're given now.

Unless you deny you dislike it specifically here?

PreachersWife2004 · Nov 4, 2007

I'd be foolish if I denied liking power.

However, in reality, the power I have here is miniscule. I mean, really. I can ban you (general you) from participating for two weeks. That's really the extent of my power.

And I do understand what you're saying. But ask most mods right now and they'll probably tell you that CF right now is their nightmare. (I dreamed about it last night, myself!) And I realize you weren't pointing to me specifically by any means, but you did use a pretty broad brush and I think I got some paint on me - no harm or foul though, I'm totally trying to get rid of that brush myself these days, too.

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