Christan or Secular Band

[AVBunyan]

1. (Jesus wouldn't sing about himself, that just wouldn't be humble)
Can I see it, you bet I can!
2. I think we addressed the points we disagree on in the first half of our posts
3. Bet you thought I had given up the debate, not a chance...
4. It is good to fellowship with a brother that does not offer condemnation when we disagree, it has been a blessing for sure. I look forward to your response.

1. I liked your lineuup - I could see them with horns and haveing a grand time (you know it is coming) as long as it doesn't cross the line which I don't see them doing anyway -In my scenario I was trying to show that some of the "hard and heavy" CCM they wouldnt play. Also, maybe the Lord would sing about himself - he wrote a whole book about Himself and a bunch of Psalms - and Jesus did sing some Psalms at the his last supper - just a thought - but I see what you were saying - dont' have a major problem with it - you are probably right.

2. You are right - I feel we have covered what we set out to do - I think the forum is ready for us to move on

.

3. I know you enough now that you will hang on like a bull dog - and that is good.

4. I feel the same way - it has been one of my enjoyable chats - I never felt you were going to be smart-mouthed or "shoot from the hip" just to shoot. You made your stand and presented it in a systematic and logical approach.

With that I guess it is time to move on. By the way I just head a rumor that there is a bug out and all Linux servers are coming down at midnight tonight

May God bless!

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

It's funny you bring up POD, they publically claim they are not a Christian band now. This alone would make me not want to listen to their music.

Define "christian" band.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

Lets check out POD for a second:

Take me to the promised land.
Where I and I is free,
Jah set my mind my mind at ease. . .
Stick to the track and don't be trapped by Babylon.. . .
Set your eyes to Zion
Jah Jah people ride on

That is directly from a POD song and is by no means Christian, it is straight up rastafarian. I and I is a rasta phrase and Jah is how the rastas reference their god. I and I is a reflection of their belief that their God is in everyone, the oneness of two people What in the world is a Christian bad doing singing about rasta doctrine?

Some quotes for you:

WUV: We respect the man, but he never had a conversation with us. Just because P.O.D. are a spiritual band doesn’t mean we adhere to any one religion, and all kinds of people want to use us as a symbol for their thing. There’s a thousand different definitions of what a Christian is, but we don’t feel like there are any lines."

MC- Yeah, but we're not necessarily a Christian band. We are, to an extent, a rock band that loves God, and we're not ashamed of that."

Just a thought, if they say they aren't a Christian band then they probably aren't!

They are not rastifarian

Jah is the musical term for God, check your hebrew.

I and I is symbolic for himself and Christ inside him.

"MC- Yeah, but we're not necessarily a Christian band. We are, to an extent, a rock band that loves God, and we're not ashamed of that."

This right there which you posted controdicts your rastifarian theory.

"Just a thought, if they say they aren't a Christian band then they probably aren't!"
They are smart. If you were trying to present the gospel to unsaved people, which they are doing, despite what you think, would you straight up say that you area ahrdcore christian? They want to be judged by their actions, they are shwoing themselves the haerd way. It should be obvious to people that theya re christian and to me it is. They do not worry about being judged. They are doing God's work but theya re also not legalistic about either. They ahve thier own style and they don't want to be called a christian band. I love Jesus Christ with all my soul, but if I was in a bad like pOD I would be doing the exact same thing. POD is here for the unsaved, not the christians.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

POD cites Bob Marley as a main influence and then uses Jah and I and I in their music. That is rasta and there are no two ways about it. The Bible says that if you are ashamed of Christ then he will be ashamed of you. They are by no means a Christian band and shouldn't be presented as such. There is a lot more to them than the little I posted, like where WUV states that drugs and sex are not even issues. They say they don't even like the term Christian in and of itself. Why would they be ashamed to worship God and preach the Gospel if they were Christians. WUV also has stated that "everyone converts to Rastafarianism once in their life", he admits to using fould language and refuses to talk about hell. These are not the actions or statements of a God fearing man. As for the Hebrew Jah you are dead wrong, the Jews don't write any of the vowels in God's name so if he was using a Hebrew word it wouldn't have the "a" in it. He even states they don't adhere to one religion, did they miss Thou shall have no other Gods before me? They are not edifying to the body and are not a Christian band. Are they talented? Personally I think they have very little talent and would prefer to listen to cars crashing but I think most modern music is **** and some people obviously think they have talent so that is a matter of opinion. Whether or not they are Christian is not, they have stated that they are not a Christian band and don't adhere to one religion. Judging them by their words and actions they are probably not even Christians themselves.

The statement that they love God proving they are not rasta totally shows that you do not know what rasta is. Rastas believe in God and Jesus, they however believe that a man from Egypt was an incarnation of Jesus. A rastaman would of course say that he loved God.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

I believe that Jesus was incarnent to many people in the OLD testament, so what?


The teach love and God is Love. The teach salvation as wel.

As far as te sin in their life, can you throw a stone to say that you more righteous than them???

Get the truth about ANY band, christ ian or non.. see what sin they have in their life, they are only honest. Thats hard to find.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

They claim not to hold to one religion plain and simple. They claim drugs and sex are no big deal. They claim to not even want to be called Christians.

1. We worship the one true God
2. Drugs and sex are a big deal
3. Christians are not ashamed to be called what they are

Of course I am not without sin, none of us are. But you know what, I am not ashamed to proclaim my Lord and Saviour. They mention God in their songs but never once do they mention Jesus and his work on the cross. You cannot be saved without believing in Jesus. How are they getting the message out when they don't even talk about the message?

I am not judging them by my standards, I am looking at what they say and nothing more. I do not need to judge them, God will do that. We can look at their words and see that they are very likely not believers. They make a mockery of Christ with their image of him presented with dreadlocks, they call Christ a rebel and that could not be farther fromt he truth. Christ was the first man to ever follow the law completely, he was the opposite of a rebel, he was perfect. The Bible equates rebellion as something that needs to be driven out of a child and yet they are proud to be rebellious. This all makes no sense for a Christian. Just look at what they say, these are their own words and not something made up. They are the ones that say that they are not a Christian band and don't adhere to one religion. If you don't adhere to one religion then you are not a Christian that is pretty obvious.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

They claim not to hold to one religion plain and simple. They claim drugs and sex are no big deal. They claim to not even want to be called Christians.


Of course I am not without sin, none of us are. But you know what, I am not ashamed to proclaim my Lord and Saviour. They mention God in their songs but never once do they mention Jesus and his work on the cross. You cannot be saved without believing in Jesus. How are they getting the message out when they don't even talk about the message?

I am not judging them by my standards, I am looking at what they say and nothing more. I do not need to judge them, God will do that. We can look at their words and see that they are very likely not believers. They make a mockery of Christ with their image of him presented with dreadlocks, they call Christ a rebel and that could not be farther fromt he truth. Christ was the first man to ever follow the law completely, he was the opposite of a rebel, he was perfect. The Bible equates rebellion as something that needs to be driven out of a child and yet they are proud to be rebellious. This all makes no sense for a Christian. Just look at what they say, these are their own words and not something made up. They are the ones that say that they are not a Christian band and don't adhere to one religion. If you don't adhere to one religion then you are not a Christian that is pretty obvious.

I don't claim to havfe any "religion" either. God is not a religion, thats what they mean.

"1. We worship the one true God
2. Drugs and sex are a big deal
3. Christians are not ashamed to be called what they are"

1. So do they
2. Check it, were they speaking past or present? ; )
3. Niether are they, you can tell that by their lyrics.

Another thing is this: My info comes from sunny and yours comes from wuv.

I know sonny to be verys piritually mature, and wuv is more rebelious. Sonny is their "leader" if you want to call him that. Is spiritual maturity is the greatest of the 4 band members. Not to mention they kicked out Marcos because of all the drugs and partying he was doing, and they ended up getting the lead guitarist from living sacrifice, WHO IS ALSO A CHRISTIAN.

Traa is hardcore as well, but he keeps quit to the media for the most part.

Wuv is also Sonnys cousin, they've went through everything together, brew up in the ghetto of san diego. That relationship is God centered and SOnnys heart goes out to his cousin.

About religion, I confess to know religion. Religion is the quickest way to hell. It's technical and legalistic and too easy to get caught up in the traditions of religion. They hate it, as well as I do, as well as many others do as well. They worship God, they bare fruit (people becoming saved)

Look up the song preach. Look up Themessenjah, portrait, set your eyes to zion, even alive.

About them POSSIBLY being rasta. Even if they were rasta, do you think they would go to hell? Just people beleive different doctrines than us doesn't mean that they go to hell. They beleive Jesus Christ is thier lord and saviour, and just because they work out their salvation differently than you do, doesn't mean they aren't "christians" they are disciples of Christ and they are presenting the gospell to a generation of people the way they will understand. I am one of them people from that generation.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

I also just realized that my signature has POD lyrics in it... Just thought you might want to read through it. i can almost swear I've read the same thing in the bible... maybe thats a coincedence...

 

[Statikk HDM]

Christian Metal is not only crappy but an oxymoron. I think that Sifl and Olley nailed it on the head when they said that all good rock bands are from Hell. As a side note, I don't really think that P.O.D. is a Christian band, much less a good metal band.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

Christian Metal is not only crappy but an oxymoron. I think that Sifl and Olley nailed it on the head when they said that all good rock bands are from Hell. As a side note, I don't really think that P.O.D. is a Christian band, much less a good metal band.

Maybe thats because they aren't a metal band.. lol

They are Rock/ rap core.

How is a christian rock band a controdiction? Sorry, but life as a christian isn't peaceful and about picking daisys, it gets intense.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

It is obvious that you will not see the truth about them, I am very open minded for the most part but these guys are not teaching the Gospel. Gospel means truth and the truth is that Jesus said no man comes to the Father but by me. They don't mention Jesus in their music therefore no Gospel. There are some doctrinal points that don't matter at all for salvation but there are some that do. You are right about people not going to hell because they hold to different doctrines, to some degree. However the doctrine that Christ was God's son, died on the cross for our sins and rose again is one that has to be believed.

Religion is not church, religion is something that you do daily. You say organized religion is the quickest way to hell, that is the most false statement I have seen in a long time. The ministers that AV Bunyan mentioned in this thread were part of organized religion and they reached more souls than POD, you and me put together ever will. The Bible lays out organization for the church and that is just simple fact. Organized religion is not the quickest way to hell not by a long shot.

There are plenty of resources out there that break apart their music and their message and show it for what it is. If you don't want to look then that is your deal. But you are not arguing with all of the information and cannot explain away their statements that they don't even like to be call Christians. I have given you enough information that you should at least have an interest in looking around and seeing if what I say may be true. I don't blindly follow anything except the word of God, all men are fallible and you are blind to this band's own words. I have nothing else to say except that I will pray for you and hope that God shows you the light.

I never said that you shouldn't listen to the band, just that they weren't a Christian band. I would be loathe to tell anyone not to listen to music. Why defend them when their statements are so obvious? It makes no sense, they have said what they said and no doubt meant it.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

You have shown me nothing except for the fact you knwo nothing about them.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

You have shown me nothing except for the fact you knwo nothing about them.

it's obvious we're not going to agree, but oh well. I understand where you are coming from, I mean don't get me wrong, I just hing there is more to them that you just don't see... I can see the connectiont hey are making, others can to. I respect what you said about me lsitening to it, so I give you the same respect in return, but then again, whoc can really judge the heart of someone? The only way is by the fruit they bare, and if they ahve lead even one person to christ, then that is plenty of reason for me.

Have a good day flesh.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

ANother thing before I break for lunch...

you stated that POD doesn't mention or preach Jesus Christ... well here ya go.


Portrait
P.O.D. - Satellite

You're not who they say you are
They made you the enemy
(CHRIST-Jah flesh; CHRIST-Light within; CHRIST- Beginning and the end)
Taken something so beautiful
Painted a new picture that makes me sick
(CHRIST-Witness; CHRIST-Living one; CHRIST-First and the last)
Feed our minds confusion
Sweeten the taste of pollution.
(CHRIST-Word life; CHRIST-Resurrect; CHRIST-Everlasting Jah)

chorus:
Some people call you father
Maybe you could set me free
These people hate each other
But you've always been there for me

I refuse to be like you
Without life, caving in
(CHRIST-Jah flesh; CHRIST-Light within; CHRIST- Beginning and the end)
I surrender, giving up all that is me
Yielding to you
(CHRIST-Witness; CHRIST-Living one; CHRIST-First and the last)
Shape me in my brokeness
Empower me forever
(CHRIST-Word life; CHRIST-Resurrect; CHRIST-Everlasting Jah)

chorus

outro:
I know you will complete this work started in me
I need you more than ever now that I know who you are
I know you will complete this work started in me
I need you more than ever now that I've come so far.


---------------

Christ is mentioned 24 times in this song.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Well here is the problem with that. Check it out, Jah is not Hebrew. Rasta is the only religion that uses Jah as a name for God. And they believe that their man Haile Selassie is Christ, the incarnation of God. I have PMd you because this has gone on really too long in this forum and we have moved away from the original intent for the thread. I am happy to continue dicsussing but think that we should let this thread stand on it's own and maybe get back to it's original topic

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

Well here is the problem with that. Check it out, Jah is not Hebrew. Rasta is the only religion that uses Jah as a name for God. And they believe that their man Haile Selassie is Christ, the incarnation of God. I have PMd you because this has gone on really too long in this forum and we have moved away from the original intent for the thread. I am happy to continue dicsussing but think that we should let this thread stand on it's own and maybe get back to it's original topic

God is refered to Jah in psalms.

I don't have the scripture, and I am in Army class right now, but i will see what I can do to ge it for you.
POD are musicians and Jah the name of God when refering him to music or poetry, hence they refer to him as Jah.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

Psalms 68:4 check it out.

(KJV)

 

[Statikk HDM]

O.K, maybe P.O.D. is a tad bit Christian, but that doesn't mean they're all that freaking great. Also, them playing at an Ozzfest concert does seem pretty bizarre. And I know they are not metal, they're this poser rap/rock, radio-friendly, pseudo xtian band that sucks any hardcore metal band's dick.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

thats your opinion

Besides, they play at ozz fest for a copuple reasons.. one they like it, and I can't blame them cause there are some good bands there.
2nd. The people there need to hear about what they sing/preach just as much as any other unsaved person. Do you think that just because the people there are more extreme they should be treated differently when it comes to walking intoa doors of a church?

 

[Hands&Feet]

I don't know anything about POD, but I can understand if they dropped the CHristian label and identity. Any sincere CHristain band should leave the hypocrisy of the Christian record labels. It has gotten out of hand. I am a writer, but I have found a much greater witness by publishing through secular publishers. People find faith in Jesus all the way through the process. As a musician, our band of Christians has opted to perform wherever the doors are open. Our mission is to take God's compassion and unconditional love to those in need of it wherever that is. As a solely Christian band playing Christian venues all we did was struggle with whether or not we aligned with a church's doctrinal statement or not. It got ridiculous. Now people accept us for who we are and for the inspiration and hope we extend. It is amazing how much more the unchurched are open to Jesus with this appoach.