Chit Chat (8)

[birdie29]

I just browsed through the suicide and depression thread. I don't want prayer (necessarily), but I wonder if anyone (besides me) thinks that the large numbers of suicide and depressed in our society has anything to do with our refusal to adhere (almost worldwide) to honoring the Sabbath. Just one day off of work a week. A day that used to be spent with family and friends having bbq's. We are so success driven and so eager to be impressed by others that we downgrade and derail anyone who doesn't meet our model for success. We want not only to be admired but we want to associate with people that the world admires. That's a lot of pressure. It's no wonder to me that people get all caught up in feelings of depression. And then, the drug companies are so very powerful. They get on tv and advertise drugs that haven't been fully tested. It occured to me a few days ago that they are testing them on us. They make sure there are no immediate dangers and then release the drug. So many anti-depressants and mood enhancers have been taken off the market for actually harming and sometimes killing the people who they were supposed to be helping.

for instance, My mother committed suicide a few years back. I have gained weight. When the doctor's asked me about the weight gain I told them(two different doctors) about what my mom had done and that it had affected me in many ways. one of them was depression and lack of motivation (all involved in the grieving process I might add) First thing both doctors did was offer me anti-depressants. I am isolated (from episodes with depression and too much work and worry).. but taking a drug is not the answer to that, I'm certain. I know several people on anti-depressants. What I have observed is that if they are not in counseling, those anti-depressants only serve to make them 'feel" better about their bad choices.. they don't prevent them from making them. Sometimes they even make them sick on top of it. I have noticed that many times we bring depression on ourselves by making selfish choices. My mother for one. I miss her terribly and I'm so very sad when I think of how horrible she must have felt when she sat alone in a chair and took her life without anyone there. sooo isolated. However, that doesn't mean that her life could not have been spared had she: 1. not been on two different types of anti-depressant drugs prescribed by two different doctors. 2. not been so stubborn and selfish with some of the decisions she made. She couldn't have her way. My father was abusive and would not love her and she could not force or will him to. So, in sadness because she could not bend his will and because (I suppose) she had been broken hearted and humiliated, she died by her own hand.

Any thoughts???

 

[angelwind]

That is a lot to think about birdie29, I will need time to think...

I know the dangers of antidepressants, some made me suicidal...but I do take a small dose of Prozac every day...it seems my brain needs help. Just like my Thyroid needs help.

I have a close friend who lost people close to her by suicide...what a horrible experience for those left behind. I don't have any quick word of comfort...just read once that Jesus died for "every" sin for His own sheep...even suicide.

 

[angelwind]

Hey Shirley,
I'm not married. I wish I were sometimes. But.... single for 30 years does not make a good wife. LOL.. I never married after my marriage ended with my son's father. Can't imagine the happily married life. At 4:30 am I am sound asleep. Actually it is more like a coma. Glad you replied.

I have had some very hard knocks in my marriage...but I am glad to still be married to this man...I can tell the Lord has helped us both a lot and continues to help us.

 

[davedajobauk]

I 'once' spent four months on PAROXETINE [SeroXAT]
The doctor told me that it had been accused of leading some persons to commit suicide
But, he was correct, in suggesting that this was not likely in my [then] circumstances

Wayyyyy!!! It gave me 'room', not to get caught up in
the whirlpool of, blame versus responsibility and, didn't handicap me too severely

Doctors, are not masters of their trade and often prescribe
what the drug companies advise...
relying then, upon the drug companies [Mimm's Directory] for information, regarding 'contra-indications'

It is just so-easy, to 'tar all with the same brush' and perhaps wrongly
_when we 'deal' opinion, with limited-information




dave

 

[birdie29]

Angelwind, I don't think a quick word of comfort goes well here... I'm certainly not suggesting that you stop taking your antidepressant. I would never try and inflict my own beliefs on another... especially when the consequences could be life threatening. However, I've thought and thought about anti-depressants and I just don't like them. I see the commercials on TV and I get upset. I myself probably could do with some counseling or therapy, but time and money just don't permit that. It seems that antidepressants are easier to come by and cheaper. That bothers me. I will admit that I struggle with depression but some of it is because I have made some really stupid choices. Now I face consequences. It would take an act of congress to make me take a drug that isn't deemed as temporary. I've taken things for acne and i've had antibiotics. But, not much stronger than that. i had surgery some time back on my foot and on my shoulder. The doctor prescribed pain killers that put me on an emotional high and then made me crash. I stopped taking them on about the third day because I found them dangerous (for me). I caught myself wanting a pill, not because of pain but because the one I had taken before had worn off. I felt euphoric shortly after taking the pill.

After my mom died (three or four years ago) (time has become a blur for me.. lol), I used aroma therapy of my own to deal with it. Lavender scents around the house and in the bath, and "sleepy-time extra" herbal tea at night. I still use the sleepy-time tea on occasion and I am wholeheartedly convinced it helps me to get a good nights sleep. However, I refused the doctor's offer to put me on anything stronger.

I have a friend who has spent most of her life on anti-depressants and she has had a stroke at age 35.. prior to that she made some choices that were questionable and I belief a little dumb. Now she is dealing with the choices and the stroke. I think that in the long run the anti-depressants did more harm than good.

My mother took valium most of her life. then after my dad rejected her she started taking other things. (not sure what)...

And yes, suicide does disrupt a family. It sometimes causes more suicide. It contributes to other mental illnesses, breaks down relationships that were already struggling, and forces people to rationalize away the cause. My mother's was a copycat. Her sister had taken her life (for many of the same reasons) some years earlier. My mom had guilt, pain.. she dealt with it often in very unhealthy ways. She wasn't much of a drinker until the last year of her life. She was looking for relief I believe. She was stubborn and couldn't be anyone other than the one in charge. As a consequence she had no help. My dad is crewel (still). On his third or fourth girlfriend since the incident. I don't really know the lady too much but I was told that she left an abusive relationship to be with my dad, which to me is a red flag that he is probably going to abuse her. (she probably has jumped out of the frying pan right into the fire).. I doubt seriously he is the savior she may believes him to be. However, they seem to be living the good life. My mom and dad were to divorce before she died. Now he doesn't have to split his money with anyone. He has a home in florida and a rather large fifth wheel camper. They spend a few months a year in florida and travel the rest. He and I don't really spend any time together. it always goes bad so we have just parted ways. I love him because he's my dad but i really don't like him much. And, I certainly don't trust him with my emotions right now... He can be crewel and he is manipulative. He's old school so in his eyes it's all about him, simply because he's the man of the house. We (us women) simply exist for him. I've been single for a very long time. So, me serving a man or sacrificing my life or happiness for one isn't something I do too willingly. (I really am sorry about that if that offends someone.. I'm so afraid my beliefs might....????) I may tend to be a tad self centered, but I do not want to inflict harm. I hope that made since to someone... ((????)).
Hugs angelwind.. I would never want you to do something just because I said so...

 

[birdie29]

Dave, opinion of what.. the doctor's or mine or both? I think that some drugs could be used to help. I certainly could have used something to calm me after tramatic events. I remember my mom giving me half of one of her valium after I caught my husband (now ex-husband) cheating. It helped me get to sleep that night. I was a mess. However, lifelong dependency on the drug would have been tragic (in my opinion anyway). I guess we agree (maybe) that doctors often over-prescribe or perhaps misdiagnose for simplicities sake. Which in my opinion once again (only in my opinion because I'm not really qualified for much else) is a direct assault to the idea of doctor-ship being such a respected profession. Thanks for the reply. I'm not trying to harm anyone... Just trying to sort it out so I can know what I should believe.

 

[davedajobauk]

Have no such worries Connie Sis'
Our Sister Shirley, has a very good [level] head upon her shoulders

Emotions, are a tad 'awkward' to wrap up sensibly [in anyone!]

dave

 

[davedajobauk]

Dave, opinion of what.. the doctor's or mine or both?
I think that some drugs could be used to help.
I certainly could have used something to calm me after tramatic events.
I remember my mom giving me half of one of her valium
after I caught my husband (now ex-husband) cheating.
It helped me get to sleep that night. I was a mess.
However, lifelong dependency on the drug would have been tragic (in my opinion anyway).
I guess we agree (maybe) that doctors often over-prescribe
or perhaps misdiagnose for simplicities sake.
Which in my opinion once again
(only in my opinion because I'm not really qualified for much else)
is a direct assault to the idea of doctor-ship being such a respected profession.
Thanks for the reply. I'm not trying to harm anyone...
Just trying to sort it out so I can know what I should believe.[/quote]

*Our own opinion, [?] can be misinformed / biased by a limited understanding​

Statistics [alone] can be presented in ways that report 'tendencies'
in a totally misrepresentative manner ~alt. to tell lies/ misinform​

On the subject of valium [phenobarbitone]
I'd visited my doctor re: 'fainting/ missing hours'
and was given a prescription ~1 in the morning and 1 at night​

One afternoon, my friend Red's invited me to the pub...
I was short of funds and resisted and thanked him anyway
Feeling, I was a bit low, he insisted a really nice guy!
and realizing I had a pill still to take, snatched up the bottle as I left my room
Two days later, I woke up on the floor of my room... I had taken the contents of the bottle [that night]
I went straight to my doctor and swore I would never take another Valium or similar [and haven't, since]​

The symptoms, for which the Valium was prescribed, have never returned [since]... ​

I agree, that is it so very convenient for doctors
to prescribe 'drugs'
regardless of any consideration regarding competence of the patient
to oversee, dosage, in a safe and reasonable manner​

In a perfect world, they would be unemployed ​

dave​

 

[birdie29]

ok Dave, Just trying not to get kicked off the forum for being me. lol. Right now with all that is going on, I feel like just about every decision I ever made is the wrong one. Probably not the case, but I feel that way. However, I have some things I'd like to discuss but cannot find an appropriate spot on the forum to discuss them. I need to bounce my rather hard feelings and questions off of someone steady enough not to be harmed by any ill-guided whims I might come up with. However, I think some points I make might be valid and should be aired out there in the universe somewhere. (that made since to me anyway) lol..I have in my lfie what I consider to be the backwash of a lifetime of dysfunction and abusive relationships. I have a job that I may or may not be cut out for and I'm a bit fearful about my future and how I should be handling it. I am trying to ask questions here. Be honest without being too honest... Get prayer and hopefully find my way. I'm getting too old to be so dependent on other's but I seem to have found myself in a quandary. My values, self worth, and self concept are all being rearranged right now. At almost 50, it's too late for mistakes. There isn't anyone (except God) to pick me up this time after I fall. And if I have to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure he will... excuses excuses. lol... All I have now are questions and the kindness of prayer. I'm trying really hard not to be a wet blanket (all too needy) but I really do need answers right now.... to some really hard questions. I will be asking (unless I get booted off the forum for asking) ... I worry because I have learned that sometimes christians are very fragile themselves. And, since I really don't know any of you all that well, I want to be careful that what I say or do doesn't cause harm. I feel like I've already done enough harm to others in my life through ignorance... I don't want to do more.

Ps. tomorrow I get paid so tomorrow we try the epoxy solution.

 

[birdie29]

I guess I should add, that for most of my life i've been considered what others may call a weak christian. then family trauma happened and I devoted myself to school so i could be more respected. I got a degree but in the process stopped going to church and reading my bible. Keep in mind that my christian walk was already whiney. I was that one that always needed a pick-me-up and I wore out other christians. I didn't have any friends just people who wanted to help, and sometimes dropped me on my head because I was too much to deal with. Too needy. OKay. so I went to school, devoted myself to good grades and got a degree in mis... for 4 or 5 years I have been working retail as an assistant manger. I'm a nice enough person but don't always handle conflict appropriately. now, because of conflict (which has been why I left the last two jobs before this one), I have asked to move to a new store and my request has already been granted. I'm terrified of being fired and am somewhat fearful that it may be in my future. Add that to family disfunction, my recent lack of self control regarding money and lack of "other" resources, and I find myself wondering if my stupidity and inability to deal with conflict is going to ultimately cause me to be homeless in my golden years. I literally have no-one to prop me up. My mother used to but she obviously isn't here anymore. My son is in worse shape than me but doesn't seem to mind being homeless as much as I do. He's already sampled it and found it to be preferable to paying bills. (sigh).... He's not going to be there to take care of his aging mother so mother has to figure it out... Now... you guys are stuck with me (at least for the time being).. Well, that's enough. And it's pretty much everything. sorry.... but the truth is that I have nothing left but God (if he will), and I'm not sure I'm all that deserving. I found this place. And I'm hoping for the best.

 

[davedajobauk]

ok Dave, Just trying not to get kicked off the forum for being me. lol. Right now with all that is going on, I feel like just about every decision I ever made is the wrong one. Probably not the case, but I feel that way. However, I have some things I'd like to discuss but cannot find an appropriate spot on the forum to discuss them. I need to bounce my rather hard feelings and questions off of someone steady enough not to be harmed by any ill-guided whims I might come up with. However, I think some points I make might be valid and should be aired out there in the universe somewhere. (that made since to me anyway) lol..I have in my lfie what I consider to be the backwash of a lifetime of dysfunction and abusive relationships. I have a job that I may or may not be cut out for and I'm a bit fearful about my future and how I should be handling it. I am trying to ask questions here. Be honest without being too honest... Get prayer and hopefully find my way. I'm getting too old to be so dependent on other's but I seem to have found myself in a quandary. My values, self worth, and self concept are all being rearranged right now. At almost 50, it's too late for mistakes. There isn't anyone (except God) to pick me up this time after I fall. And if I have to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure he will... excuses excuses. lol... All I have now are questions and the kindness of prayer. I'm trying really hard not to be a wet blanket (all too needy) but I really do need answers right now.... to some really hard questions. I will be asking (unless I get booted off the forum for asking) ... I worry because I have learned that sometimes christians are very fragile themselves. And, since I really don't know any of you all that well, I want to be careful that what I say or do doesn't cause harm. I feel like I've already done enough harm to others in my life through ignorance... I don't want to do more.

Ps. tomorrow I get paid so tomorrow we try the epoxy solution.

Awwww bless!!!!

Yes, we can all of us, become a little 'giddy' whenever we may have
many considerations 'on our plate' at the same time

Being a practicable sort of person_ you would queue them, into some list,
~according to relevance/ priority
and DEAL with the most-important FIRST

Making Sense, of, 'difficulties' isn't so-difficult on a *one to one basis

*Just as, a conversation with a single person, would be easier
than answering/arguing-with, a crowd of hecklers [?]

Then, working your way through, the list, giving each, a handling method /solution
will eventually permit you additional control over your [difficult] environment

I think your 'state' is OVERLOAD due to 'multi-tasking'

If you are asking for somewhere, that you can thrash out your 'dirty washing' ?
Any member with 5-6 years service, would doubtless be pleased to receive
your difficult details in a Private Message and give you Considered Appraisal
with which you can then compare your own feelings
and gauge confidently, where it is, you should step 'next'

You could, try me...? [ I don't chat, outa class ]
Or, if you really want, A Woman's ANGLE on your matters > take your pick
I have some really genuine friends here, they speak from their heart also!!!

As for getting KICKED ... you should relax in that regard...
you would first be 'warned'
re: your having overstepped the line/ infringed the rules


dave

 

[birdie29]

list making is good.

 

[davedajobauk]

 

[angelwind]

Angelwind, I don't think a quick word of comfort goes well here... I'm certainly not suggesting that you stop taking your antidepressant. I would never try and inflict my own beliefs on another... especially when the consequences could be life threatening. However, I've thought and thought about anti-depressants and I just don't like them. I see the commercials on TV and I get upset. I myself probably could do with some counseling or therapy, but time and money just don't permit that. It seems that antidepressants are easier to come by and cheaper. That bothers me. I will admit that I struggle with depression but some of it is because I have made some really stupid choices. Now I face consequences. It would take an act of congress to make me take a drug that isn't deemed as temporary. I've taken things for acne and i've had antibiotics. But, not much stronger than that. i had surgery some time back on my foot and on my shoulder. The doctor prescribed pain killers that put me on an emotional high and then made me crash. I stopped taking them on about the third day because I found them dangerous (for me). I caught myself wanting a pill, not because of pain but because the one I had taken before had worn off. I felt euphoric shortly after taking the pill.

After my mom died (three or four years ago) (time has become a blur for me.. lol), I used aroma therapy of my own to deal with it. Lavender scents around the house and in the bath, and "sleepy-time extra" herbal tea at night. I still use the sleepy-time tea on occasion and I am wholeheartedly convinced it helps me to get a good nights sleep. However, I refused the doctor's offer to put me on anything stronger.

I have a friend who has spent most of her life on anti-depressants and she has had a stroke at age 35.. prior to that she made some choices that were questionable and I belief a little dumb. Now she is dealing with the choices and the stroke. I think that in the long run the anti-depressants did more harm than good.

My mother took valium most of her life. then after my dad rejected her she started taking other things. (not sure what)...

And yes, suicide does disrupt a family. It sometimes causes more suicide. It contributes to other mental illnesses, breaks down relationships that were already struggling, and forces people to rationalize away the cause. My mother's was a copycat. Her sister had taken her life (for many of the same reasons) some years earlier. My mom had guilt, pain.. she dealt with it often in very unhealthy ways. She wasn't much of a drinker until the last year of her life. She was looking for relief I believe. She was stubborn and couldn't be anyone other than the one in charge. As a consequence she had no help. My dad is crewel (still). On his third or fourth girlfriend since the incident. I don't really know the lady too much but I was told that she left an abusive relationship to be with my dad, which to me is a red flag that he is probably going to abuse her. (she probably has jumped out of the frying pan right into the fire).. I doubt seriously he is the savior she may believes him to be. However, they seem to be living the good life. My mom and dad were to divorce before she died. Now he doesn't have to split his money with anyone. He has a home in florida and a rather large fifth wheel camper. They spend a few months a year in florida and travel the rest. He and I don't really spend any time together. it always goes bad so we have just parted ways. I love him because he's my dad but i really don't like him much. And, I certainly don't trust him with my emotions right now... He can be crewel and he is manipulative. He's old school so in his eyes it's all about him, simply because he's the man of the house. We (us women) simply exist for him. I've been single for a very long time. So, me serving a man or sacrificing my life or happiness for one isn't something I do too willingly. (I really am sorry about that if that offends someone.. I'm so afraid my beliefs might....????) I may tend to be a tad self centered, but I do not want to inflict harm. I hope that made since to someone... ((????)).
Hugs angelwind.. I would never want you to do something just because I said so...

I'm fine birdie...I had lots of arguments with myself over the prozac...I am just at peace with using it...feel like I am normal, whatever that is...

My dad just mostly ignored me...he has been gone 20 years now and mom just screamed at me till I got married...virbal abuse is difficult to understand...I never got hit...but the words were devestating.

ps...my mom died 6 months after my dad...I miss her the most.

 

[davedajobauk]

God, made-everything
God made everything available
God gave us minds and, the will to choose our path
We do not see signposts... but, 'His word is, love'

For ourselves and for others [?]

Whatever it takes ? versus, Man's rules/ limits/ moods [?] which, over time
are about as stable as the mouthings of politicians [?]

What is unchanging, is, His promise.... "Come to me" "Suffer the children to come unto me"

Father, forgive us, we are coming \o/




your Bro'
dave

 

[birdie29]

oooh look everyone I made an avatar... I'm so proud.

 

[servant of Merciful Love]

God, made-everything
God made everything available
God gave us minds and, the will to choose our path
We do not see signposts... but, 'His word is, love'
For ourselves and for others [?]
Whatever it takes ? versus, Man's rules/ limits/ moods [?] which, over time
are about as stable as the mouthings of politicians [?]
What is unchanging, is, His promise.... "Come to me" "Suffer the children to come unto me"
Father, forgive us, we are coming \o/
your Bro'
dave

oooh look everyone I made an avatar... I'm so proud.

good job; looks cute!

Be sure to check out the Character Dress-up Contests
They are a lot of fun, and you get great ideas from the old contests!

*The Cf Dollies have a bigger variety to choose from to personalize the dolls, their clothes etc
Check out ALL the catagories to see the scope...there is a lot to choose from.

 

[birdie29]

hey, I spent real points or something on that. I almost accidentally erased it.. Not sure how that happened... Well, i have errands to run and I'm off doing that. I'm in good spirits today even though it is cold cold cold outside. It was 60 degrees until I got four days off and then the weather dropped to below freezing. it will be in the teens tonight... NOT FAIR

 

[davedajobauk]

I'm in good spirits today even though it is cold cold cold outside.
It was 60 degrees until I got four days off
and then the weather dropped to below freezing.
it will be in the teens tonight... NOT FAIR

I recall my school-days were, mostly like-that
Fine and warm all week while in school, and dark, by the time tea was over

Weekends, would see us [mostly] indoors, watching the rain


Awwwwwwwww

 

[birdie29]

yuck