Christ in the Cretaceous

[Kohelet]

A few weeks back, our pastor gave a sermon on the Power & Glory of God. In it he used the passage in Psalms 19 saying that the heavens are declaring the Glory of God. He supplemented it by showing a vast array of Hubble Space Telescope images, from nebulae to the Deep Field to the new awesome ultra Hi-Res photo of the Andromeda Galaxy. It is awe-inspiring to say the least, and does conjure up a sense of the Divine.

He then tied it up into John 1, saying that all things were created through Christ. While most went away firmly refreshed in faith and wonder in God, I was nonplussed. After much reflection I found out why...Christianity is much too small a worldview to contain the vastness of the natural world. The sense of immense awe & wonder instantly vanishes when I insert a theology that restricts itself to a tiny fraction of a moment in a tiny fraction of a land in an incalculably tiny portion of the Universe. Or in other words, I simply fail to find Christ in the Cretaceous.

We scoffed at Copernicus when he dared to suggest that the Earth was not the center of the Universe, but 500 years later we still really haven't gotten away from that philosophy. Yes we realize that technically the Earth revolves around Sol, but theologically we still hold that everything in the quintillions of suns & planets revolves around something that happened in a few hundred square miles. Given what we know about how the natural world works, there is almost certainly other life out there, potentially with their own moral dilemmas. How do you reconcile this paradox?

 

[graceandpeace]

Why do you think Christianity is only concerned with a "tiny portion of the universe?"

 

[Kohelet]

Why do you think Christianity is only concerned with a "tiny portion of the universe?"

Well because the Bible pretty well states it. Everything from infinity past to future centers around events that transpire in an impossibly small portion of time and space. Think about it...aside from the phrase "God created the heavens", the Universe has no bearing of any importance on any matters of truth and reality. What happens in the Vega star system stays in the Vega star system (terrible pun I know ). Even after judgment, Heaven itself comes down to Earth to set up a new Jerusalem where God Himself will reign. How much more Geocentric can you get?

 

[graceandpeace]

Well because the Bible pretty well states it. Everything from infinity past to future centers around events that transpire in an impossibly small portion of time and space. Think about it...aside from the phrase "God created the heavens", the Universe has no bearing of any importance on any matters of truth and reality. What happens in the Vega star system stays in the Vega star system (terrible pun I know ). Even after judgment, Heaven itself comes down to Earth to set up a new Jerusalem where God Himself will reign. How much more Geocentric can you get?

Traditionally, Christians have believed that God's redemption is for all things. It's not just about the redemption of the Earth, or of human beings, but literally the entire cosmos. So if there is other life "out there," redemption touches it as well.

The Kingdom of God is not a place per se that is going to float down from the sky - the texts referenced are apocalyptic, not a literal description. Rather, the Kingdom of God is the state of all things being set right & made whole, new. Christians are called to participate in this Kingdom here, now, & we await the time when it will be fully realized.

 

[Kohelet]

Traditionally, Christians have believed that God's redemption is for all things. It's not just about the redemption of the Earth, or of human beings, but literally the entire cosmos. So if there is other life "out there," redemption touches it as well.

The Kingdom of God is not a place per se that is going to float down from the sky - the texts referenced are apocalyptic, not a literal description. Rather, the Kingdom of God is the state of all things being set right & made whole, new. Christians are called to participate in this Kingdom here, now, & we await the time when it will be fully realized.

I guess I just don't see that anywhere in scripture. Creation is not redeemed by Christ's sacrifice, in fact it still suffers the pains of childbirth until now (Romans 8:22). I know that Revelation is apocalyptic, but it certainly states that the old Creation will be destroyed in the judgment...I see no redemption in that.

 

[talitha]

Christianity is not a tiny world view - it encompasses "all creation" - you quoted that verse. That means EVERYTHING. All matter. All souls. All spirits. Everything that exists was created by the Word of God.

 

[elopez]

How do you reconcile this paradox?

I do not think the paradox lies on the side of Christianity, rather with those who are making the exact argument you made:

Given what we know about how the natural world works, there is almost certainly other life out there,

This being the case, why haven't we found life yet? If there is such a high probability of extraterrestrial life, why is there such a lack of evidnece for such? This lead physicist Michael H. Hart and Enrico Fermi to raise the question "Where is everyone?" with the Fermi Paradox.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

A few weeks back, our pastor gave a sermon on the Power & Glory of God. In it he used the passage in Psalms 19 saying that the heavens are declaring the Glory of God. He supplemented it by showing a vast array of Hubble Space Telescope images, from nebulae to the Deep Field to the new awesome ultra Hi-Res photo of the Andromeda Galaxy. It is awe-inspiring to say the least, and does conjure up a sense of the Divine.

He then tied it up into John 1, saying that all things were created through Christ. While most went away firmly refreshed in faith and wonder in God, I was nonplussed. After much reflection I found out why...Christianity is much too small a worldview to contain the vastness of the natural world. The sense of immense awe & wonder instantly vanishes when I insert a theology that restricts itself to a tiny fraction of a moment in a tiny fraction of a land in an incalculably tiny portion of the Universe. Or in other words, I simply fail to find Christ in the Cretaceous.

We scoffed at Copernicus when he dared to suggest that the Earth was not the center of the Universe, but 500 years later we still really haven't gotten away from that philosophy. Yes we realize that technically the Earth revolves around Sol, but theologically we still hold that everything in the quintillions of suns & planets revolves around something that happened in a few hundred square miles. Given what we know about how the natural world works, there is almost certainly other life out there, potentially with their own moral dilemmas. How do you reconcile this paradox?

Actually, Christianity is adequate, but its main contents are 'wrapped' in an old world paradigm. There are Christians, scholars even, who are just fine with this and see no need to throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[graceandpeace]

I guess I just don't see that anywhere in scripture. Creation is not redeemed by Christ's sacrifice, in fact it still suffers the pains of childbirth until now (Romans 8:22). I know that Revelation is apocalyptic, but it certainly states that the old Creation will be destroyed in the judgment...I see no redemption in that.

Back up a few verses...

For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the children of God; for the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and will obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. -Romans 8:19-21 (NRSV)

In other words, creation also awaits redemption.

 

[bling]

A few weeks back, our pastor gave a sermon on the Power & Glory of God. In it he used the passage in Psalms 19 saying that the heavens are declaring the Glory of God. He supplemented it by showing a vast array of Hubble Space Telescope images, from nebulae to the Deep Field to the new awesome ultra Hi-Res photo of the Andromeda Galaxy. It is awe-inspiring to say the least, and does conjure up a sense of the Divine.

He then tied it up into John 1, saying that all things were created through Christ. While most went away firmly refreshed in faith and wonder in God, I was nonplussed. After much reflection I found out why...Christianity is much too small a worldview to contain the vastness of the natural world. The sense of immense awe & wonder instantly vanishes when I insert a theology that restricts itself to a tiny fraction of a moment in a tiny fraction of a land in an incalculably tiny portion of the Universe. Or in other words, I simply fail to find Christ in the Cretaceous.

We scoffed at Copernicus when he dared to suggest that the Earth was not the center of the Universe, but 500 years later we still really haven't gotten away from that philosophy. Yes we realize that technically the Earth revolves around Sol, but theologically we still hold that everything in the quintillions of suns & planets revolves around something that happened in a few hundred square miles. Given what we know about how the natural world works, there is almost certainly other life out there, potentially with their own moral dilemmas. How do you reconcile this paradox?

As a scientist, I can tell you the more we know about this universe the greater appreciation we have for the fact that life could ever start at all anywhere in this universe. The numbers are just not there for a random beginning and so we fall back on the idea of an infinite number of universes to wind up with life in one universe, but what logic is behind “nothing” forming universes?

Is it any harder to reason an eternal intelligent being creating intelligent beings than it is to; reason pure energy/matter alone creating intelligent beings and or something came from nothing?

There are good logical reasons why this whole universe would be the way it is in order to help willing individuals on earth accept God’s help (fulfill their earthly objective).

This universe and everything that has happened, is happening and will happen is to help willing individuals fulfill their earthly objective.

An infinitely powerful Being can create as many universe for as many beings as Deity wants, so yes this whole universe might have been made exclusively for those few on planet earth children of God that will fulfill their objective.