Christian Direction and Identity

Josheb · Jan 26, 2020

timothyu said:
As I said, they simply followed the will of the Father which is to love all as self. It was a way of life.

That is not an aswer to any of the questions I asked.

From whence did you get the ideas expressed in this op? Do you have a source(s) you can cite for the benefit of others?

Tone · Jan 26, 2020

Ricky M said:
We're going to get to find out here shortly

Come Lord Jesus!

The thing about all this is...I have been thinking about this lately....We know that Messiah accomplished many great and miraculous things while He walked this earth, the greatest one being (I would say) His willing death upon the cross. Of course, the most powerful and amazing and world shaking part came a few days later...His resurrection, which I would place as out of this world. What I mean by that is, yes, He rose again in bodily (glorified) form here on this ole earth, but I believe He was already in the heavenly places (where we are supposed to be even now with Him).

So, what I'm getting at is we should be able to look at the world around us and see just what it is that He accomplished when He:

Colossians 2
"15And having disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross."

Because, don't you believe that He conquered history itself?

thecolorsblend · Jan 26, 2020

timothyu said:
The people of the Way already had a religion not that that is relevant. But the whole concept behind Jesus' teachings was to love all as self and live accordingly. It was the way of the Kingdom. Too bad it didn't stick. But of course the self serving ways of man would never allow it to and that is why those of the Kingdom walk the narrow path.

Soyeong · Jan 27, 2020

timothyu said:
In the decades and centuries following the earliest post-Resurrection days of Christianity, the Greek language and philosophies, the Roman law and institutional concepts, Mediterranean art and previous deities, and so on, all influenced the formulation of the Christian religion.

Yet the original 'church', the Way, was not a religion but a way of life built upon the principles of putting the will of the Father ahead of our own and loving all as self... living an almost communal lifestyle. Had it been allowed to grow, what would the world be like today? Which direction more emulates the Kingdom of God?

Why a way of life built upon the principles of putting the will of the Father ahead of our own and loving all as self exclusive from being a religion?

The Father straightforwardly makes His will known through His law (Psalms 40:8). Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand (Matthew 4:17-23) and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, which is the same Gospel that Jesus said was to be proclaimed to the nations (Matthew 24:12-14). The same goes for Acts 2:38 when Peter told his audience to repent for the forgiveness of sins. Every kingdom has laws that govern the conduct of its citizens and God's law is straightforwardly the law of God's Kingdom. However, God wanted them to proclaim the Gospel of the Kingdom to the nations while they wanted to stay together, so God dispersed them, which makes it strange that so many want to go back to the Acts 2 community, especially while rejecting the Mosaic Law.

NW82 · Jan 27, 2020

HTacianas said:
Why don't you explain to us what that is.

Sounds like the OP is wanting to use justification, through Christianity, to support Marxism. The problem is that, given human nature, it will never work until Christ's millennial reign.

Norbert L · Jan 27, 2020

timothyu said:
living an almost communal lifestyle. Had it been allowed to grow, what would the world be like today? Which direction more emulates the Kingdom of God?

When looking at the historical shortcomings of Christianity. It would also likewise gone into the other side of the broad road and fallen into that ditch. We'd have Christian versions of Stalinist Russia and Mao's China.

Just about any way you want to slice that cake their will be people with itching ears that will have gone the way of Cain, Balaam’s error and Korah's rebellion.

Let's not pretend that it would of all been puppy dogs and kittens.

HTacianas · Jan 27, 2020

NW82 said:
Sounds like the OP is wanting to use justification, through Christianity, to support Marxism. The problem is that, given human nature, it will never work until Christ's millennial reign.

I don't think it's Marxism he's getting at. His description of the early Church is accurate. I just need some specifics on how he feels the Church went wrong.

MrsFoundit · Jan 27, 2020

timothyu said:
In the decades and centuries following the earliest post-Resurrection days of Christianity, the Greek language and philosophies, the Roman law and institutional concepts, Mediterranean art and previous deities, and so on, all influenced the formulation of the Christian religion.

Yet the original 'church', the Way, was not a religion but a way of life built upon the principles of putting the will of the Father ahead of our own and loving all as self... living an almost communal lifestyle. Had it been allowed to grow, what would the world be like today? Which direction more emulates the Kingdom of God?

What is the relevance for Creationism and Theistic Evolution please?

Lady Donna Marie · Jan 27, 2020

JackRT said:
To me, reading both the Bible and history, Jesus was not about starting a new religion but about reforming second temple Judaism.

Yes, Jack.

The word Orthodox means right and correct belief. Those that were Orthodox Jews in the Old Testament are called Orthodox because during that time it was the right and correct belief, then when Jesus came and the faith continues as Orthodox with Christian attached it still is the right and correct belief, Christianity.

One major difference was the Old Testament Jews that didn't believe Jesus was God, but a prophet. That shouldn't come to a surprise since there were many times that they lost the faith that God gave them and needed guided back. They were given the scriptures to know Christ was coming, but some of them would not accept Him as God. That reminds me of the rich man and the poor man Lazarus.

Luke 16:19-31 King James Version (KJV)
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldst send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Lady Donna Marie · Jan 27, 2020

Norman70 · Jan 27, 2020

Interesting thread, showing exactly where Christianity went wrong. It went wrong when it became a religion. Constantine had a lot to do with that, but humanity wanted it too, as they have always done, well described in 1 Samuel when God gave the Israelites a king because that was what they wanted, having rejected Him.
BTW, I am interested in Christian Anarchism, I am certainly not a Marxist. Read "The Kingdom of God is Within You" by Leo Tolstoy.
I just looked up a dictionary definition of religion and am not surprised there was no mention of God as a participant in those who hold to a set of beliefs. As I have always said, all religions are constructs of the human mind, and we are all in sin. Turn to God and give up your religion. ("How to be a Christian Without Being Religious", by Fritz Ridenour).

Lady Donna Marie · Jan 27, 2020

Norman70 said:
Interesting thread, showing exactly where Christianity went wrong. It went wrong when it became a religion.

So are you implying that the Old Testament Orthodox Jews went wrong because of the way they practiced their faith?

Structure is a good thing. Structure doesn't mean that one will be robotic about what they practice. It all comes down to the heart of what a person is doing and why.

Norman70 · Jan 27, 2020

I am not implying anything, I am saying it. According to Christian mythology we all went wrong when Adam and Eve ate the apples. There is lots of good in the world, thank God I say, but I do not thank religions, any of them.

Lady Donna Marie · Jan 27, 2020

Josheb · Jan 27, 2020

JackRT said:
To me, reading both the Bible and history, Jesus was not about starting a new religion but about reforming second temple Judaism.

Fail.

Jesus is the temple (Jn. 2:21).

Jesus, and his body of regenerate believers is the temple (1 Cor. 3:16).

The only temple God ever planned on building (2 Sam. 7).

God does not live in buildings made by human hands (2 Sam. 7:5-7; 1 Kng 8:27; Isa. 66:1; Acts 7:48 & 17:23).

God built His temple, not man (2 Sam. 7:11; 2 Cor. 5:1).

The laws of God prohibit the hewing of stone and the laying of tool to stone in His altars (Dt. 27:5; Ex. 20:25; Josh 8:3; 1 Kng. 6:7).

Look them up.

Jesus was definitly not starting a new religion. Neither was Jesus endeavoring to reform second temple Judaism. Nearly everything Jesus taught can be found in the OT going all the way back to Genesis 1:1 - far, far before second temple Judaism.

Norman70 · Jan 27, 2020

There are many "facts" (what do we mean by "fact", scientific fact, historical fact, biblical fact, etc.?) in the Bible. Blessings to you too.

timothyu · Jan 27, 2020

It is interesting so many wish to go in different directions, or politicize the activities of the Way, although the Way was following what Jesus taught in loving all as self, living a Parable of the Samaritan lifestyle. These were the ways of the Kingdom and to the Kingdom. Interesting today's world sees that thinking as being just as foreign as the people of the day back then did.

So if nothing has much changed, then how come the religion supposedly representing the teachings of Jesus has had little effect in that respect? Perhaps it went a different direction as mankind has always done since the Garden, preferring the teachings of Jesus model their thinking, instead of changing themselves to represent His.

People like to think their ways are justified without ever having to change anything that might effect their self interest. But God simply carries on promoting 'others' over 'self'. The narrow path listens. They are the ones within a minority within Christianity that help their fellow man without judgement, offering to stand by those who have become lost physically or morally, so that they may not feel alone while others judge or shame them.

Norman70 · Jan 27, 2020

I have only just noticed that rather surprisingly this thread is in the Creation and Theistic Evolution Forum. Teilhard de Chardin spent most of his life working on this, which for me establishes with Christian Identity and Direction.
He saw evolution moving from the geosphere, then through the biosphere towards a noosphere (not his word), culminating in the Omega, the Second Coming of Christ. The noosphere would be a universal joining of minds under the authority of his God (he was a Roman Catholic priest), anticipating perhaps the World Wide Web.
I trust that addresses the title of this thread.

timothyu · Jan 27, 2020

Norman70 said:
I trust that addresses the title of this thread.

Providing it acknowledges that there are always two directions (and usually opposing). Hence the upside down Kingdom vs the world man has made in our image. The governance of God vs the governance of mankind.

Norman70 · Jan 27, 2020

Teilhard's writings are not easy to understand, and have often been criticised for just being verbose nonsense. I like his ideas because they accept the scientific evidence for the theory of evolution, science being a gift of God, and his anticipation of a universal drawing together of that unique characteristic of the human species: intelligence.
His main problem was never fully addressing the problem of evil, perhaps he might have said more about this but his death intervened. We are here addressing it now, and will have to continue to do so until the Second Coming, or our own intervening death.

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