Christadelphian Beliefs about the Devil

[KristyAnne]

I was looking around the Christadelphian site and was interested to read that they don't believe in the devil.

3.The biblical labels 'satan' and 'devil', are in fact common terms meaning a generic 'enemy', 'adversary' or 'slanderer'. Any basic concordance study will reveal that these terms are by no means consistently used to denote a particular person or being, rather in each appearance they must be interpreted through their context. Their use ranges from describing the angel God sent to oppose Balaam in Numbers 22, to the judaizers in Paul's letters, to the adversaries raised up by God against Solomon in his old age, to God himself in I Chron. 21. Check it out for yourself - the terms refer simply to opposition, even holy opposition against evil.

4.The passages that have been used historically to support the traditional image of the devil - Is. 14, Ez. 28, Rev. 12 - are all clear examples of wresting scripture to support a pre-conceived notion. Each of these passages (and a few others) either:
-clearly identifies the person being referred to as someone human and known in their time,
-or is prophetic and highly metaphoric, and can't be taken literally without rendering it's context meaningless,
-or both.

No concise Biblical passage even begins to provide a description and explanation of the traditional devil, where he came from, what he is, and why he is allowed to exist. Only when the Bible is read with the notion already in our minds does it even begin to lend itself to supporting the idea, and only if you are very willing to be persuaded.

Thoughts?

Kristy

 

[Havahope]

I was looking around the Christadelphian site and was interested to read that they don't believe in the devil.




Thoughts?

Kristy

Bless those Christadelphians! (whoever they are). They are right about at least this one.

 

[MormonFriend]

I was looking around the Christadelphian site and was interested to read that they don't believe in the devil.



Thoughts?

Kristy

They perhaps did not consider this one.

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
(Old Testament | Isaiah 14:12 - 16)

 

[Havahope]

They perhaps did not consider this one.

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
(Old Testament | Isaiah14:12 - 16)

Isaiah 14:12. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13. For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16. They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

 

[EchoPneuma]

Is that not a prophecy concerning the King of Tyre? How then can it be about Satan? Unless you believe they are one and the same?

 

[Swart]

Is that not a prophecy concerning the King of Tyre? How then can it be about Satan? Unless you believe they are one and the same?

Hebraic Dualism.

 

[EchoPneuma]

Hebraic Dualism.

Why do you say that? It's very clearly about the King of Tyre. Are you saying that he and Satan are the same?

It doesn't even mention Satan in that passage. It says "Lucifer"...which means "light". This passage clearly says that it is talking about a MAN.

16 Those who see you stare at you,
they ponder your fate:
"Is this the man who shook the earth
and made kingdoms tremble,
17 the man who made the world a desert,
who overthrew its cities
and would not let his captives go home?"

Can Satan be cast out of his tomb?

19 But you are cast out of your tomb
like a rejected branch;
you are covered with the slain,
with those pierced by the sword,

Did Satan have a land and people?

20 you will not join them in burial,
for you have destroyed your land
and killed your people.

This is clearly talking about a MAN....the King of Tyre. It is hyperbole. That some people want to INTERPRET this as being about Satan is, of course, their perogative. But I don't see it.

Much more, I would ask who it was that tempted Jesus out in the desert for 40 days? Who was it that entered into Judas when he went to betray Jesus? THese are much more clearer passages about Satan than the one in Isa.

 

[Blackmarch]

I was looking around the Christadelphian site and was interested to read that they don't believe in the devil.


Thoughts?

Kristy

It's a good thought.. dunno for sure. although there is probably some accuracy in such; we know the devil certainly does not work alone... so there is probably some truth to such referring to more than one enemy... but such things like slanderer seem to be more individual specific.

 

[gort]

Hebraic Dualism.

I agree, and it's quite clear.

 

[Havahope]

Much more, I would ask who it was that tempted Jesus out in the desert for 40 days? Who was it that entered into Judas when he went to betray Jesus? THese are much more clearer passages about Satan than the one in Isa.

I don't believe it was "who" tempted Jesus , but rather "what" tempted Jesus. Jesus was a man; flesh and blood as we are. He had all of the same desires as we have.
Heb. 4: 15. "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin."

It was Jesus' natural desires of His flesh which tried Him in the desert.
And so it was with Judas also. The $ sign -
1 Tim. 6: 1. "Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.
2. And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.
3. If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4. He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5. Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
6. But godliness with contentment is great gain.
7. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8. And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
9. But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."

I believe that the devil or satan is a personification of mankind's natural or fleshly desires.

"Man is his own worst enemy."

 

[EchoPneuma]

I don't believe it was "who" tempted Jesus , but rather "what" tempted Jesus. Jesus was a man; flesh and blood as we are. He had all of the same desires as we have.
Heb. 4: 15. "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin."

It was Jesus' natural desires of His flesh which tried Him in the desert.
And so it was with Judas also. The $ sign -
1 Tim. 6: 1. "Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.
2. And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.
3. If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4. He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5. Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
6. But godliness with contentment is great gain.
7. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8. And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
9. But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."

I believe that the devil or satan is a personification of mankind's natural or fleshly desires.

"Man is his own worst enemy."

I agree that man wars within himself with his own fleshly desires and sin nature. But I wouldn't go so far as to say that Satan is simply the personification of that struggle. Some references to Satan just don't fit. Like where it says that Satan ENTERED IN to Judas before he went and betrayed Jesus. If Satan was just Judas' own inner evil, then it wouldn't say that Satan had to ENTER IN to Judas.

Also, that Satan prowls around like a roaring lion seeking whom he can devour. How does that correspond to our own fleshly desires? They don't "prowl around"....they are inside us.

Also, there Jesus says:

John 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Obviously Jesus is talking about Satan here....and He says that the "prince of this world" is CAST OUT. So our evil desires and old sin nature is cast out? Cast out of what?

So, I don't believe Satan is the personification of the evil inside man. Satan is an evil being....an "adversary".

 

[Havahope]

I agree that man wars within himself with his own fleshly desires and sin nature. But I wouldn't go so far as to say that Satan is simply the personification of that struggle. Some references to Satan just don't fit. Like where it says that Satan ENTERED IN to Judas before he went and betrayed Jesus. If Satan was just Judas' own inner evil, then it wouldn't say that Satan had to ENTER IN to Judas.

Also, that Satan prowls around like a roaring lion seeking whom he can devour. How does that correspond to our own fleshly desires? They don't "prowl around"....they are inside us.

Also, there Jesus says:

John 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Obviously Jesus is talking about Satan here....and He says that the "prince of this world" is CAST OUT. So our evil desires and old sin nature is cast out? Cast out of what?

So, I don't believe Satan is the personification of the evil inside man. Satan is an evil being....an "adversary".

So, scripturally speaking, where do you believe this evil being came from?

 

[Soul Searcher]

16. They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;[/quote]

Good catch

That one had slipped my notice. It is rather clear to me though that the word Lucifier here is just a bad translation. That it is not a proper noun, no tthe name of anyone especially not satan and that this story has nothing to do with a fallen angel but rather is about a king and his fall from power.

 

[EchoPneuma]

So, scripturally speaking, where do you believe this evil being came from?

Hmmm. Well, I've been thinking about that. Whoever or WHATEVER Satan is, he would, of course, have to be a creation of God. Throughout the bible he is referred to as an "adversary", "accuser", "tempter", "destroyer", "liar", "deceiver" etc. Jesus said he was a "murderer" from the beginning....and told the Pharisees that their father was the Devil.

Many times it would seem like he is the personification of evil or our own carnal nature. But other times it just doesn't fit. Like in the instances I showed you above. So I think he is more than that. I do believe he is a real spiritual entity that is the adversary of good....and of those who would seek to do good.

Also, if you look in the OT, God uses evil spirits to do His bidding and the bible actually say that they come from the Lord.

1. 1 Samuel 16:14
[ David in Saul's Service ] Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD tormented him.

2. 1 Samuel 18:10
The next day an evil spirit from God came forcefully upon Saul. He was prophesying in his house, while David was playing the harp, as he usually did. Saul had a spear in his hand

3. 1 Samuel 19:9
But an evil spirit from the LORD came upon Saul as he was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand. While David was playing the harp,

4. Judges 9:23
God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the citizens of Shechem, who acted treacherously against Abimelech.

But Jesus did say that NOW the prince of this world is CAST OUT.....and He said that approx. 2000 yrs ago. Whoever or whatever he is....he is a defeated foe and Jesus has triumphed over him by the cross. I believe he now resides in the "lake of fire" (whatever that is) because Jesus cast him out, defeated him, and destroyed him and his work.

Hebrews 2:14
Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—

So Jesus destroyed the devil by His death.

1 John 3:8
He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work.

Jesus has destroyed the devil's work.

Revelation 20:10
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

He was cast out. Just like Jesus said. Out of the world and into the LOF. That happened a long time ago.

The evil in the world now it attributed to....well....let's let Jesus tell us from Mark 7....

20He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' 21For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.' "

Under the new covenant....the only enemy we have is our own animal nature that we are told to "crucify". The battle now takes place WITHIN....

James 4:1
[ Submit Yourselves to God ] What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don't they come from your desires that battle within you?

1 Peter 2:11
Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul.

Galatians 5:17
For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want...

That's what I believe....FWIW.

 

[gort]

Hmmm. Well, I've been thinking about that. Whoever or WHATEVER Satan is, he would, of course, have to be a creation of God. Throughout the bible he is referred to as an "adversary", "accuser", "tempter", "destroyer", "liar", "deceiver" etc. Jesus said he was a "murderer" from the beginning....and told the Pharisees that their father was the Devil.

Many times it would seem like he is the personification of evil or our own carnal nature. But other times it just doesn't fit. Like in the instances I showed you above. So I think he is more than that. I do believe he is a real spiritual entity that is the adversary of good....and of those who would seek to do good.

Also, if you look in the OT, God uses evil spirits to do His bidding and the bible actually say that they come from the Lord.

1. 1 Samuel 16:14
[ David in Saul's Service ] Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD tormented him.

2. 1 Samuel 18:10
The next day an evil spirit from God came forcefully upon Saul. He was prophesying in his house, while David was playing the harp, as he usually did. Saul had a spear in his hand

3. 1 Samuel 19:9
But an evil spirit from the LORD came upon Saul as he was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand. While David was playing the harp,

4. Judges 9:23
God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the citizens of Shechem, who acted treacherously against Abimelech.

But Jesus did say that NOW the prince of this world is CAST OUT.....and He said that approx. 2000 yrs ago. Whoever or whatever he is....he is a defeated foe and Jesus has triumphed over him by the cross. I believe he now resides in the "lake of fire" (whatever that is) because Jesus cast him out, defeated him, and destroyed him and his work.

Hebrews 2:14
Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—

So Jesus destroyed the devil by His death.

1 John 3:8
He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work.

Jesus has destroyed the devil's work.

Revelation 20:10
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

He was cast out. Just like Jesus said. Out of the world and into the LOF. That happened a long time ago.

The evil in the world now it attributed to....well....let's let Jesus tell us from Mark 7....

20He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' 21For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.' "

Under the new covenant....the only enemy we have is our own animal nature that we are told to "crucify". The battle now takes place WITHIN....

James 4:1
[ Submit Yourselves to God ] What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don't they come from your desires that battle within you?

1 Peter 2:11
Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul.

Galatians 5:17
For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want...

That's what I believe....FWIW.

As there is no darkness in God, neither does evil or evil spirits come from God.

The evil spirits came upon Saul in the effect that God is the One who allowed the evil spirit to torment Saul. God lowered Sauls hedge.

In Isaiah, it is a dualism of speach. While these are descriptions in regards to the King of Tyre it is also a description of Lucifer, created perfect, a guardian of the HOly mountain. A cherub. Some of these descriptions could never fit a king of Tyre.

Research into the Kings of Tyre would help understanding, particularly in that these kings considered themselves gods above all. And they were nothing short of evil.

<><

 

[EchoPneuma]

As there is no darkness in God, neither does evil or evil spirits come from God.

The evil spirits came upon Saul in the effect that God is the One who allowed the evil spirit to torment Saul. God lowered Sauls hedge.

In Isaiah, it is a dualism of speach. While these are descriptions in regards to the King of Tyre it is also a description of Lucifer, created perfect, a guardian of the HOly mountain. A cherub. Some of these descriptions could never fit a king of Tyre.

Research into the Kings of Tyre would help understanding, particularly in that these kings considered themselves gods above all. And they were nothing short of evil.

<><

Daneel,
It SAYS that the evil spirit CAME FROM GOD, you just don't want to believe it, so you say it means something else. That's fine. It's your interpretation....but it's not what it SAYS. I'm going with what it clearly SAYS. It says nothing in those scriptures about God only ALLOWING the evil spirit to torment Saul....it says that it CAME FROM GOD. You are adding your own words to scripture in order to be comfortable with it.

Why not let scripture change YOU , instead of you changing scripture?

 

[gort]

Daneel,
It SAYS that the evil spirit CAME FROM GOD, you just don't want to believe it, so you say it means something else. That's fine. It's your interpretation....but it's not what it SAYS. I'm going with what it clearly SAYS. It says nothing in those scriptures about God only ALLOWING the evil spirit to torment Saul....it says that it CAME FROM GOD. You are adding your own words to scripture in order to be comfortable with it.

Why not let scripture change YOU , instead of you changing scripture?

You now have a quandry to reconcile. There are more like this, but I only need one.

1Jo 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Either G-d has darkness and the evil spirit comes directly from Him, or He, being all powerful, has allowed an evil spirit to wreak havoc.

Job is an excellant example of hedges being lowered.

<><

 

[Swart]

Why do you say that? It's very clearly about the King of Tyre. Are you saying that he and Satan are the same?

I'm not an expert on Hebrew, so I suggest you look up the writings of one and read some commentaries on scripture.

Pretty much ALL of Isaiah that is written in Hebrew Prophetic Tense (which is rendered past tense in English) exhibits Hebraic Dualism. The authour (in this case Isaiah) writes about contemporary events in Prophetic Tense. To the Hebrew reader, it is immediately obvious that what they are reading is a prophecy that is a type of a current event.

These days, not all of the current events of Isaiah's day were known, so we are only aware of the prophetic ones. Remember that Isaiah is nearly ALWAYS speaking messianically - he is referring to the coming of the Lord. In many cases, there is also a 'double dualism' taking place where Isaiah is speaking of both the first and second comings of Jesus Christ.

It is very difficult to read Isaiah from an intellectual standpoint. It was given by the Holy Ghost and can only be interpreted in this fashion. I get most out of Isaiah by reading it quickly and allowing the Holy Ghost to teach me as I am ready. Read in this way, it allows certain parts to leap out at you and impress you. I have read Isaiah approximately a dozen times and each time I get something new. It is one of my favourite books of scripture.

I'm not saying we shouldn't study Isaiah intellectually, rather that we shouldn't supplant a spiritual study with an intellectual study.

 

[EchoPneuma]

You now have a quandry to reconcile. There are more like this, but I only need one.

1Jo 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Either G-d has darkness and the evil spirit comes directly from Him, or He, being all powerful, has allowed an evil spirit to wreak havoc.

Job is an excellant example of hedges being lowered.

<><

My my my....you do have it all figured out don't you? Maybe YOUR perception of good and evil is not correct. Have you EVER considered that? Maybe what YOU consider evil is NOT what God considers evil. Is darkness the same as evil to God? In God is no DARKNESS. That scripture says nothing of evil.

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

This is exactly the same Hebrew word ("ra") that is used when referring to the "evil" spirits from the Lord. God says He CREATES it. It's also the same Hebrew word that is used in these verses....

Genesis 2:9

9And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and EVIL

Deut 22:21-24


21 she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you.
22 If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel. 23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

Psalm 34:16

16 the face of the LORD is against those who do evil, to cut off the memory of them from the earth.

Judges 2:11

Then the Israelites did evil in the eyes of the LORD and served the Baals.

These are ALL the word "RA" in Hebrew. The same word that is used in Isa. 45:7 where it says that "God CREATES evil". Same word that is used referring to the "evil" spirits FROM GOD.

THe bible says what it says Daneel. It makes you uncomfortable...so you seek to change what it says to suit your own beliefs. I think you perhaps need to change your beliefs to line up with what the bible says....and consider that you have a wrong perception of good and evil and look at it from God's perspective.

 

[gort]

My my my....you do have it all figured out don't you? Maybe YOUR perception of good and evil is not correct. Have you EVER considered that? Maybe what YOU consider evil is NOT what God considers evil. Is darkness the same as evil to God? In God is no DARKNESS. That scripture says nothing of evil.

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

This is exactly the same Hebrew word ("ra") that is used when referring to the "evil" spirits from the Lord. God says He CREATES it. It's also the same Hebrew word that is used in these verses....

Genesis 2:9

9And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and EVIL

Deut 22:21-24


21 she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you.
22 If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel. 23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death&#8212;the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

Psalm 34:16

16 the face of the LORD is against those who do evil, to cut off the memory of them from the earth.

Judges 2:11

Then the Israelites did evil in the eyes of the LORD and served the Baals.

These are ALL the word "RA" in Hebrew. The same word that is used in Isa. 45:7 where it says that "God CREATES evil". Same word that is used referring to the "evil" spirits FROM GOD.

THe bible says what it says Daneel. It makes you uncomfortable...so you seek to change what it says to suit your own beliefs. I think you perhaps need to change your beliefs to line up with what the bible says....and consider that you have a wrong perception of good and evil and look at it from God's perspective.

Why don't you stick with the text and show me how an evil SPIRIT comes directly from God, then I can bow down to your all knowing intellect and understanding of Scripture.

But please use proper exegesis and feel free to use the entire biblical writings to show me an evil spirit come from a Holy God of whom there is no darkness. The word darkness here is:

skotia {skot-ee'-ah}

Lexicon Results for skotia (Strong's 4653)
Greek for 4653

Pronunciation Guide
skotia {skot-ee'-ah}

TDNT Reference Root Word
TDNT - 7:423,1049 from 4655
Part of Speech
n f
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) darkness

2) the darkness due to want of light

3) metaph. used of ignorance of divine things, and its associated wickedness, and the resultant misery in hell

I have no problem understanding that God creates evil ( ra`).





ra` {rah}

1) bad, evil

a) bad, disagreeable, malignant

b) bad, unpleasant, evil (giving pain, unhappiness, misery)

c) evil, displeasing

d) bad (of its kind - land, water, etc)

e) bad (of value)


f) worse than, worst (comparison)

g) sad, unhappy

h) evil (hurtful)

i) bad, unkind (vicious in disposition)

j) bad, evil, wicked (ethically)

1) in general, of persons, of thoughts

2) deeds, actions



n m

2) evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity

a) evil, distress, adversity

b) evil, injury, wrong

c) evil (ethical)


But there shore ain't no evil spirits coming directly from God!



<><