Christian entertainment, specifically videogames. Can/should we play them?

[NothingIsImpossible]

Its really one of those "Do you feel convicted?" topics. If you feel convicted, then maybe Gods saying don't play them. Or in some cases people have conviction about certain games. Maybe gory games or games with lots of swearing. I mean technically we shouldn't really play those types of games anyways but its not a sin to. The bigger problem comes from if they rule your life or if they change you in a bad way. In that case cut the games out.

 

[ChristianR_]

To God, this is not the case. To God, it's about the heart. To God, even the thought of foolishness is sin. To God, if a man even looks upon another woman to lust after her in his heart, he has already committed adultery.

God does not judge just the actions of a man, but the motivations and intentions as well. If the intent of the heart is wickedness (which it is), then God judges that for what it is, even if that heart never acts upon the wickedness within it.

You may be an atheist without hope, but do not cause this newly found Christian to stumble as a result of your lies, please. You know not what you're saying.

Just because someone plays a video game, doesn't mean it is their intention to do the actual things in it, though. And, to my knowledge, never is it said that God will actually count it as a sin for having temptation (other than lust), only if you actually give in to it. "Lie" is a bit of a stretch, too. To lie is to say something false with the intention of misleading someone. If one were to use the word "lie" like the context you used it in, then you would be lying, as you were wrong about me lying. If I am wrong in what I'm saying, mistaken would be a better word to use.

 

[RDKirk]

Hi, I became a Christian early last month and since then I haven't played any videogames. I didn't really miss them in a big way until recently. Recently I have been wanting to play some of the games I own. I've been arguing with myself about whether they're good for a Christian to play...

Then, I searched google for answers and found this post: https://www.jeffwofford.com/?p=1754

I would like to discuss the question and the post here.

Let me apply some scripture to the question, as it appears nobody else has yet.

Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. -- Philippians 4

The ancient Graeco-Romans had plenty of entertainment and games, and much of it was coarse and violent. Yet, much of it also told stories of noble deeds and noble causes. They had beautiful art, beautiful poetry and such.

By saying "whatever," Paul means...whatever.

But he gives us the characteristics by which to judge such things. Do they enhance our spirits or degrade our spirits? Is there a hero attempting to do good, or is the story only about shades of evil?

It doesn't have to be "pretty" and "nice." There are parts of the bible that aren't at all pretty or nice.

But are there good guys--people who are striving to do what is right--and do they win over evil in the end?

Do you feel debased by the end or ennobled?

 

[TuxAme]

It's a perfectly acceptable form of entertainment as long as it's not done in excess.

 

[Jon Osterman]

Yes, it does represent persons.
But do you think of this when you're playing?
Death, I mean.
I never thought of chess as being violent.

Someone showed me a game being featured on YouTube,,,,grand theft auto. I thought that was very violent because it represented real persons and not these imaginary kingdoms.

But I don't know too much about this.

I don't think it is reasonable to look at a game like Grand Theft Auto and from that declare all video games to be bad. Some are very questionable, but others are very harmless. Even violent games like GTA often have an underlying morale message. Spc-Ops: The Line for example was somewhat subversive in that it is an anti-war game dressed up as a first person shooter. As such it was able to reach a demographic (teenage boys) who would otherwise never even contemplate the brutality of war.

Some games have no redeeming features of course, but that is true of books too.

 

[RDKirk]

Even violent games like GTA often have an underlying morale message. Spc-Ops: The Line for example was somewhat subversive in that it is an anti-war game dressed up as a first person shooter. .

Do you mean that it was possible to win the game without shooting anyone?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Hi, I became a Christian early last month and since then I haven't played any videogames. I didn't really miss them in a big way until recently. Recently I have been wanting to play some of the games I own. I've been arguing with myself about whether they're good for a Christian to play...

Then, I searched google for answers and found this post: https://www.jeffwofford.com/?p=1754

I would like to discuss the question and the post here.

If you want to play some games, then play them.

The idea that Christians are forbidden from engaging in innocuous activities like watching movies, listening to music, playing video games, or growing a flower garden is an incredibly bizarre idea to me.

Some things are moral issues, namely how we treat other people. But much in life isn't a moral issue--what food to eat, what clothes to wear, what brand of shampoo to use, movies, television, music, other forms of entertainment, playing sports, and various other mundane activities.

Throughout the New Testament we find St. Paul talking about the importance of Christian liberty of conscience, and to allow differences between Christians concerning matters of conscience. The Apostle shows very little tolerance for the sorts of moralistic busybodies going around saying "don't handle, don't taste, don't touch" (Colossians 2:20-23). Instead the Apostle consistently teaches that when it comes to things like what we eat or drink, or other such matters that we are to follow our conscience and not let others judge us and not to judge others,

"One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him." (Romans 14:2-3)

The idea of weakness of faith here may sound weird, but the Apostle has in mind the idea that people who may not know better--that they are free to eat as they want--may suffer from guilt of conscience. The Apostle instructs neither belittling nor judgment, but a loving acceptance of one another in Christ.

This means that the only person who can decide whether or not it's okay for you to play video games is you. As you are a new convert, I would also hope that you are part of a healthy, loving, and uplifting church community and, therefore, can receive good pastoral counseling and guidance as you are beginning your road toward Christian living. A good pastor would happily help you through these things, letting you know that being a Christian doesn't mean there is suddenly some complex rule book to follow, but that being a Christian means sharing in the life of the Church.

Does your current church provide some kind of religious formation/education for new converts? In many mainstream churches this is usually a kind of Sunday School program that will help lead you toward eventually receiving Baptism, such explaining the basics of the Christian religion, helping answer questions that you have, etc. It's also usually pretty open, meaning there isn't necessarily any obligation for you to join if you don't want to. Any church worth its salt will have those options available, with transparency, honesty, and without coercion to help you grow and help you get your footing.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[GodsGrace101]

Exactly, and we were warned of this in Paul's epistles and from the words of Christ. "Iniquity shall abound, and the love of many shall wax cold."

For God, it's always about what is in the heart. A person could never murder another person physically, but if he even hates another without cause, to God that is the equivalent of murder; which speaks to a holiness our society no longer can fathom.

Right. Thanks for the scripture; I didn't even think of it.

I do think of Mathew 5 though, 3-10, the behavior Jesus spoke of in the Beatitudes sermon on the mount.

We're so far from that these days...
Your last sentence is spot on.

 

[GodsGrace101]

My opinion on Christians and secular entertainment, is that it's totally okay for a Christian to enjoy it. There's nothing wrong with one playing a video game like GTA. You aren't actually carrying out the sins in them. It's all fake. You just have to be careful to not actually indulge to them in real life. If you can't trust yourself to resist temptations, then don't play something that could bring them up. There's plenty of more appropriate video games, too. Stardew Valley, Overwatch, BOTW, Terraria, etc.

How is it OK to simulate such violence?
You're the perfect example of my statements...you have been desensitized to violence so that you either don't recognize it or are impervious to it.

Did you know that in London, this type of violence really started to happen? Persons getting hit on the street, some were stabbed while walking somewhere.

I'm not saying YOU would do this, but WE ADULTS should know better than to even have such programs (software) available. It's SICK! And we shouldn't be feeding the sickness that some in our society feel they need or enjoy. Or giving persons new and violent ideas...

This is what a civil society is all about --- acting civilly. I fear we don't even know what this is anymore.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Its really one of those "Do you feel convicted?" topics. If you feel convicted, then maybe Gods saying don't play them. Or in some cases people have conviction about certain games. Maybe gory games or games with lots of swearing. I mean technically we shouldn't really play those types of games anyways but its not a sin to. The bigger problem comes from if they rule your life or if they change you in a bad way. In that case cut the games out.

When they change you in a bad way?

Wouldn't that be kind of too late?
Isn't this why Jesus set forth certain behaviors?
To save us from being affected in a bad way...
We're the light of the world, we're supposed to shine our light on the rest of humanity...

We're the salt of the earth, what if we lose our saltiness?

Mathew 5:13-14

 

[GodsGrace101]

Just because someone plays a video game, doesn't mean it is their intention to do the actual things in it, though. And, to my knowledge, never is it said that God will actually count it as a sin for having temptation (other than lust), only if you actually give in to it. "Lie" is a bit of a stretch, too. To lie is to say something false with the intention of misleading someone. If one were to use the word "lie" like the context you used it in, then you would be lying, as you were wrong about me lying. If I am wrong in what I'm saying, mistaken would be a better word to use.

Only lust is a sin of temptation?
Jesus used this as an example,,,He didn't mean that it's the ONLY sin of temptation. There are many temptations in life.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I don't think it is reasonable to look at a game like Grand Theft Auto and from that declare all video games to be bad. Some are very questionable, but others are very harmless. Even violent games like GTA often have an underlying morale message. Spc-Ops: The Line for example was somewhat subversive in that it is an anti-war game dressed up as a first person shooter. As such it was able to reach a demographic (teenage boys) who would otherwise never even contemplate the brutality of war.

Some games have no redeeming features of course, but that is true of books too.

I didn't declare all video games to be bad.
I said that GTA was way too much violence for me, and I DO believe its a very bad video game. Exactly because it's so realistic.

As to it being ANTI-WAR, you don't use violence to combat violence.

I see this also in movies and it's a very bad theme...
Reason should be used to combat violence.
The visible difference between violence and peacefulness should be used to combat violence.
You know what they say: Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[Jon Osterman]

Do you mean that it was possible to win the game without shooting anyone?

No. You play a special-ops soldier fighting against rouge elements in a future version of Dubai, and are forced into violent acts by the circumstances. However, it doesn't glamourise or sugar-coat it at all, making it all very horrific. At one point napalm is used and you have to walk through a burned refugee camp with all the horribly burned civilian victims in it (including children). Quite a few people have said that playing this game changed the way they think about the west conducting wars in other countries.

I think the point is though that games are now a rather well developed media, and like any form of media can transmit useful ideas or unhealthy ones. We do not declare all books to be immoral because of the existence of Fifty Shades of Grey, and we should not declare all games to be immoral because of the existence of GTA.

 

[RDKirk]

No. You play a special-ops soldier fighting against rouge elements in a future version of Dubai, and are forced into violent acts by the circumstances. However, it doesn't glamourise or sugar-coat it at all, making it all very horrific. At one point napalm is used and you have to walk through a burned refugee camp with all the horribly burned civilian victims in it (including children). Quite a few people have said that playing this game changed the way they think about the west conducting wars in other countries.

I think the point is though that games are now a rather well developed media, and like any form of media can transmit useful ideas or unhealthy ones. We do not declare all books to be immoral because of the existence of Fifty Shades of Grey, and we should not declare all games to be immoral because of the existence of GTA.

My relatives who have been in combat say that you don't really "get it" unless you can smell it. And once you've smelled it, the odor never leaves your nose.

But what if there were a game that could be won through negotiation--if the way to win is to find a way not to shoot anyone?

 

[Jon Osterman]

But what if there were a game that could be won through negotiation--if the way to win is to find a way not to shoot anyone?

There are many games like this. In fact, many games that may outwardly appear physically violent are like this. For example Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Dishonored both have special achievements for completing the game without killing anyone. (Though admittedly they are still violent because you still have to disable violent antagonists.) And of course there are plenty of games with no violent conflict at all.

 

[Dansiph]

If you want to play some games, then play them.

The idea that Christians are forbidden from engaging in innocuous activities like watching movies, listening to music, playing video games, or growing a flower garden is an incredibly bizarre idea to me.

Some things are moral issues, namely how we treat other people. But much in life isn't a moral issue--what food to eat, what clothes to wear, what brand of shampoo to use, movies, television, music, other forms of entertainment, playing sports, and various other mundane activities.

Throughout the New Testament we find St. Paul talking about the importance of Christian liberty of conscience, and to allow differences between Christians concerning matters of conscience. The Apostle shows very little tolerance for the sorts of moralistic busybodies going around saying "don't handle, don't taste, don't touch" (Colossians 2:20-23). Instead the Apostle consistently teaches that when it comes to things like what we eat or drink, or other such matters that we are to follow our conscience and not let others judge us and not to judge others,

"One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him." (Romans 14:2-3)

The idea of weakness of faith here may sound weird, but the Apostle has in mind the idea that people who may not know better--that they are free to eat as they want--may suffer from guilt of conscience. The Apostle instructs neither belittling nor judgment, but a loving acceptance of one another in Christ.

This means that the only person who can decide whether or not it's okay for you to play video games is you. As you are a new convert, I would also hope that you are part of a healthy, loving, and uplifting church community and, therefore, can receive good pastoral counseling and guidance as you are beginning your road toward Christian living. A good pastor would happily help you through these things, letting you know that being a Christian doesn't mean there is suddenly some complex rule book to follow, but that being a Christian means sharing in the life of the Church.

Does your current church provide some kind of religious formation/education for new converts? In many mainstream churches this is usually a kind of Sunday School program that will help lead you toward eventually receiving Baptism, such explaining the basics of the Christian religion, helping answer questions that you have, etc. It's also usually pretty open, meaning there isn't necessarily any obligation for you to join if you don't want to. Any church worth its salt will have those options available, with transparency, honesty, and without coercion to help you grow and help you get your footing.

-CryptoLutheran

Unfortunately I haven't attended a church yet, I had one in mind but felt they didn't go along with my beliefs based on the denomination, I'm now looking at attending another.

I can see why a lot of Christians oppose watching a lot of movies as a lot of them promote bad things and have ulterior motives. Same with some music. I think videogames can be different (as can the others).

 

[GodsGrace101]

Unfortunately I haven't attended a church yet, I had one in mind but felt they didn't go along with my beliefs based on the denomination, I'm now looking at attending another.

I can see why a lot of Christians oppose watching a lot of movies as a lot of them promote bad things and have ulterior motives. Same with some music. I think videogames can be different (as can the others).

I'd have to agree.
Anything could be good, anything could be bad.
It's all in how it's used.

Do churches go along with our beliefs, or do we go along with the church's belief?

 

[Dansiph]

There are many games like this. In fact, many games that may outwardly appear physically violent are like this. For example Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Dishonored both have special achievements for completing the game without killing anyone. (Though admittedly they are still violent because you still have to disable violent antagonists.) And of course there are plenty of games with no violent conflict at all.

Those games were actually some of my favourites. I started to play less and less videogames before becoming a Christian and once I did, I stopped completely.

The game I wanted to play recently was Dishonored 2 which I have started but stopped for the above reasons. I like the fictional settings of Dunwall and Karnaca and the game's general design and artwork. There's other elements of the game which make me think twice about playing. The assassin role, the overseers and the outsider story to name some. How do you feel about those elements? I know it's a game and it doesn't hinder my belief in God and being a Christian but something stops me from playing atm

 

[Dansiph]

I'd have to agree.
Anything could be good, anything could be bad.
It's all in how it's used.

Do churches go along with our beliefs, or do we go along with the church's belief?

I'm not sure about that, I think though, there could be a lot of factors going into beliefs. For example I became a Christian at the age of 24 but others are raised as Christians. That could have a big impact. Also the tradition and culture surrounding people in their lives

 

[GodsGrace101]

I'm not sure about that, I think though, there could be a lot of factors going into beliefs. For example I became a Christian at the age of 24 but others are raised as Christians. That could have a big impact. Also the tradition and culture surrounding people in their lives

I became a Christian at the age of 28.
I knew some things were wrong. I'd never heard of universalism, but I knew it was wrong. I'm not sure we could go to a church with which we agree on everything. But we do have to go to one we can trust.
Sorry to have derailed a bit....